[Type 4] When you were younger...

[fetus]

What were you like as a kid? How are you similar or different to then? Feel free to share anything you might have written in earlier days (if you're comfortable).

I'm about to start a memoir. In order to collect data, I've started a blog for publishing my old stuff. You can look through that if you want. I think looking through old journals and stuff is really helpful for discovering your type. I've been seriously considering 9w1 these days, but I think after reading my old stuff, 4w3 comes out on top. (INFP/ENFP still unclear.)

Also, what are young 4's like in general?

 

[RobinSkye]

I was always the weirdo. I've always embraced being the individualist, but it can also be really hard at times. It's worth it when once in a while someone will recognize me as being very special. I need a strong sense of self in order to thrive, though, so I would still be a 4 even if I weren't trying to make an impression on others. I have to be able to view myself a certain way, even if that way isn't necessarily apparent to others(although affirmation can be nice).

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I'm not certain I was always a four. Is it possible for drug use to play an effect on ones personality?

I started to have an identity crisis in my early twenties. I was incredibly depressed at the time and had no clue who I was or what I wanted.

Prior to that time I think 9 may have been more fitting. I had always created a lot of art work and was quiet by nature, but not very brooding or expressionistic.

 

[fetus]

For those who have been asking why I believe I'm an NF 4--here's something I wrote several years ago:

"You know, I was thinking a lot today. Have you ever been so deep in thought that you completely lose touch with your surroundings? That's what happened to me. I just lost everything. Like my thoughts covered my soul in a thick blanket, smothering me..
In English the other day, we had to write a depressing poem. A girl who knows some of my poetry from last year said something like
"I like your poetry; it's so deep. It's depressing. It's interesting how you almost portray pain in a good way." I was like......just thanked her, but inside....that's exactly right. That's a recurring theme in my poetry. Darkness, pain, tears. Pain in a good way.
I love darkness. I live darkness. I breathe darkness. I breathe so much that it just becomes a part of me...I'm sick. Twisted."

Damn, that was a lot of angst.

 

[Gawain]

I was always trying to get people to really understand me, and to see who I felt I was. I thought they were always misunderstanding me, be it my words or the intent behind my actions. I remember trying to explain this to my family, and they would ask what it was I felt they didn't understand. My answer was always telling them in a frustrated tone that if I knew how to word it, I would have told them by now. To this day, I still have this problem with my family. Everyone else, from my coworkers to strangers I have just met, seems to be able to perceive me as I present myself. The gulf between my family and myself has been the driving force behind my interest in psychology and personality theories. I'm always trying to find a way to get through to my family. I feel alienated from them on a deep level, and I just want to be accepted for who I am. Not in the angsty, "'no one truly understands" way, but in the way a child wants their mother to see that they really didn't mean to mess up the kitchen because they were just trying to bake her cookies for a surprise. To be fair, when I was a teen, the issues were much more angsty.

What I think has changed most is that when I was a kid, I felt that everyone misunderstood me. I thought I was just completely weird and inherently different than the rest of the world. As I ventured outside the bubble I grew up in, I found more and more people who understood me. I learned how to verbalize my rich inner world. And I got comfortable enough to play with it and have fun with my personality instead of taking myself so seriously all the time. Now I (usually) realize that I'm not so weird, because everyone has quirks, not just me. And I can just embrace my quirks and let everyone else have their own quirks, and the one thing we all have in common is that no one is completely normal. And that makes me happy.

 

[RobinSkye]

For those who have been asking why I believe I'm an NF 4--here's something I wrote several years ago:

"You know, I was thinking a lot today. Have you ever been so deep in thought that you completely lose touch with your surroundings? That's what happened to me. I just lost everything. Like my thoughts covered my soul in a thick blanket, smothering me..
In English the other day, we had to write a depressing poem. A girl who knows some of my poetry from last year said something like
"I like your poetry; it's so deep. It's depressing. It's interesting how you almost portray pain in a good way." I was like......just thanked her, but inside....that's exactly right. That's a recurring theme in my poetry. Darkness, pain, tears. Pain in a good way.
I love darkness. I live darkness. I breathe darkness. I breathe so much that it just becomes a part of me...I'm sick. Twisted."

