[Type 9] Power Complex?

[Obfuscate]

I know 9's supposed to have a power complex or something but that just doesn't strike me as 9.

is this a common thought? if so, in what way does this manifest? i never tell people what to do, so i find this odd.. i don't want to be in charge, i don't like it when i am, and i am struggling with finding a different interpretation... any thoughts (on this subject) are welcome...

post script:

i hate being told what to do also... maybe that is it?

 

[skimpit]

is this a common thought? if so, in what way does this manifest? i never tell people what to do, so i find this odd.. i don't want to be in charge, i don't like it when i am, and i am struggling with finding a different interpretation... any thoughts (on this subject) are welcome...

post script:

i hate being told what to do also... maybe that is it?

I'm terrified of replying to this post because what I wrote was mostly a joke. I do know a bit about ennegram, but eventually personality type systems all blend together to form something called 'common sense' which is always good. (Personally, I'd prefer that method over fifty million different letter combinations in order to understand yourself.)

What I know of nines, simply by reading the description, is that they're not all they say to be. If you say you're calm, you're most likely not calm. And where does your anger come from? A desire for power. And vice versa, so yeah ~~

Problem Emotion: Anger
Decision: Always being peaceful and not rocking the boat allows you to survive and be loved.

I'm going off this. I had to do some research before I replied so I wouldn't look like an idiot, lol. Anger makes you a powerful person, but not in a good way. You'd be surprised how much hold anger can possess when it comes to people.

Also this:

Often the strong silent type, you have the power of patience, persistence and resistance. You see yourself as having stamina and take pride in your ability to endure. You tend to procrastinate and take longer than others to make up your mind. When you do make a decision, you are like an unstoppable elephant

And just a combination of things I've read on other forums, in the ennegram type theory section. Don't yell at me.

Enneagram type nine really just reminds me of the INFJ. Totally nice and serious, earnest and sweet, but willing to fucking kill you if you betray them. Peace comes with a price, is all I'm trying to say man.

9 - Positive outlook. People like them and they never worry about anything.

Also if this is how you were perceived, wouldn't you think a natural inclination toward 'power' would develop?

 

[erg]

That sounds more like an 8 than a 9.

 

[Ursa]

9s? Power complexes? Nah.

i hate being told what to do also... maybe that is it?

That's probably it. 9s at worst are viciously obstinate. Rock the boat, change something or present them with a scenario in which they have to make a choice, and they turn into real pills. The most stubborn I've seen a 9 is when one of them blew a fuse and started yelling at others to stop caring so much and then they could enjoy some peace of mind. It was a illuminating moment of projection of 9 fears.

9s aren't power players. They don't push or shove, and don't want to be pushed or shoved.

 

[Merced]

Eights: "I want the power."
Nines: "Everyone but me should have the power."
Ones: "I decide who gets the power."

 

[ceecee]

9s? Power complexes? Nah.



That's probably it. 9s at worst are viciously obstinate. Rock the boat, change something or present them with a scenario in which they have to make a choice, and they turn into real pills. The most stubborn I've seen a 9 is when one of them blew a fuse and started yelling at others to stop caring so much and then they could enjoy some peace of mind. It was a illuminating moment of projection of 9 fears.

9s aren't power players. They don't push or shove, and don't want to be pushed or shoved.

I agree. Put a 9 on the same level as an 8 and see what the anger looks like. 9's have moments of no shit man, when they direct deep, seething, building over a period of time anger at someone who has it coming. And they almost always feel better after because to them, they see it as righteousness. Not the more healthy, less fearful action that it really is. Fuck harmony! But trying to get most of them to understand that is futile.

8's see the same scenario as...a Tuesday.

 

[Obfuscate]

I'm terrified of replying to this post because what I wrote was mostly a joke. I do know a bit about ennegram, but eventually personality type systems all blend together to form something called 'common sense' which is always good. (Personally, I'd prefer that method over fifty million different letter combinations in order to understand yourself.)

