[Type 7] How to love a 7w6 well

[small.wonder]

I'm newly married to a Sx-first 7w6 and frankly, would just like some insight from those of you who are that type, and/or have a loved one that is! I quite understand the dynamics of both 7 and 6, but sometimes feel at a loss when he is feeling reactive or overwhelmed mentally. To me, it's as simple as, "take a deep breath, make a decision to move forward in action" and not everything we assume or fear, is true. The jumping to conclusions thing, and hyper future focus is hard for me to know how to respond to at times, because it's very presumptuous, worst-case-scenario and sometimes illogical entirely (while parading as logic). I love him very dearly, and everything else about what we have is wonderful-- I just want to do all I can to be supportive and understanding. Also, he is xNTP if that helps.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Starry]

small.wonder congratulations on your marriage - I had no idea you were even headed in the direction let alone headed in that direction with a 7w6 sx. You are a woman of profound courage is what I now know for certain of you And an adventurer.

I quite understand the dynamics of both 7 and 6 but sometimes feel at a loss when he is feeling reactive or overwhelmed mentally. To me, it's as simple as, "take a deep breath, make a decision to move forward in action" and not everything we assume or fear, is true.

So...from my own experience and all that I've gathered from the experiences and confirmations of other 7w6s (especially the sxs)...is that you don't make it past the age of 21 or so without having developed a stubborn case of PTSD for having been completely immersed in the *ideal*... for having been living life as if the ideal was a reality... and then to have something reach over from the other side and suddenly shatter the ideal. Subsequently revealing all the horror of all that is really going on.

The fantasy is strong in us though...and so we can live for quite a few years flipping back and forth between the ideal and the real...until *the final shatter* which for a 7 is quite commonly the experience of waking up one day and standing in the smoldering ruins of what had been your life...which is what happened to me. <-And I'll still start to get sucked back in. I have the awareness now to avoid the full strength of the tractor beam...but Positive Outlook is an evil bastard really.

The problem with the bolded and what you are either saying to him...or privately thinking he should do because...duh adulthood <-is that he has be doing just that for his entire life. Your verbal or telepathically transmitted suggestion of simply Hey..."take a deep breath, things aren't as bad as they seem" and especially "move forward"...

that's all of what causes the chronic PTSD in the first place. Positive Outlook makes it so hard to know the level of health a 7 has...but I have learned that it's the reactive, mentally overwhelmed ones that are more likely to be on the right track as they are at the very least not entirely immersed in the fantasy. Your advice would almost be the equivalent of saying "stay sick."

 

[small.wonder]

small.wonder congratulations on your marriage - I had no idea you were even headed in the direction let alone headed in that direction with a 7w6 sx. You are a woman of profound courage is what I now know for certain of you And an adventurer.

So...from my own experience and all that I've gathered from the experiences and confirmations of other 7w6s (especially the sxs)...is that you don't make it past the age of 21 or so without having developed a stubborn case of PTSD for having been completely immersed in the *ideal*... for having been living life as if the ideal was a reality... and then to have something reach over from the other side and suddenly shatter the ideal. Subsequently revealing all the horror of all that is really going on.

The fantasy is strong in us though...and so we can live for quite a few years flipping back and forth between the ideal and the real...until *the final shatter* which for a 7 is quite commonly the experience of waking up one day and standing in the smoldering ruins of what had been your life...which is what happened to me. <-And I'll still start to get sucked back in. I have the awareness now to avoid the full strength of the tractor beam...but Positive Outlook is an evil bastard really.

The problem with the bolded and what you are either saying to him...or privately thinking he should do because...duh adulthood <-is that he has be doing just that for his entire life. Your verbal or telepathically transmitted suggestion of simply Hey..."take a deep breath, things aren't as bad as they seem" and especially "move forward"...

that's all of what causes the chronic PTSD in the first place. Positive Outlook makes it so hard to know the level of health a 7 has...but I have learned that it's the reactive, mentally overwhelmed ones that are more likely to be on the right track as they are at the very least not entirely immersed in the fantasy. Your advice would almost be the equivalent of saying "stay sick."

