[Type 9] Ask a 9 anything!

[uumlau]

I don't generally get 'rage hangovers', it's more like a slow decline off a peak. I get really tense, and then totally absorb myself in thoughts surrounding that intensity until they peak, and then it all just kind of evaporates. I have a ridiculously difficult time holding grudges, because I can usually understand the whys around it.

Yeah, that applies to me, too.

I've read (and agree) that happiness doesn't come from having no problems, but from being capable of dealing with the problems you have.

Similarly, I would say that resolving anger doesn't occur because of fixing your problems, but from knowing the truth of your problems.

 

[Duffy]

How do you guys experience your connection to 3 and 6? There's a whole sub theory involving the types moving towards other types during times of stress and growth. Like, do you care more and speak up for yourself more when you go to 3?

 

[Enygmatic]

How do you guys experience your connection to 3 and 6? There's a whole sub theory involving the types moving towards other types during times of stress and growth. Like, do you care more and speak up for yourself more when you go to 3?

Personally I'd yes but on a sub-conscious level. When I feel stressed, I will become indecisive, needy and worry about everything (like a very unhealthy 6) whereas when I feel in a period of growth, I become more confident, self-assured, energetic and more in the moment.

For example; I used to do cooking at school and when I realised I hadn't brought an essential ingredient I would go straight to the teacher for support and guidance, doubt every action I was doing and think that no matter what I do it isn't going to end well. It takes me a while to get a while to get out of this state (unfortunately for a my teacher and fellow classmates) and act like a 9 again.

Another example is when I am among a group of close friends/ people with similar interests who I know will not judge me. I state my opinion more, I become more lively physically and you can sense more enthusiasm in my voice. I do care and speak up for myself more in this state. However if I feel threatened, by someone I will quickly revert back to my 9 state and try to calm myself down as well as the other person.

Is there anything else you would like to ask me about my times of stress and growth?

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I only wanna be the referee after all.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

"Oh not just the women but the men too! Ever since the French Revolution all they want to do is overthrow the government because they need something to fight against. Actually a Revolution is the only time they do fight against something..."

For the ones who wanna fight with wigs on

LIBERTE EGALITE FRATERNITE. I forgot men indeed ; those 3 are some famous humorist called "Les inconnus".

They are playing 2 pupils at school in a theatre class, performing the storming of the Bastille with the teacher, apparently out of touch with authority...


Now, the question is : Is the teacher a 9 ?

 

[Hawthorne]

Do you also self-negate a lot? Do you see it as an inherently bad thing?

 

[Enygmatic]

For the ones who wanna fight with wigs on

LIBERTE EGALITE FRATERNITE. I forgot men indeed ; those 3 are some famous humorist called "Les inconnus".

They are playing 2 pupils at school in a theatre class, performing the storming of the Bastille with the teacher, apparently out of touch with authority...

Now, the question is : Is the teacher a 9 ?

From my limited understanding of what is going on, he could be a 9w8 (he seems too feirce to be 9w1 to me). Anyway sorry for the late reply, I have been neglecting this site too much.

 

[Frosty]

How do you guys experience your connection to 3 and 6? There's a whole sub theory involving the types moving towards other types during times of stress and growth. Like, do you care more and speak up for yourself more when you go to 3?

Actually, I sort of feel connected to both at times, 'shadowing' to an extent within the spectrum of 9 to reach the edges of both of these other types. I speak up much more frequently in impersonal situations- and can actually come across as opinionated- if I have general interest in the topic of conversation.

I think that 6 to an extent actually helps to carry me towards 3, so therefore as long as it doesn't necessarily dominate my personality- as long as I am in a stage of regression where I can still realize that it is a stage- and am not 'trapped' and can still see 9 from a distance... a connection to 6 does not necessarily constitute something negative to me. It can help with awareness I believe, to the the more immediate concerns that 9 tries to conceal.

Do you also self-negate a lot? Do you see it as an inherently bad thing?

I do, and probably yes- though again it can have positives as well.

It is very hard to describe. It might just lie in self-recognition of the tendency- and what the tendency is introducing.

Good enough for now.

"Wisdom tends to grow in proportion to one’s awareness of one’s ignorance." - Anthony de Mello

 

[ameeker]

How can a 4 win over a 9 after a 9 has retreated into their shell?

 

[uumlau]

How can a 4 win over a 9 after a 9 has retreated into their shell?

Type 9s are one of the most likely match-ups for a 4, presumably because only 9s are willing to put up with a 4's drama. If a 9 has "retreated into their shell", that probably means the 9 is very angry and has nothing nice to say to the 4, but is unwilling to express that anger and allow the matter to get talked out. The typical reason for such unwillingness is that the 9 figures the 4 will just get dramatic and defensive and cause the 9 a lot of trouble, and it's easier for the 9 to just back off and limit contact.