What I know of nines, simply by reading the description, is that they're not all they say to be. If you say you're calm, you're most likely not calm. And where does your anger come from? A desire for power. And vice versa, so yeah ~~


I'm going off this. I had to do some research before I replied so I wouldn't look like an idiot, lol. Anger makes you a powerful person, but not in a good way. You'd be surprised how much hold anger can possess when it comes to people.

Also this:

And just a combination of things I've read on other forums, in the ennegram type theory section. Don't yell at me.

Enneagram type nine really just reminds me of the INFJ. Totally nice and serious, earnest and sweet, but willing to fucking kill you if you betray them. Peace comes with a price, is all I'm trying to say man.


Also if this is how you were perceived, wouldn't you think a natural inclination toward 'power' would develop?

you can relax! =) there was no malice in my question... i was genuinely curious, and not insulted in the slightest... to be honest, i am happy someone responded because i really wasn't able to make heads or tails of that...

when it comes to anger i tend to feel very little... once i do feel angry i tend to cut off communication until i feel more composed... when i am unable/unwilling to do that, i can blow up on someone in a very extreme manner... this happens once every 3-6 years (though not at all as a child)... i sometimes hold a grudge if an offense was particularly grievous, but in most cases i am able to find a way to either shoulder the blame or share it (this is an internal process)... the only thing that really gets me mad (automatically) is Knowing that someone is Trying to make me mad... it's a really stupid attitude to have (on my part); it gives them what they want... part of me thinks "what an asshole... there is no reason for this, they are just being a prick to be a prick"... it all sort of cascades from there... guilt trips from people i love can get under my skin if they won't let up... anyhow, i think that is all i can think of that really makes me mad...

anyhow, thanks for taking the time to reply (and research)... i genuinely appreciate it =) ... i don't agree with your points (concerning myself at least), but you've given me things to research...

 

[Obfuscate]

I agree. Put a 9 on the same level as an 8 and see what the anger looks like. 9's have moments of no shit man, when they direct deep, seething, building over a period of time anger at someone who has it coming. And they almost always feel better after because to them, they see it as righteousness. Not the more healthy, less fearful action that it really is. Fuck harmony! But trying to get most of them to understand that is futile.

8's see the same scenario as...a Tuesday.

that is a perfect description of my "incidents"...

post script:

i do feel guilty after, but rarely do i feel wrong...

 

[á´…eparted]

9s? Power complexes? Nah.

That's probably it. 9s at worst are viciously obstinate. Rock the boat, change something or present them with a scenario in which they have to make a choice, and they turn into real pills. The most stubborn I've seen a 9 is when one of them blew a fuse and started yelling at others to stop caring so much and then they could enjoy some peace of mind. It was a illuminating moment of projection of 9 fears.

9s aren't power players. They don't push or shove, and don't want to be pushed or shoved.

This is why I don't relate to 9's at all, because this is the literal opposite of me .

 

[skimpit]

I just reply to notifications in chronological order (mostly) and I'd forgotten I'd posted here at all.

I honestly don't care if you agree with me as long as what I said made logical sense and could be considered an argument, because for all my passion and opinion, what I say is never logical unless I make it so.

Happy researching, sir (?? @ obfuscate).

EDIT: Oh, you started this thread because of me? When I clicked to reply to this, I thought it was in the enneagram thread still! Eep, wow I feel special. Lol I'm embarrassed tho haha

 

[erg]

I read somewhere that if you don't control nines, you end up being controlled by them. So awbro might be on to something.

 

[Gone]

I'm mostly with [MENTION=29287]Obfuscate[/MENTION] here, but [MENTION=29921]awbro[/MENTION] makes some very interesting points.

If you don't mind me adding a few personal experiences...

