[Type 4] 4w5 or 4w3?

[Lunar Light]

Seems fair.

^_^

Bingo, that was spot on.

I'm glad I was right with the somewhat intuitive thoughts .

I realized that with 7, where as I am ashamed overindulging they seem to not mind. It's actually quite melodramatic because well its more being afraid of addiction and not addiction itself.

Right, yeah, I picked that up as 6. Fearing the consequences of addiction (dependency) more than fearing the actual concept of it, right?

You're correct. What is the fear associated with 6 from your words?
As you can see even now i cant recognize this

Agh, it's sort of hard to explain. It's not specifically something that stands out as like some sort of big phobia. It's this overall... like wariness, alertness of "danger" (not just physical, emotional too). 6s desire support, and the lack of it is cause for anxiety. I say it's not so obvious because I used to type at 4w3 and I had never really given 6 a thought. I never crossed it out, but I never really thought about it (and I knew it). When I started to consider fear in myself... it was sort of weird, because I knew it was there, but it wasn't jumping out at me. Whereas anger was much easier to identify in me. Like, from the beginning, I had my 1w2 gut fix right and never looked back. It was the easiest to see, even though it isn't the strongest. Core type can be tricky like that, but once you understand it better, it will seem obvious. At this point I see myself as painfully 6 but I had to think about it a lot and sort through things.

I realized that I always had this undercurrent of anxiety that I tried to fight as much as I could. A lot of 6 descriptions make it sound like 6s don't trust others and place the burden of proving trust on others. For me, I knew it was my own issue, and I constantly tried fighting against my own inhibitions. I knew they were a bit much and I didn't want to blame anyone else. I saw 6 in those moments where the anxiety became more conscious... like the times my mind went all over the place, considering possibilities. Having that sort of quick mind, darting from possible factor or concern, is very 6. I remembered the first time I took an AP test and how I started second-guessing myself and I had to tell myself I prepared enough, I was fine, but yeah. I saw that my anxiety was pretty present internally, but that I'd think most people wouldn't see it.

I didn't really answer that straightforwardly, but I hope you got an idea of what I meant. It's not direct. It's often a lot of things that tie together. For me, I was questioning my ability, and that ties back to me trying to prove I'm worthy, and that finally ties back into my need for support (in the past I felt like if I didn't prove I was good enough, I would be rejected. By everyone really). Hope that clears it up a bit.

Hmm, I don't know your last sentence threw me off because well I actually say things like this all the time (jokingly of course) (well at the same time not?)
Then again, i could see that be some w7 influence.

Ahahaha, you know I actually do the same thing, and I sort of mean it but I don't. Nuances, you know? I'd say yeah, w7 to 6 .

Could you define counterphobic for me?

Oftentimes 6s are described in two different flavors: phobic or counterphobic. It's not so clear cut though; almost all 6s will experience both, though it will vary between people. For me, I'd define myself as phobic, whereas my SO who is INFP and 6w5 knows himself to be counterphobic (cp). The basic idea of the head center, types 5, 6, and 7 is fear. 6 probably embodies fear in the most straightforward way between the three (5s tend to combat fear by withdrawing inward, 7s will combat fear by going forth into the external world, while 6s are more wont to do both).

Phobia is what you expect of fear... that insecurity and vulnerability. Other 6s still have that, but they actively try to fight back, rebel against the fear. That's counterphobia. These types of 6s will probably deny fear, or at least are not as aware of fear in themselves. Hmm, I could try to think of examples later... depending on what stuff you're familiar with (hope you know some anime or game characters or something... could make it easier to show you what I mean!)

For my own knowledge, Is 5 detatched more often than not? and hmm Im detatched but yeah probably not as much as 5 would be.

Yes, the 5 sort of has that "ivory wall" going for them. I think that's what it's called anyway, but they protect themselves by building up knowledge as a defense. That naturally refers back to the self and isolates from others, as they focus to make oneself competent (as one of the competency types, 1, 3, or 5). Nah, personally I don't see you as too detached (though I haven't talked to you in depth).

Hmmm im actually quite self focused but like you said, not as much as a 4.

Yeah, I think it's in a different way than 4s are self-focused .

That's a great distinction you made if i say so myself!

Thank you!

!!!!

Yes, that's very 6 . If you identify with that, I'd honestly say there's only a very slim chance that you don't have 6 somewhere in you. Though to be clear that has somewhat of a w7 flavor.

Whats the difference? Is this phobia and counterphobia unique to 6's?

Well, specifically in that part of your questionnaire, you said sometimes you panic and others times you take it head-strong. I'm not totally sure if this is the case for you, but phobia would be more submissive to the situation, whereas counterphobia is aggressive.

It's not really unique to 6s (really, 6s what most call the most human type), but 6s are going to have that neurosis with it, that sort of clear pattern... it's a fixation.

Yeah when i first got in to enneagrams i think 8 was the first one i crossed out.

LOL yeah I did the same thing actually, though the descriptions always had this slight "rebellious" flavor to it and I could see it, but I knew it wasn't the same. 6 instincts .

I noticed from the beginning how your reasoning and thought process is strikingly similar to mine, so it would make sense if i too have a 6 influence.