Hey, thanks for chiming in and for the congrats-- I'd say that he and I are both equally brave for tangling with each other, we are both the bucking broncos of our families! What you've said does give me some thinking to do. I should say though, Saturn (my pet name here for the mister ) is one of less overtly positive 7's I've known. He is Sx/Sp so I've often wondered if that more reserved, intense mental thing is because he is So-last. He's actually more of a complainer and more easily frustrated than I am sometimes, but it comes from a place of that very 7 feeling of being trapped or stalled. Haha, he is very impatient and bouncy, but not in a social way (if that makes sense). I suppose I could also say that it's that very NTP version of 7.

That all said, I want to expand a bit on this PSTD-like phenomenon you mentioned-- just to make sure I have that right. What you are saying is that because 7's have had their idealistic bubbles burst a lot in life, they are actually used to saying "tra la la" and pretending like it doesn't bother them. Because of this, encouraging them to look on the bright side is in actuality, asking them to function in unhealth. Ohhh...hmm. I quite see your point, but also struggle because I know it's still not healthy for him to be completely de-railed and enraged when little things go wrong-- that, to me, is angry and perfectionistic disintegration to 1! Integration to 5 on the other hand, is more rational, yes? More zoomed in on details, true knowledge (not assumption or conspiracy theory) and slower to emote. You are right that it never sugar coats (like average 7) but it does say "is this logical to be derailed by?". I've thought (and correct me if I'm wrong experientially) that the most encouraging thing I could do is to give him true facts when he is overwhelmed by something bad and is assuming that there will be a negative outcome. By this, I mean that I say, "hey, I know you feel that way, but ____________ is true, isn't it?" or "We know ________, but really can't say that we know _________, so logically we can't know that anything is wrong." Of course, if something really is very wrong, I always acknowledge this and welcome his admitting to it! I think maybe that's the biggest distinction, is that he reacts to a lot of "could be" things, that aren't. Like saying that such and such industry is going to go downhill in the future. We can't know that! This applies when thinking about health/unhealth for 6 as well I think.

Thoughts?

 

[chubber]

Souds like my dad's black and white thinking.

 

[Starry]

Hey, thanks for chiming in and for the congrats-- I'd say that he and I are both equally brave for tangling with each other, we are both the bucking broncos of our families! What you've said does give me some thinking to do. I should say though, Saturn (my pet name here for the mister ) is one of less overtly positive 7's I've known. He is Sx/Sp so I've often wondered if that more reserved, intense mental thing is because he is So-last. He's actually more of a complainer and more easily frustrated than I am sometimes, but it comes from a place of that very 7 feeling of being trapped or stalled. Haha, he is very impatient and bouncy, but not in a social way (if that makes sense). I suppose I could also say that it's that very NTP version of 7.

Bucking broncos haha. Yup, yup I'm liking the sound of this... (have you done that subconscious 'Cube' exercise? I'm thinking of the part where you are asked to envision a horse...and in the end you learn the horse represents your ideal mate. Is your horse in a pen? Does your horse have a saddle? Is it pulling a cart? Is it grazing in the pasture? Ahhh...or Is your horse free of all restraints and is running all over the place wildly kicking and jumping and yet you didn't think anything was weird or unusual with that until just now...)



And yes...I'm a less overtly positive 7 as well and am so last. I mean, I sometimes question the name "Positive Outlook" in spite of thinking the definition does work. I would say I'm overly attached to an ideal vision (<-which I think is an overlooked way 7s connect to 1) and a sense of being pioneering and adventuring first...and then optimistic about the future/future-focused coming in a very close second. I could easily complain all day long as I'm now to the point I pretty much hate people...or at least hate how a small handful of fucked-up people can ruin things for everyone else. But I don't...I do try to distract myself from complaints. But I can get easily frustrated by certain things and it won't make sense to others. Like, I almost lost my mind once because I couldn't wrap a gift <-I didn't consider that as a future possible outcome to anticipate in order to accommodate it within the ideal and not get pulled over entirely into reality which I'm sure is difficult to understand. But there was too great a discrepancy between what I think should have happened and what actually happened. <-And it's worse if it's on a grander scale of what *should* and *should not* have occurred according to the Ideal.