What I know of nines, simply by reading the description, is that they're not all they say to be. If you say you're calm, you're most likely not calm. And where does your anger come from? A desire for power. And vice versa, so yeah ~~

This is true, at least for me. A very good friend who is an exceptional observer once told me that on the surface I'm a very bland person, but everybody likes me quite well because they can project just about everything on me. I'll be whatever they want me to. That's not intentional at all, it just... happens somehow, and I never would have noticed myself.
The perceived image has not much in common with what lies beneath. And people are always, always surprised if they get to know something new about me, even the most random, unimportant and stupid things, such as me liking a particular band, even though my general preference in music must have been known at that time... poor girl was nearly personally offended because she couldn't imagine that at all.
I have become much more open since that comment, that was a real eye opener. To some degree it's still true though, nobody needs to know everything. I just stopped actively enforcing the perceptions of other people for the most part.
I still lie a lot about my emotional state though. It's easier that way.
There's a saying in german, "du darfst zwar alles essen, aber nicht alles wissen", meaning you are allowed to eat everything but not to know everything. Tongue-in-cheek reaction to someone asking too much questions. Does an equivalent saying exist in english? Either way, I like that one a lot. (I got it a lot, too...) I'm a secret hoarder. Secrets are power. I rarely do anything with them but it feels good knowing them. It's the same with power in general, I like having it, I just don't like doing anything with it, neither using nor abusing. Just the knowledge that I would be able to do something... that's enough.

Oh dear. Another lie. I absolutely love fucking things up greatly if you actually manage to anger me enough. See how good I am at this shit? I am fooling myself and I only noticed on the fourth reread. And this is why I don't recommend giving me power of any sort.

Enneagram type nine really just reminds me of the INFJ. Totally nice and serious, earnest and sweet, but willing to fucking kill you if you betray them. Peace comes with a price, is all I'm trying to say man.

Naaaah. I'd never kill anybody. I'd totally watch you die though.

Oh alright alright. I might just want to destroy everything that's dear to you if you go too far. That could happen. It's happens really really rarely though, no worries.

Can I add an extra like for that last sentence?

9 - Positive outlook. People like them and they never worry about anything.

Also if this is how you were perceived, wouldn't you think a natural inclination toward 'power' would develop?

I don't think I get the causal relation? You mean, no worries --> no conscience --> perfect ruthless leader? plus being well liked never hurts. (mostly kidding, but... yeah?)

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The E9 I knew was not controlling about most things in the external world. He didn't try to control what other people did, but within his own sphere of existence, he wouldn't/couldn't compromise with the outside world. He used "plausible deniability" and avoidance to a great extent. He was an INTP who grew up with an extremely assertive ESFJ (possibly ESTJ) mother who did many wonderful charitable projects, but would recruit others into her project regardless of their choice about it. He learned a lot of avoidance strategies with her. There was absolutely no way for outside people to control him, which on the one hand was good for him that he could compensate for those external pressures, but it also resulted in an inability to compromise. His personal control was rooted in apathy, avoidance, and plausible deniability. It was absolutely the most extremely passive form of passive-aggression I have ever seen - although I can understand the reason behind the coping strategies.

What I know of nines, simply by reading the description, is that they're not all they say to be. If you say you're calm, you're most likely not calm. And where does your anger come from? A desire for power. And vice versa, so yeah ~~

The one I knew was honest-to-god calm. I did see him when he was upset, and it was extremely rare, but it wasn't the regular sort of upset. It was exasperation at the illogical or irrational. His apathy ran so deep that I couldn't tell if there was emotion left beneath it, and I observed very carefully.

 

[skimpit]

I have become much more open since that comment, that was a real eye opener. To some degree it's still true though, nobody needs to know everything. I just stopped actively enforcing the perceptions of other people for the most part.

Well that's the thing. Why do you have to keep secrets? Secrets are only powerful to a certain degree. It depends what kind of secrets you want to keep. Did you smack Katie Marly in the sixth grade by accident, but actually liked it? Which part of that is a secret? And how do you know?

The thing is, if people can project on you, you're just as likely and great at projecting onto others. That's probably why they enjoy projecting on you, right? That's why I compared 9's to INFs, because they can appear to be everything at once, especially INFJs imo. Fe is the projecting function after all, and sometimes it can't even tell it's projecting.