So the best way for a 4 to undo such a thing is to talk to the 9 saying something like, "I can tell that you're upset about something, or upset about me, and I think we need to talk. I promise to not get all defensive and dramatic. Can we talk?"

If the 4 gets a reply such as "Don't make promises you can't keep," they have a chance of having that conversation.

 

[Poki]

This seems to match me pretty good.

nine with eight wing
general description
Average 9/8s are gentle, simple, unsophisticated people. They tend to be a bit impulsive because of their lusty eight-wing, and they have the ability to push hard enough to get their way, but they back down easily in most cases if others resist their impulses. 9/8 is more likely to ignore a challenge than the more power-oriented 8/9. Unlike the more refined 9/1, 9/8 feels rough around the edges. There is often almost a clumsy feel to their childlike ways. They are like puppydogs, eager to be happy and eager to forget unpleasantness. balanced and transcendent states When they begin to wake up, 9/8s almost always use their lusty eight-wing to pull themselves out of the dream. For them, the expansiveness and energy of eight is a direct antidote to nineish apathy and resignation. When eight begins to pull in the benevolence of two and nine finds the ambition of three, there is no stopping these powerful, generous people. Highly integrated 9/8 carries both the goodness and generosity of two and the deep self-actualization of three, without any trace of pride or vanity. People feel positively uplifted in the presence of such completely humble, giving, magnificent, fully self-created beings. Somehow just being in the presence of such a person can generate tremendous confidence and healthy self-regard. It is not what they do, it's how they are. They simply are Ñ without trying to be anything in particular. The utter naturalness is astounding.

unbalanced and unhealthy states Stressed 9/8 tends to fall into an unselfed dream state. If the dream deepens, apathy leads to sixish suspicion, while eightish defensiveness leads to fiveish paranoia. Nine's primary defense of withdrawal is enhanced by both tendencies, and 9/8 becomes a reclusive, lazy, mistrustful, hermit. In the worst cases, the tendency to escape by going to sleep leads to total avoidance of any kind of real interaction. Bills go unpaid, the phone rings without being answered, and the lawn goes unmowed. Somnolence leads 9/8 deeper and deeper into self-negation, resulting in a paranoid sort of comatose sloth. No one is home in the body, and the body is powered down. Can there be any life at all in such a dead state?

Currently in good state, have been in bad state to the point where I did just sleep life away, everything except work. Have a kid and he really was the only reason I didn't dive further into negative. I had him a lot I refused to allow myself to fall any deeper because he is dependent on me. I couldn't just escape and let him crash as well.

 

[uumlau]

This seems to match me pretty good.



Currently in good state, have been in bad state to the point where I did just sleep life away, everything except work. Have a kid and he really was the only reason I didn't dive further into negative. I had him a lot I refused to allow myself to fall any deeper because he is dependent on me. I couldn't just escape and let him crash as well.

I don't wonder why people seem to act like children well into their late 20s and early 30s: they haven't had children yet. Being responsible for another human being tends to force most people to be (more) mature.

 

[Frosty]

Not sure if I am a 9, have to look further into integration and disintigration.

I'll answer the 4 and 9 question though, from the point of view of myself as the 9. Well really, just my general perspective I suppose.

I really am more than willing most of the time to give people the benefit of the doubt-and this means hearing them out, listening to them EVEN if I might prefer not to. Does this mean that I am going to agree with them, not necessarily. Does this mean that I am going to just let use my... Well-open... Nature, against me? No way jose. The second I see someone just taking advantage of my... Reluctance to condemn them-my adaptability- I shut down. That goes for 4s, 5s, 6s, ANYONE with an agenda that does not seem---well, in my judgement-to have ANY sort of undertone of sincerity-I just no. I'm more than willing to have any sort of discussion if I can understand SOME sort of genuine reason for having it-on my side or theirs... But I mean if well...

Ok I have to look back at the question. I am just going off of my skimmed idea of it from this morning.

Oh ok. Yeah. Give me space. Really. Just don't insist upon yourself really. And I don't mean don't insist upon your PERSON-I mean sure you can talk to me... But don't try to well, force anything particular out of me that I might not want to give you. Don't force your values on me- and don't treat me as, well, don't try to treat me as subservient or anything. And really, enough time of that- of seeing well that particular change thing-of feeling less threatened really- then I will surely open up again an give that person another chance. I will stop shutting myself off to them if I don't feel like MY SELF is being threatened. Openness I suppose. I really am a forgiving person though, overly sometimes, and try really try not to shut myself off to people-because really something seems wrong about that. Most people arent TRYING to be asshats, and that goes for insistant 4s as well- I would really just block myself from them for well-for everyones sanity.