Damn, that was a lot of angst.

My girlfriend who I also believe to be an NF is almost exactly like that, too. Probably a 4. Very dark thoughts and vibe.

 

[Noll]

I was the hypersensitive, neglected and unhappy little boy who used humor and childlike charm as a defense mechanism. I was the class clown and I knew everyone, in school I was very academic and bright. Although at home I preferred to be completely alone and to do absolutely nothing at all. As I grew older I got sick of keeping the act up, and I turned into the bitter, resentful and pessimistic teenager I actually was who wasn't very nice to anyone. These days I am more balanced, though. Mainly because I now know the reason for being so unhappy, and finally finding plenty of sources for inspiration and happiness.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I've never been naturally a quiet kid, I was mostly hyperactive, talkative and always seeking for attention, affirmation and love of others. I was usually the one with the most crazy ideas and came up with games about secrete agents and ghosts etc...
I was also really hypersensitive, whenever I thought I didn't get the attention and love I felt like deserving I could really turn into a drama queen. On the opposite side I was really shy and quiet with strangers, I think I had a sort of mid social anxiety as a kid and finding friends within larger groups felt like pure hell so at school I usually ended up being an outsider and because of my hypersensitivity and needy attention seeking my peers were mean to me and I was bullied during most of the elementary school and middle school... so my need for love and affirmation were really mostly buried alive at young age...
But I've always been really good at creating things and coming up with ideas, so I was really good at creative writing, acting, singing... those things later gave me what I wanted and needed, the appriciation for doing them so I really kinda took the imiage of misunderstood artist as my own. When I was a teen I felt like I do not belong anywhere and nobody really understands the real me, therefore they will never be able to understand who I am, so I felt like isolating myself from everyone and everything and I lived in my own world where I was about to become a famous artist, while I revieled all the negative feeling about everyone who I felt missunderstood and mistreated by... And I kinda became an INFP 4

 

[cascadeco]

I think I was reasonably happy / healthy, had friends, was still open, was 'bubbly' and pretty engaging as a very young child. Around 6th grade, things started to shift, and they totally shifted by 7th grade/junior high -- things basically shifted right when everyone became cognizant of social hierarchy, being 'cool', who's cool, who needs to be shunned/made fun of, and so on. I then became fearful of people, felt different and alienated from everyone, created kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, went totally inward, and that was the case through high school. I made effort to reverse some of that in college, but a lot of that had become pretty engrained in me and was something I had to work on a lot throughout my 20's and there are still some lingering elements even now; but a lot of the less healthy coping stuff I had developed is gone, or I know better how to address it.

 

[MyCupOfTea]

I think I was reasonably happy / healthy, had friends, was still open, was 'bubbly' and pretty engaging as a very young child. Around 6th grade, things started to shift, and they totally shifted by 7th grade/junior high -- things basically shifted right when everyone became cognizant of social hierarchy, being 'cool', who's cool, who needs to be shunned/made fun of, and so on. I then became fearful of people, felt different and alienated from everyone, created kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, went totally inward, and that was the case through high school. I made effort to reverse some of that in college, but a lot of that had become pretty engrained in me and was something I had to work on a lot throughout my 20's and there are still some lingering elements even now; but a lot of the less healthy coping stuff I had developed is gone, or I know better how to address it.

I so feel you.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I actually thought about this more.

I recall when I was younger trying to figure out where I belonged. It perplexed me that some people had such a strong identity - like identifying as the goth kid or prep. I recall, especially in middle school, wearing a lot of drab clothing as I didn't feel as though I could strongly identify with any particular group in that way. And as a result felt outcasted. Clothing was a strong point of how I felt people expressed who they were. But I wasn't anything that I felt could be expressed outwardly in that way. Even as an adult, I can be strongly repulsed by feeling as though I've dressed too much like something out of a catalog or some outfit that strongly screams a persona of some sort. I changed out of an outfit I was wearing yesterday because I felt it made me look too free spirited and easy going. It didn't feel like an accurate portrayal of myself. I've sort of sought this ground where I prefer to not identify as anything that resembles something else.