There's a saying in german, "du darfst zwar alles essen, aber nicht alles wissen", meaning you are allowed to eat everything but not to know everything.

If there was an expression like this in English, I'd say it's this scene from a particular movie that creeps me out totally: Turkish Delight - The Chronicles of Narnia- The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - YouTube

plus being well liked never hurts. (mostly kidding, but... yeah?)

You've almost got it, haha

He used "plausible deniability" and avoidance to a great extent. He was an INTP who grew up with an extremely assertive ESFJ (possibly ESTJ) mother who did many wonderful charitable projects, but would recruit others into her project regardless of their choice about it. He learned a lot of avoidance strategies with her. There was absolutely no way for outside people to control him, which on the one hand was good

That's exactly it. 9's want to live in their own world, but that comes with a price. It's like a terrarium or a Tamagotchi toy. It's fun while it lasts, but if you can only keep peace within your inner self if x amount of these conditions are met, is it really peace at all? It's a false sense of security. If people like you (and you're 9) keep in mind they're probably just messing with you, which sounds dark but it's true. They like how pretty you are, in principle - you seem so normal and composed, perfect in some ways, and they want that. But they simultaneously know they can't have it (perfection can't exist!!!). 9's are the bubble floating in the wind. I'd say nines are the most insecure type. If you have to say to yourself as ritual that you are not insecure, you most definitely are. You don't want to be controlled because you know you are good, too good to be true even, and you will do anything so as not to get that bubble popped.

Random quote about war that I think is relevant --:

In a weaker form of determinism, theorists claim that man is a product of his environment-however that is defined-but he also possesses the power to change that environment. Arguments from this perspective become quite intricate, for they often presume that 'mankind' as a whole is subject to inexorable forces that prompt him to wage war, but that some people's acts-those of the observers, philosophers, scientists-are not as determined, for they possess the intellectual ability to perceive

I'd compare a nine to a time bomb, or those things in Finding Nemo that almost explode the fishes - the underwater bombs??

 

[Obfuscate]

The E9 I knew was not controlling about most things in the external world. He didn't try to control what other people did, but within his own sphere of existence, he wouldn't/couldn't compromise with the outside world. He used "plausible deniability" and avoidance to a great extent.

There was absolutely no way for outside people to control him, which on the one hand was good for him that he could compensate for those external pressures, but it also resulted in an inability to compromise. His personal control was rooted in apathy, avoidance, and plausible deniability. It was absolutely the most extremely passive form of passive-aggression I have ever seen - although I can understand the reason behind the coping strategies.

The one I knew was honest-to-god calm. I did see him when he was upset, and it was extremely rare, but it wasn't the regular sort of upset. It was exasperation at the illogical or irrational. His apathy ran so deep that I couldn't tell if there was emotion left beneath it,

that sounds like me as a teenager and through the first half of my twenties... it is still similar to how i am today, but i am more emotional now... what about avoidance and self volition is passive aggressive?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

that sounds like me as a teenager and through the first half of my twenties... it is still similar to how i am today, but i am more emotional now... what about avoidance and self volition is passive aggressive?

It's not a one-dimensional dynamic, so there could be a long, detailed debate about it. My comments here are not meant to make generalizations that imply every instance of non-emotional, calm personalities are using this dynamic. In some instances and possibly on some levels it isn't passive aggression, but in a contexts where it knowingly inflicts pain, it can be. It can also be used in place of argument in conflict, so that the person who withdraws wins the conflict by default. There is a saying, "whoever loves the least has the most power". In dynamics in which it provides greater power for the withdrawing/withholding person and greater pain and powerlessness for the person on the receiving end, then it can be a form of aggression.