This is floaty but whatever.

 

[Hitoshi-San]

would you say you're more of a procrastinator or can you not relax until you get your tasks for the day done?

What is a red flag in a relationship (romantic or otherwise)?

 

[Lady Lazarus]

nine with one wing


general description

Average 9/1 has a sort of cloudlike softness. The one-wing adds a flavor of intellectuality, but nine is more powerful, so the 9/1's thoughts are not likely to receive much reality-testing. As a result, 9/1 often has a set of beliefs about the world that may seem superstitious or magical to others. For 9/1, this is no problem, because, strange as it may seem, these magical beliefs often seem to actually work for them. Unlike 9/8, 9/1 has a kind of refinement and poise, because of the one-wing's desire to be perfect. But 9/1 is more likely to lie down and take a nap than the more workaholic 1/9.


balanced and transcendent states

Balanced 9/1 somehow becomes more present. Now there is really somebody home, a genuine being with actual goals and self-interest who happily starts creating results in the world. Nine begins to show some threeish ambition and the one-wing begins to loosen up its perfectionism. While such a person is still probably involved in activities that are non-threatening and not particularly visible in the world at large, the results often affect others in ways that are surprisingly useful and subtle.

Advanced 9/1 finds deep sevenish joy in the accomplishment of personal goals. Usually the goals involve teaching or otherwise empowering others. Oneish intellectual rigor assumes real importance when the desire for withdrawal diminishes, allowing 9/1 to risk genuine involvement. Thoughts and internal images finally correspond to actual reality and 9/1 is able to transmit to others a special and powerful kind of integrated self-actualization.


unbalanced and unhealthy states

Under stress, nineish withdrawal increases, accompanied by oneish judgment of self and others. 9/1 retreats into a fantasy world inhabited by comfortably fuzzy generalities and stereotyped images of other people. These are the people 9/1 wishes could inhabit the real world -- wishful, perfect images of real people. Unfortunately, because 9/1 is convinced of the reality of these internally generated images, real-life interactions suffer when people do not live up to their idealized images. But the 9/1 tries very hard not to notice.

In the extreme, it becomes nearly impossible not to see the discrepancies between the perfect inner images and the outward reality. Total isolation becomes the only way to avoid seeing that the world is populated by disturbingly imperfect, unpredictable, demanding, untrustworthy beings. Life falls apart at the seams and psychotic 9/1 eventually may reach a state of catatonic pseudo-coma. Even eating and drinking can become too much work. No one is home in the body, and the body itself is allowed to fall into ruins.

This is actually a pretty good description. Some of them have all these enneagram two elements mixed in that I can't identify with well.

 

[Yama]

D-do I get to answer these too?!

would you say you're more of a procrastinator or can you not relax until you get your tasks for the day done?

Both simultaneously. Though tend more to be the latter. If it's something I REALLY don't want to do, then yeah I'll procrastinate... but never that drastically. Everything always gets done on time for me. Procrastinating is stressful though. It really is hard to relax knowing I have unfinished business.

What is a red flag in a relationship (romantic or otherwise)?

Ummm I don't have a lot of experience with this. I don't know a lot of people and haven't really had any red flags with anyone. Umm I guess if I found out that the person was a compulsive liar or something. Like if they just lied about little things because "oh they're not important enough to matter and it's easier to just lie than tell the truth." That'd make me really uncomfortable. Or if I witnessed them being rude to other people, for any reason, that'd definitely be a red flag as well.

 

[Frosty]

would you say you're more of a procrastinator or can you not relax until you get your tasks for the day done?

I am a huge procrastinator that really often times also acknowledges the 'never doer' in me. I mean, really if I DO NOT want to do a task, I have such a hard time with it. I can always think of a reason NOT to do something, can continuously justify my lack of action by finding some way to convince myself that there was more time in my window than I originally thought- that I can do it at this time, that oh yeah- that time!- on and on until I either just skim by a hair to the bare minimum--- or I just give up on it and dismiss whatever it was as of lesser importance than I initially thought. I enable myself so much with this crap.

But the other side of it is... if something really engages me... I have a hard time letting go of it. If I have partially merged with something, no matter what it is--- generally it is *some sort* of branch of something- broad enough to be interesting and for me not to get bored, but something that has aspects that just compel me to try to expand my understanding... well... anyways, I just have a tendency to be either very underwhelmed or just exceptionally absorbed in something. Makes me sort of doubt my 9ness and makes me considering moving over to the more 'bipolar'(not the condition just the word) enneagram 6. But then I consider disintigration... and that I don't feel like what I do and am is entirely 6ish... and hm... It is why I am still here responding I suppose.