That all said, I want to expand a bit on this PSTD-like phenomenon you mentioned-- just to make sure I have that right. What you are saying is that because 7's have had their idealistic bubbles burst a lot in life, they are actually used to saying "tra la la" and pretending like it doesn't bother them. Because of this, encouraging them to look on the bright side is in actuality, asking them to function in unhealth. Ohhh...hmm. I quite see your point, but also struggle because I know it's still not healthy for him to be completely de-railed and enraged when little things go wrong-- that, to me, is angry and perfectionistic disintegration to 1! Integration to 5 on the other hand, is more rational, yes? More zoomed in on details, true knowledge (not assumption or conspiracy theory) and slower to emote.

When reality breaks through and threatens us...the reactions are intense because e1 "something bad happened that should not have happened" <-but we now also connect with e5 negatively as in "nothing matters, nothing is meaningful"'



^^I need to come back to this but am going to p ost so I don't lose it.

 

[Starry]

That all said, I want to expand a bit on this PSTD-like phenomenon you mentioned-- just to make sure I have that right. What you are saying is that because 7's have had their idealistic bubbles burst a lot in life, they are actually used to saying "tra la la" and pretending like it doesn't bother them. Because of this, encouraging them to look on the bright side is in actuality, asking them to function in unhealth. Ohhh...hmm. I quite see your point, but also struggle because I know it's still not healthy for him to be completely de-railed and enraged when little things go wrong-- that, to me, is angry and perfectionistic disintegration to 1! Integration to 5 on the other hand, is more rational, yes? More zoomed in on details, true knowledge (not assumption or conspiracy theory) and slower to emote. You are right that it never sugar coats (like average 7) but it does say "is this logical to be derailed by?". I've thought (and correct me if I'm wrong experientially) that the most encouraging thing I could do is to give him true facts when he is overwhelmed by something bad and is assuming that there will be a negative outcome. By this, I mean that I say, "hey, I know you feel that way, but ____________ is true, isn't it?" or "We know ________, but really can't say that we know _________, so logically we can't know that anything is wrong." Of course, if something really is very wrong, I always acknowledge this and welcome his admitting to it! I think maybe that's the biggest distinction, is that he reacts to a lot of "could be" things, that aren't. Like saying that such and such industry is going to go downhill in the future. We can't know that! This applies when thinking about health/unhealth for 6 as well I think.

Thoughts?

Ok so let's see here...

There will be what I imagine looks like 'different degrees of the same behavior/state' from the outside. There will most likely be times when he seems anxious and is expressing uncertainty about some occurrence that has either happened or will soon happen <-And here...I think helping him put things into perspective with facts is perfect and should work quite effectively. He will appreciate this greatly...this is like a grounding which we so often need.

There will also most likely be times when he's flipping-out/angry/super negative/being extreme in some way...and yah. Have you ever tried the "let's put things into perspective with facts" thing here? I can almost hear Ne in this state saying "Oh you wanna go facts? you wanna piece of this?"

^^I'm not the best at explaining this but when we are here...we are in a space that we allowed ourselves to forget exists. And we are not only angry at having allowed ourselves to forget it exists...we are also angry to rediscover it exists at all because we don't believe it should in the first place. It's like we've suddenly become mortal and are left out in the cold in a world we don't recognize and very soon now the deprivation will begin. <-But there's also a part of us that doesn't want to forget about this place either...we don't want to go through the 'becoming mortal' part yet again due to the pain of it...but we also know on some level that our health is dependent on figuring out how to make this terrible space not so terrible. <-So we can be unknowingly resistant to attempts to pull us out with encouraging words, attempts to put things into perspective... that's the hearing "stay sick" I mentioned. We kinda know we're headed to "stay sick". We are the Undefeated World Champions of "Everything's going to be okay...make a decision and move forward" and doing that always brings us back here.


What has worked for me (not that this will work for him but I've used it successfully on other Ne dom 7s)...is when friends, family, partners meet me...unafraid in the extreme with "Yup, you're completely fucked" haha. <-This will immediately cause Ne to start considering the possibility they aren't completely fucked. Beyond that though...I'm still not sure myself so it's difficult to know what to suggest.

Let me think some more...

 

[Starry]

^^

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]


help a weighted 4 fix so-last out and put the above into respectable, sensible words would you? Thanks