On a related subject, there is something really interesting I learned from a psychologist about emotional projection. She was referring to a completely different situation, but I can see ways that it can transfer to what we are talking about here. Freud had a theory about emotional projection that is especially interesting. Some people who experience trauma, but cannot process the emotions, will subconsciously project their anger and hurt onto other people, so that the other person feels their anger for them. I'm experiencing that right now with a friend who was traumatized, and I'm dealing with an avalanche of anger about it, but this psychologist warned me that some of that anger may belong to my friend. From other experiences, I've come to notice that people who have very small emotional bandwidths can sometimes trigger other people in subtle ways that allow them to remain in the position of being calm and rational, but the other person becomes emotional through subtle button-pushing manipulation. In that way the emotionally repressed person gets other people to express the emotion they are feeling but cannot process. It's similar to the trauma dynamic, but is based on having a much smaller bandwidth emotionally. The common factor is that when people cannot process the emotions that belong to their own selves, that there are subtle, subconscious ways they get other people to feel and express those emotions instead. You can sometimes tell based on what is said once the emotional person starts to get triggered. If the projecting person (the rational, calm, but subconsciously angry) starts to dominate the emotional one through dismissal, or even subtle mocking from the higher vantage point of calm rationality, then it can be a form of aggression. I've seen the dynamic online quite often.

I realize this is getting into extremely subtle dynamics that occur at the subconscious level, so it can be problematic to identify it when it is occurring, and it doesn't mean that every non-emotional, passive, calm person is doing this. However, there are people who do it, and sometimes I can tell the difference.

 

[Obfuscate]

It's not a one-dimensional dynamic, so there could be a long, detailed debate about it. My comments here are not meant to make generalizations that imply every instance of non-emotional, calm personalities are using this dynamic. In some instances and possibly on some levels it isn't passive aggression, but in a contexts where it knowingly inflicts pain, it can be. It can also be used in place of argument in conflict, so that the person who withdraws wins the conflict by default. There is a saying, "whoever loves the least has the most power". In dynamics in which it provides greater power for the withdrawing/withholding person and greater pain and powerlessness for the person on the receiving end, then it can be a form of aggression.

On a related subject, there is something really interesting I learned from a psychologist about emotional projection. She was referring to a completely different situation, but I can see ways that it can transfer to what we are talking about here. Freud had a theory about emotional projection that is especially interesting. Some people who experience trauma, but cannot process the emotions, will subconsciously project their anger and hurt onto other people, so that the other person feels their anger for them. I'm experiencing that right now with a friend who was traumatized, and I'm dealing with an avalanche of anger about it, but this psychologist warned me that some of that anger may belong to my friend. From other experiences, I've come to notice that people who have very small emotional bandwidths can sometimes trigger other people in subtle ways that allow them to remain in the position of being calm and rational, but the other person becomes emotional through subtle button-pushing manipulation. In that way the emotionally repressed person gets other people to express the emotion they are feeling but cannot process. It's similar to the trauma dynamic, but is based on having a much smaller bandwidth emotionally. The common factor is that when people cannot process the emotions that belong to their own selves, that there are subtle, subconscious ways they get other people to feel and express those emotions instead. You can sometimes tell based on what is said once the emotional person starts to get triggered. If the projecting person (the rational, calm, but subconsciously angry) starts to dominate the emotional one through dismissal, or even subtle mocking from the higher vantage point of calm rationality, then it can be a form of aggression. I've seen the dynamic online quite often.

I realize this is getting into extremely subtle dynamics that occur at the subconscious level, so it can be problematic to identify it when it is occurring, and it doesn't mean that every non-emotional, passive, calm person is doing this. However, there are people who do it, and sometimes I can tell the difference.

that's interesting... i have been stubborn since childhood, and the older i have gotten the more extreme it has become (due to "trauma")... i'll be thinking this over (off and on) for awhile... thanks...

 

[ThaumaturgicTheorist]

I'm mostly with [MENTION=29287]Obfuscate[/MENTION] here, but [MENTION=29921]awbro[/MENTION] makes some very interesting points.

If you don't mind me adding a few personal experiences...