I'm starting to think that maybe I was a 9-4-x, but that perhaps the roles changed at some point in strength.

Is it possible for different engreagrams to change in strength at different points in ones life?

Depression hit me at different points in my life, and the first time was when I was in 8th grade. But prior to that I can recall feelings of not fitting in and exclusion from groups.

I think shame and embarrassment was always present prior to that as well. Often for very silly things.

Art and the occasional journaling when I was upset were always dear to me. And music.

I quit studying art in college (my original major) because I began dating someone who was much more talented. It made me question my motives and what I was trying to represent in my art - which I felt was nothing. I didn't know who I was or what I felt or how to self express.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

As a young child, I was independent and confident. My parents had largely let me grow up on my own anyway, with very little supervision. They didn't feel I need help so that they neglected me. I was relatively happy and had a core group of friends.

I was told how bright I was from a very early age and how I outshined my very snag older siblings, but none of that came with effort. I just knew and understood so much better than everyone else. So class was boring.

I rarely got in trouble, not because I didn't break rules, but because I knew how far to go without getting caught.

Other children followed me, but I never tried to be a leader.

As I got older and my brother grew more aggressive in his emotional outbursts, I began to withdraw inside myself. I became aware of my parents' neglect, but felt that they had no energy for me after dealing with my older siblings.

I spent a lot of time alone, thinking, playing by myself in imaginary stories I created to entertain myself, usually based upon dreams. I always had a world of my own.

I read a lot, especially things well above my maturity level, but I learned a lot.

As teenage years hit, I really withdrew more, while maintaining my core friendships. Dating was difficult as I over thought things or had too high expectations or just was looking for quick pleasure.

Somewhere around here I decided to suppress emotions in response to my parents' benign neglect and my brothers emotional violence. I really became a dark person and my friends really worried about me, asking me many times if all my talking about death and dying was suicidal? I reassured them it was not, but.....

I do remember walking one night and realizing that felt other people's emotions at times. With my brother's pain and my mom's, I wonder now how much of my internal suffering was mine versus things I picked up from others.

Around 18, I left my dark side and adopted a ESTPish mentality. It was fun being a player for a bit, snatching girls from friends and then ditching them soon after. That really wasn't me and I left that after a half a year or so.

It has taken 30 years to realize that I even need to recover from childhood.....

I do envy those with well adjusted parents that had easier childhoods. But I was always a bit unique and really felt out of place with my friends and their interests, without understanding why. I suspect I would have been an outsider no matter what, as I was born a bit of an old soul.

As I go about deciding how I am going to live the rest of my life and how best to maximize my growth, I do see things I can utilize from my past, as well make better use of my talents and skills.

I was always introspective, but ego loves to hide uncomfortable things. So many blind spots.....

 

[Kullervo]

What were you like as a kid? How are you similar or different to then? Feel free to share anything you might have written in earlier days (if you're comfortable).

I'm about to start a memoir. In order to collect data, I've started a blog for publishing my old stuff. You can look through that if you want. I think looking through old journals and stuff is really helpful for discovering your type. I've been seriously considering 9w1 these days, but I think after reading my old stuff, 4w3 comes out on top. (INFP/ENFP still unclear.)

Also, what are young 4's like in general?

As a child, I was aware from a very young age that I was different to other boys. Of course I couldn't entirely put my finger on why, but my interests and personality led me to walk around school alone, spending time thinking and brooding over my feelings in quiet places. I was never very sociable, and had the curse of being both very sensitive and prone to temper tantrums. It wasn't hard to push me over the edge. Some of the most important, positive changes I've managed to make over time are gaining control over my temper, and reducing my sensitivity to cruel remarks.

While at school I was a bit of a polymath, spending much of my time writing music, drawing maps and painting, as well as working on science projects. I would be lying if I said I was not always outspoken, as I enjoy going against the grain and will not accept anything at face value. I could irritate more fragile teachers by questioning their views. I wouldn't have admitted this until very recently, but being arrogant got me into more trouble than I otherwise would have had. I am prone to stupid feelings of being innately special and above others (because this is at least partly true). Fortunately I have worked over time to express these in a more positive way.

