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[Type 8] Another view on the 8

Maverick

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That's a really good description. It captures the essence of type 8...

I think based on this description, their is no need for an Eight to be prone to a Te - function for example. With an existence based on passions.

Yes because with feelings repressed (inferior Fi) so strongly comes passion. The gusto and excess comes from insistance on the external world.
 

LeonardoLestat

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Well after reading some descriptions about the Enneagram 8 on the internet and from the forums now, I decided to give you the source, I have drawn my Point of View about the 8 from.

It is translated from german and I hope I didnt destroy its meaning. It takes a more spiritual / humanistic approach. It is less about structured analysis and thinking-based ways to look at things.

What I want to accomplish is not to shed some better light on a personality that is interpreted as the "overbearing controlling tyrann", I want to show something about their motives and I think that exerpt fits em well.

Ok here it is (1:1 translation, hope it is readable):

Type Eight
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Live wires
-
Eights are often recognized on first sight, because they are taller than life. They bring their influence to bear and draw attention to themselves. They enter a room buzzing and everybody knows that they are there. They are often louder and stronger than the rest of us. They draw their energy from experiencing their own strength. They are live wires. The energy of the eight is reflected in their gestures, their faces - and it is taxing to others.
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Simply too much !
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If you spent half an hour together with an eight, you want to flee. It is too much, it is simply too much ! That is meant when talked about the "voluptuousness" of the eight. Everything they do, they exaggerate. And they do it in a way, others would call "negative".
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Confrontation
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They meet reality confrontational. For this "confrontational intimacy" others do not have the appreciation for. Their advances are to start to argument with you. And one could think the eight does not like me. In reality the eight tries to come closer to others by behaving this way. And the eight is surprised at the others backing out. In their inner world eights are often sad and they ask themselves: "Why does nobody like me?" Nevertheless they do not change their rules of their game. They always try the same "advance".
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Bad boys
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While ones are sample childs, eights are bad boys. Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting". One can imagine, how much problems eights have with church, where you are told: "Be nice and honest and good and pious". That makes no sense to an eight. The good guys are to eights sissies or cowards.
-
Altercation
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An eight woman explained, she needed 40 years to develop confidence in Jesus. Because like Jesus was portraied - as blond, blue-eyed softie, who looks down smilieing on children - he did not tell her anything. This Jesus was not worth of her loving. Eights need someone, who get with them engaged into an altercation.
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Justice
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Eights do have, by factory design, a sense for justice. They see the dumbness and injustice in the world and they love to unmask it. They want to put mischief down. Without the eight the world would probably never change. One would get along with the dumbest systems.
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Fighter
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One should never try to challenge the eight. If you raise your voices, the eight raises his voice even higher. They love to fight and their is no price they would retreat for.
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Hidden child
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The key to the eight is to see the little boy or girl in them. You sometimes do not see it, but it is there all the time. They tend to show it in their whole life only to two or three other people. If eights start to behave like a wild and start bitching and roaring around and if you want to back off, it is the best to speak to the hidden child in them. Expect it that there is a hidden child.
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The Protector
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Eights try constantly to protect the little boys and girls in this world, everything that is weak and vulnerable. In the Developing World there are many missionaries, who are eights. They are ready to go through unbelievable offensivenesses. They take the greatest privations to help those people, who are in need of help. Their love towards the weak and vulnerable is boundless.
-
Passion
-
So if you try to inflate yourself and play the eight on them, they prick your ballon. But if you come weak and vulnerable, they will care for you out of their heart. At the end of their lives, eights sometimes carry a great burden around. They think about how many people, there have been who did not like them or who they have hurted. They actually stomp on others and spurn them. Their passion is equally their sin and their gift.
For eight this means: they have to overcome their devastating passions and they need to make way for life-making passions.
---

That is about it, thanks for reading, if you did so.

I think based on this description, their is no need for an Eight to be prone to a Te - function for example. With an existence based on passions.

Especially the last part about passions, I can rely to. And I find it very frightening..
There is 8w7 and there is 8w9; w9 draws inward and is alot like the ISTJ/ISFJ, only with a revolutionary plan full of architectural intellectualism.
And strange thoughts. :jew:
 

niffer

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sx/sp
Bad boys
-
...Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting".


I've never looked at it this way before...hmm. And I've read up on the enneagram a LOT. Interesting, and true.
 

Lady_X

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oooh very interesting!
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Damn I had never read this. That part about passions is 100% me.

Trying to be a balanced 8 is like trying swing dance in a hurricane.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Type Eight in Brief

Eights are self-confident, strong, and assertive. Protective, resourceful, straight-talking, and decisive, but can also be ego-centric and domineering. Eights feel they must control their environment, especially people, sometimes becoming confrontational and intimidating. Eights typically have problems with their tempers and with allowing themselves to be vulnerable. At their Best: self- mastering, they use their strength to improve others' lives, becoming heroic, magnanimous, and inspiring.

I think the bolded part is often overlooked by others.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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We need to have proximity for me to affect you at the moment.