I was talking about this with a friend, like this discussion here, and I was laughing really hard at this because you and I were both testing each other a bit and omg I got it and so did you and there was a lot of like, implicit communication that I think might go over other types' heads ahaha. I wasn't totally sure but I got the feeling. I wasn't sure if you would notice that our reasoning is similar so .

so 2w3 core? can you just briefly describe that for me? You seem to have some reliable sources.

Might be better if we could talk off forum maybe? Overall I find it easier to discuss type elsewhere at this point ^_^.

I read the entire thing word by word and yes i think that's how it played out. You're very insightful you know I hope you take pride in that, and if it seemed like i didn't take you serious, it was more that I couldn't accept your opinion without the reasoning and definitely not a personal attack.

Thank you!! I don't blame you at all for that. I can be skeptical of people too, naturally.

i think I understand why you see me as a S too but i cant really put it into words all that good either (yeah I dont know how to explain and you dont know how to explain but i get it)

Wooo haha, I'm glad you get me.

It's okay;; and well im glad you think so and wait what did you not get my second one or something? im confused

no I did, I just wanted to post that first since I was going out.

Btw, if you have it, do you think we could Skype? It's faster for me. These long posts are not too great for my Ne ^_^. PM me your Skype name if have it and would like to

 

[Thrill-Ride]

Right, yeah, I picked that up as 6. Fearing the consequences of addiction (dependency) more than fearing the actual concept of it, right?

affirmative

Agh, it's sort of hard to explain. It's not specifically something that stands out as like some sort of big phobia.It's this overall... like wariness, alertness of "danger" (not just physical, emotional too). 6s desire support, and the lack of it is cause for anxiety. I say it's not so obvious because I used to type at 4w3 and I had never really given 6 a thought. I never crossed it out, but I never really thought about it (and I knew it). When I started to consider fear in myself... it was sort of weird, because I knew it was there, but it wasn't jumping out at me. Whereas anger was much easier to identify in me. Like, from the beginning, I had my 1w2 gut fix right and never looked back. It was the easiest to see, even though it isn't the strongest. Core type can be tricky like that, but once you understand it better, it will seem obvious. At this point I see myself as painfully 6 but I had to think about it a lot and sort through things.

Interesting.

I realized that I always had this undercurrent of anxiety that I tried to fight as much as I could. A lot of 6 descriptions make it sound like 6s don't trust others and place the burden of proving trust on others. For me, I knew it was my own issue, and I constantly tried fighting against my own inhibitions. I knew they were a bit much and I didn't want to blame anyone else. I saw 6 in those moments where the anxiety became more conscious... like the times my mind went all over the place, considering possibilities. Having that sort of quick mind, darting from possible factor or concern, is very 6. I remembered the first time I took an AP test and how I started second-guessing myself and I had to tell myself I prepared enough, I was fine, but yeah. I saw that my anxiety was pretty present internally, but that I'd think most people wouldn't see it.

Same?? I think I see a lot of 6 in myself..

Ahahaha, you know I actually do the same thing, and I sort of mean it but I don't. Nuances, you know? I'd say yeah, w7 to 6 .

:>

Phobia is what you expect of fear... that insecurity and vulnerability. Other 6s still have that, but they actively try to fight back, rebel against the fear. That's counterphobia. These types of 6s will probably deny fear, or at least are not as aware of fear in themselves. Hmm, I could try to think of examples later... depending on what stuff you're familiar with (hope you know some anime or game characters or something... could make it easier to show you what I mean!)

kind of sound depressing, like theres no way around it. :l

LOL yeah I did the same thing actually, though the descriptions always had this slight "rebellious" flavor to it and I could see it, but I knew it wasn't the same. 6 instincts .

Yes yes yes omg, I thought the same way but i realized near as brash.

I was talking about this with a friend, like this discussion here, and I was laughing really hard at this because you and I were both testing each other a bit and omg I got it and so did you and there was a lot of like, implicit communication that I think might go over other types' heads ahaha. I wasn't totally sure but I got the feeling. I wasn't sure if you would notice that our reasoning is similar so .

*Sigh* Lucky, I have no friends to talk about enneagrams/mbti/etc. with :l and yes i know i realized that too. :x

Btw, if you have it, do you think we could Skype? It's faster for me. These long posts are not too great for my Ne ^_^. PM me your Skype name if have it and would like to

I don't have one at the moment but I can make one when would you be down to skype?

 

[Lunar Light]

I don't have one at the moment but I can make one when would you be down to skype?

Oh cool. Uhhh, I'm there all the time ahaha. Any time I'm awake basically I'm there . PM me your username and i'll add you when you make it

sorry really tired so not replying to other stuff you said. we can talk about it more later

 

[Thrill-Ride]

Oh cool. Uhhh, I'm there all the time ahaha. Any time I'm awake basically I'm there . PM me your username and i'll add you when you make it

sorry really tired so not replying to other stuff you said. we can talk about it more later

Ok boy am I late you probably forgot about my existence :'< but I'm still down to skype if you would ever be so kind to I feel like I transformed into a whole new person during that time. I'm positive now that I was a unhealthy enfp lol. But yea I'll be making one later and I'll leave the Skype name to you

 

[ARET45]

4w3 - adaptive, performance artist, political, enthusiastic, sensitive, reactive, can 'seem' like an extrovert

4w5 - internal, 'intellectual' interests, artistic, ruminative, philosophical, more internally reactive.