[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] Fights for type 8 (male) and 9 (female) relationship

[PersusLair]

Hello! I've been seeing a type 8 man for a year and a half now...and we love each other very deeply and rather sub-consciously, it's a surprise to both of us that we keep growing together. We have super strong passion and it's actually been extremely transformative - we're both of the SX instinctual stacking.

But our larger disagreements have been TOUGH. Most often it begins with me inadvertently stepping on his toes, insulted something sacred to him. He's often extremely gracious, but if he's under stress he can react in a manner (feels like to me) rather harshly => I go straight into stiff/flight mode right when he's needing me the most to tell him that I care and will take his needs into consideration. When I don't react the way he needs...well it all goes quickly downhill from there and he's in fight mode, he says very mean things that he often doesn't remember afterwards. All my instincts try to smooth things over and harmonize...but this backfires and is often received as an affront, he sees the worst in what I say (even though I'm often resisting saying anything which also doesn't work.....I'm also of course left feeling resentful at being invisible).

We're both very understanding people but these bouts feel horrible! I've broken up a few times after one of these incidents, yet there is something extremely magnetic between us (me INFJ, him ENFP) and once I slam on the breaks, we somehow wind up really liking each other again - almost instantly. We both yearn for more stability and I haven't wanted to live together until I can have some idea of how to weather these disagreements. I also haven't been able to communicate that for me the problem is not about the individual topics but rather how we're unable to work through them and teach each other. I think for him, it is the individual topics but he just decides to let it go. I would never want to hurt him but need patience and help to learn his sensitivities => most of my friends are sensitive 4s or 9s and so it's hard for me to see and honor his vulnerable parts when they're almost only revealed in these times of anger.

Does anyone have suggestions of how a proper fight might look between an 8 and a 9? I've tried letting out my own anger but that seriously didn't work so I do feel a bit like damned if I do and damned if I don't. When my nervous system is triggered, well I'm not sure if it'd be possible for me to switch to a warm reassurance when I feel like I've been semi-attacked. I'm beginning to feel like we are inevitable though and I need to learn how to come up with strategies to deal with this difference. I'd love any ideas!!??! Thanks

 

[misfortuneteller]

You're going to have say which wing you are. The 9w8 could take on the 8 but the 9w1 would probably ignore the issues and cower, possibly. I clash with 8s too much to consider going out with one. They often find it bewildering that someone that seemed passive can become so aggressive when pushed and I find it hilarious.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

I can tell you how fighting went in my household—my 9 parents were repressed as hell. They would exhibit aggressions that they were in denial of, but that I picked up on very readily. I would call them out about it. I would then get in trouble for picking fights. I was treated like a problem child, to the point that they refuse to speak with me because I have “mental health issues”, when in actuality, they probably have even more.

Most often my mother’s method of fighting was to retreat further and further inside herself, while I would try harder and harder to get a simple response from her. Of course, the world reads this as “Mom is good, the Tsarevich is bad”…but half the problem was that she wouldn’t simply say something like, “I need to think about this, give me some time and I’ll get back to you”…she would simply shut me out. This makes an 8 feel invisible, ignored, and thus disrespected. And, it’s horribly uncomfortable not to know the other person’s response.

My (less healthy) stepfather’s way of fighting me was to belittle me, invalidate me, and then—when I pushed too far—do something totally brutal, like throw me down the steps or beat me with books. To this day, he still thinks he’s the victim of a psychopath, and I know for a fact I was.

I can tell you, if the arguments are happening similarly to this, this is very close to archetypal ways that 8s and 9s fight. Eights want a fucking response—that’s it. They don’t want to be shut out, talked down to, or treated like they’re batshit insane. They want their issues acknowledged—if you don’t know how to do that immediately, you need to communicate that you want to respond but need time to think. Eights don’t want to hear that there’s no problem when there clearly is; they don’t want to be minimized; they don’t want you to pretend to be obtuse or blind to your own behaviour. If something’s happening beneath the surface, they’ll find it. The best reassurance you can give an 8 is not being "nice" but acknowledging the goddamn problem.

Nines by contrast don't want to be disturbed or unsettled in any way. They can't necessarily react to things in the ways that 8s can (eg, give immediate responses). I'd say a real weak point of both types (and major component dynamics between them) is that 9s tend not to see problems, whereas 8s, as reactive types, always do. Denial of aggression versus a hypersensitivity to it.

I am not suggesting that you as a 9 necessarily exhibit these issues per se. I am suggesting that these are good rules of thumb to live by if you're winding up in situations like I did with my parents. I’d be interested in knowing more about the nature of your fights actually.