I want to just sort of go on about 9s tendency to do this, to procrastinate... I mean to have just difficulties with executive functioning in general--- well not in general... but would like to play around with this string, this very loose and could be tightened, string of ideas relating to this. At some point. Ill even make a note for myself somewhere... at some point...eventually...

What is a red flag in a relationship (romantic or otherwise)?

Sort of what I said before. When I feel like my boundries are being infringed upon, or that the person I am with is not treating me with respect as a person. If my opinions are just constantly assumed to not be important, or to not exist... then I will probably grow to resent that person. If I am being treated as an inferior, taken for granted, anything that really just undermines my own 'fragile sense of deserving personhood' then again, resentment and possibly passive aggression. Once I realize that I am being passive aggressive or anything I view as similarly cowardly and unfair, I will attempt to talk about it... to clear up whatever needs to be cleared up, and if that doesnt work I will disengage, and maybe maybe(probably) if things change later on and the person is willing to well work things out, then I will probably give them at the very least the time of day...(back to the 4 and 9 thing I suppose- the forgiving aspect...). Really, its a mutual respect thing.I already get down enough on myself- question my own 'person'- my own this that and the other thing... I dont mind if you question them too... but be careful not to 'threaten' them.

Too tired to continue in anything even a quarter serious right now. But later.

 

[Kasper]

For the record, I don't have a "rage hangover". I dunno if that's the NFJ vs NTJ difference. I feel cleansed by fire, more or less.

I'm not saying I have no leftover anger or stress (that appears to have popped up elsewhere in my interactions), but I feel no shame or energy drain w/r to it.

Late to the conversation

Am more with you on that one. It takes a lot to push me too far, but when it happens I feel invigorated by the rage that rises within me, it's hard to articulate without imagery; normally I'm Earth which is peaceful and slow moving, when the rage comes I'm Fire and it feels so alive. It would be tiring if it lasted too long but while it's there the rage is assertive.

How can a 4 win over a 9 after a 9 has retreated into their shell?

Even if everything else I write is irrelevant to your situation, just know it's something that cannot be done on the 4s timeline.

When a 4 withdraws there is typically desire to be chased, to be shown through action that they are wanted. When a 9 withdraws, chasing us is typically detrimental as it feels like pressure. When around others there is a constant balance between own stance and other's perspectives, our withdrawal can be required space to regroup, or when less healthy or over stressed, it can be about shutting down. The former you can work with if you allow space with a low-pressure presence, the latter is harder.

Generic E9 disclamer: Naturally I do not speak for all 9, so this is antidotal. There are two point five kinds of withdrawals for me;

One is about me. It's about regrouping and figuring out who I am, what matters to me, how I feel about what's happened and where I want to move. This is when something happens that I'm unsure of. Those withdrawals will typically bounce back with engaged communication about what I've discovered so all I would need for you is an openness to having a conversation and willingness to hear what I need to say without being judged or shutdown. Simply saying that you are there to talk when I need would usually suffice.

The others are about someone else or an external situation and easily interrelated. That's when there's withdrawal over breaking trust or feeling unwanted.
- Breaking trust for me is frequently fatal, on a surface level I trust just about anyone, however, deeper trust is given very carefully in E8 style of balancing power. Moving past broken trust, if it were to happen would involve a lot of words from the other person followed by consistent actions over time to back them up.
- The feeling unwelcomed is a tough one to break back in for me, however I find 4s are especially attuned to be able to due to the depth and sincerity of openness that can be given. Learning about our relationship with Holy Love can assist you here, affirmation that we do matter can be the easiest way, however for me it has to be sincere and subtle.

If they have simply retreated because of stress then doing light, fun things with them, that are free from pressures can start things, but they still need to do the work to overcome the avoidance.

In short, why your 9 has retreated is relevant, if there are no underlining issues to deal with then the best clue for what to do is look at what your 9 would do, we tend to treat people approximately how we want to be treated, interested when you show desire to talk, allowing space when you do not, keeping things light and fun when it's hard for you to talk, and going deeper when you let us in.

would you say you're more of a procrastinator or can you not relax until you get your tasks for the day done?

Not a 9 thing although we are in general a relaxed bunch.

As a NP type, I'm frequently in favour of open-ended options, which is not the same as procrastination, I just don't get great satisfaction out of endings.

The main time procrastination kicks in for 9s in general is when we are trying to avoid something, it's our special power *hi-five*

What is a red flag in a relationship (romantic or otherwise)?

Inability to recognise I have needs because I'm not screaming them at your face.