This is true, at least for me. A very good friend who is an exceptional observer once told me that on the surface I'm a very bland person, but everybody likes me quite well because they can project just about everything on me. I'll be whatever they want me to. That's not intentional at all, it just... happens somehow, and I never would have noticed myself.

Oh God that explains so much...I'm the most boring loser on the planet, always have been, yet people seem to like me for no apparent reason. I've been told plenty of times that I'm "nice", though that appearance mostly comes from being super-self-contained and reserved. I don't cause trouble IRL - therefore, I must be nice.

But the projection thing...damn, is that what's going on??


As to OP, I took one look at the title and laughed - it sounds pretty ridiculous. I always blamed my occasional power/success fantasies on the connections to 3. Never thought anger has much to do with it.

 

[Gone]

Well that's the thing. Why do you have to keep secrets? Secrets are only powerful to a certain degree. It depends what kind of secrets you want to keep. Did you smack Katie Marly in the sixth grade by accident, but actually liked it? Which part of that is a secret? And how do you know?

Well I keep my own secrets because I don't want to have anybody to have power over me, of course^^ Maybe trust issues as well, I dunno. I have a very curious mom with little respect for boundaries so of course I became a little more secretive than is probably healthy. I like my privacy^^
And I collect other people's secrets because, well just look no further than my 5 fix Knowing things is life.

The thing is, if people can project on you, you're just as likely and great at projecting onto others. That's probably why they enjoy projecting on you, right?

You think so? Friend's argumentation was, I'm sort of an empty canvas. That gives projecting people something to work with. It's harder to do so with people who are more straightforward and have more of an outwardly apparent personality. Why does me being projected on make me better at projecting myself?
I mean, not saying it can't be true, but I just don't see a relation there at the moment.

If there was an expression like this in English, I'd say it's this scene from a particular movie that creeps me out totally: Turkish Delight - The Chronicles of Narnia- The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - YouTube

Alright that is creepy It's usually not used in this way though. Mockingly but in general benevolent.

That's exactly it. 9's want to live in their own world, but that comes with a price. It's like a terrarium or a Tamagotchi toy. It's fun while it lasts, but if you can only keep peace within your inner self if x amount of these conditions are met, is it really peace at all? It's a false sense of security. If people like you (and you're 9) keep in mind they're probably just messing with you, which sounds dark but it's true. They like how pretty you are, in principle - you seem so normal and composed, perfect in some ways, and they want that. But they simultaneously know they can't have it (perfection can't exist!!!). 9's are the bubble floating in the wind. I'd say nines are the most insecure type. If you have to say to yourself as ritual that you are not insecure, you most definitely are. You don't want to be controlled because you know you are good, too good to be true even, and you will do anything so as not to get that bubble popped.

Yup. There's a lot of truth in that paragraph.
Bolded: Yes, rub it in
The last sentence though... isn't that a contradiction? If we knew we are so good, would we really have those insecurity issues?

I'd compare a nine to a time bomb, or those things in Finding Nemo that almost explode the fishes - the underwater bombs??

Boom
Yep I can get behind that.

 

[Gone]

Oh God that explains so much...I'm the most boring loser on the planet, always have been, yet people seem to like me for no apparent reason. I've been told plenty of times that I'm "nice", though that appearance mostly comes from being super-self-contained and reserved. I don't cause trouble IRL - therefore, I must be nice.

But the projection thing...damn, is that what's going on??


As to OP, I took one look at the title and laughed - it sounds pretty ridiculous. I always blamed my occasional power/success fantasies on the connections to 3. Never thought anger has much to do with it.

Yup. Don't make waves and you're fine. I can think of ... maybe 5 persons who actively dislike me and holy shit did I have to work hard for that.

Funny thing is, once you established that baseline niceness, you can mock basically anyone without consequences because they'll think you're just joking.
Flip side is, nobody takes you seriously any more if you're dissatisfied and actually want to do something about it.

Pretty sure you're not a boring loser though

Man we should totally open a support group for 9s where we have to tell each other what we find positively fascinating about ourselves.