I am not a good example, though, because I have been living with mental health issues for many years.

 

[Gawain]

I recall when I was younger trying to figure out where I belonged. It perplexed me that some people had such a strong identity - like identifying as the goth kid or prep. I recall, especially in middle school, wearing a lot of drab clothing as I didn't feel as though I could strongly identify with any particular group in that way. And as a result felt outcasted. Clothing was a strong point of how I felt people expressed who they were. But I wasn't anything that I felt could be expressed outwardly in that way. Even as an adult, I can be strongly repulsed by feeling as though I've dressed too much like something out of a catalog or some outfit that strongly screams a persona of some sort. I changed out of an outfit I was wearing yesterday because I felt it made me look too free spirited and easy going. It didn't feel like an accurate portrayal of myself. I've sort of sought this ground where I prefer to not identify as anything that resembles something else.

I'm starting to think that maybe I was a 9-4-x, but that perhaps the roles changed at some point in strength.

Is it possible for different engreagrams to change in strength at different points in ones life?

Depression hit me at different points in my life, and the first time was when I was in 8th grade. But prior to that I can recall feelings of not fitting in and exclusion from groups.

I think shame and embarrassment was always present prior to that as well. Often for very silly things.

Art and the occasional journaling when I was upset were always dear to me. And music.

I quit studying art in college (my original major) because I began dating someone who was much more talented. It made me question my motives and what I was trying to represent in my art - which I felt was nothing. I didn't know who I was or what I felt or how to self express.

So. Much. 4. :-D Especially that first paragraph and that last sentence.

I think the ones with a 3 wing make some of us with a 5 wing question our 4-ness, because they're so darn showy! I envy their ability to be so artistic all. the. time. In my search for authenticity, I feel like a poser if I think of myself as belonging to a group, beacuase I'm clearly a [insert reason my belonging is invalid here]. So I can't dress like any subculture without feeling inauthentic, and I feel weird dressing like a normal person, 'cause I'm not normal, but I lack the artistic fashion ability to figure out how to do something that I feel accurately represents me. Now, it's sorta a non-issue because I have a weird job with weird clothes, so it kinda works. But I still grapple with that on occasion. I always have to remind myself I'm just being silly. It's so nice to see someone else have a similar issue, even if it's one that kinda sucks.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

So. Much. 4. :-D Especially that first paragraph and that last sentence.

I think the ones with a 3 wing make some of us with a 5 wing question our 4-ness, because they're so darn showy! I envy their ability to be so artistic all. the. time. In my search for authenticity, I feel like a poser if I think of myself as belonging to a group, beacuase I'm clearly a [insert reason my belonging is invalid here]. So I can't dress like any subculture without feeling inauthentic, and I feel weird dressing like a normal person, 'cause I'm not normal, but I lack the artistic fashion ability to figure out how to do something that I feel accurately represents me. Now, it's sorta a non-issue because I have a weird job with weird clothes, so it kinda works. But I still grapple with that on occasion. I always have to remind myself I'm just being silly. It's so nice to see someone else have a similar issue, even if it's one that kinda sucks.

Ha! Yea, the more I thought on it the more I realized my 4 has been present through my life.

It's a weird thing to get stuck on, but it is an outward presentation. And I do the same - attempt to dress "normal" but I always have to add some elements to offset feeling like a J. Crew model or something. Like leave my hair a mess and add some grungy shoes or some eccentric earrings. Somehow that makes me more comfortable. I'm classy and weird - deal with it!

I enjoy interactions with people where I'm not checking myself for authenticity. Sometimes I worry about how I'm presenting myself and I despise it.

I tend to strive for the opposite of being showy. I limit my presentations on social media and don't always feel the need to chime in while in groups, even if I have a valid inference. I don't want to prove myself to people. I wonder if 4w5s can have a tendency as coming off a bit bland.