My powers don't extend so far as to be able to affect you where are. Yet...
 

entropie

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Not necessarily the most diplomatic way to move someone
 

Moiety

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Damn I had never read this. That part about passions is 100% me.

Trying to be a balanced 8 is like trying swing dance in a hurricane.

I told you you were an 8. :)


Being a type 8 among so many TJs is weird. I relate to almost everything in the OP, but I consider myself extremely open-minded and accepting as opposed to enforcing (well, I am 8w7...I don't like to control). I also am very confortable with feelings and being introspective...the 8s I know tend to be jerks who are too dumb to realize you don't need to be overbearing to be strong. Also, I have zero fascination for the "leader" position. I actually kinda always looked down upon people who wanted to lead. The craving of power is in my opinion a sign of weakness. I actually think I tend to clash with other 8s (the ones without strong wings, unlike myself). But maybe it's because I haven't found a balanced 8.

Which btw Disco, I don't think it's that hard. Certainly not harder than being a balanced *insert any other Enneagram type number here*.



I love the term "confrontational intimacy". And people kid about how I'm sometimes misunderstood...
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Agree with you on your last point. Every type has their cross to bear.

The craving of power is in my opinion a sign of weakness. I actually think I tend to clash with other 8s (the ones without strong wings, unlike myself). But maybe it's because I haven't found a balanced 8.

The only reason I seek to lead, is that I'm afraid to live in a world ruled by the people who rule it now.
 

Moiety

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The only reason I seek to lead, is that I'm afraid to live in a world ruled by the people who rule it now.

MellowMarcello once said : "Most 8w7s aren't (controlling) and see controlling things as a messy business. The 8w7 mindset is to control the minimum needed to avoid being controlled themselves(8w7s reframe losing power as being controlled)."

I don't mind being ruled as long as the person legitimately rised to such a position and if it's in some sort of democracy (meaning I have my degree of power and rights myself). Direct control though....I'm always resistant to that (I mean the president might issue a law that affects me..but it's not quite the same as someone who I deal with daily; and the president has some sort of legitimicy). I don't want to control anyone. And I don't want anyone controlling me. Live and let live.

More important than healthy values being respected is that the populace was given the liberty to choose. So benevolent dictatorships are a no no.

ALSO...most bad leaders once had good intentions. "Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely".


My kind of power is power to control my own self. Which is another thing I don't find in most 8s. I can champion causes, use charisma, etc...but actual power over others...I want none. I'm an ENFP too. I found it hard to strike a balance between being a nice person and getting things done. The only scenario where I could see myself leading would be in realizing my own vision (think movie director) with legitimacy.

I think your statement generalizes a bit too much. The world has always had the same ratio of good/bad leaders (actually it might be better these days...if you're a fan of democracy). Leaders will NEVER be perfect. The SYSTEMS themselves will never be perfect.

Besides, one common mistake made by people who want to lead I think, is that the only way to positively (or otherwise) influence something is to be in charge. It's not.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Besides, one common mistake made by people who want to lead I think, is that the only way to positively (or otherwise) influence something is to be in charge. It's not.

Too true. Everyone has their role to play.

I really wish I didn't have to lead. But for me to put no effort into changing the world through leadership, I would have to be happy with the world the way it is now.

If I can't be happy with the world as it stands, then I must do everything within my power and marshal every sinew of my effort to do what I'm best at (leading) to change to world in order to make it a better place.

I'm only doing what I was put here to do.
 

Moiety

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Too true. Everyone has their role to play.

I really wish I didn't have to lead. But for me to put no effort into changing the world through leadership, I would have to be happy with the world the way it is now.

If I can't be happy with the world as it stands, then I must do everything within my power and marshal every sinew of my effort to do what I'm best at (leading) to change to world in order to make it a better place.

I'm only doing what I was put here to do.

Thus another leader with dellusions of destiny fullfilment is born :tongue:
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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While ones are sample childs, eights are bad boys. Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting". One can imagine, how much problems eights have with church, where you are told: "Be nice and honest and good and pious". That makes no sense to an eight. The good guys are to eights sissies or cowards.
-
Altercation
-
An eight woman explained, she needed 40 years to develop confidence in Jesus. Because like Jesus was portraied - as blond, blue-eyed softie, who looks down smilieing on children - he did not tell her anything. This Jesus was not worth of her loving. Eights need someone, who get with them engaged into an altercation.

I am so glad I'm not the only person who's had this mindset.

I remember getting annoyed as a kid that "the good guy always wins"--why can't the bad guy ever win? The bad guy was always cool, and the good guys always had some preachy do-gooder message that sounded totally sappy to me. Ugh, I was like this as FOUR YEAR OLD. Inborn stuff.

My stepfather made me feel evil throughout my adolescence precisely because I never bought the "churchy", gay-looking version of Jesus in Bible School. He had this thing about children being innocent little lambs of God (and Jesus loves the children!) and then ruled me evil because I didn't conform to his vision. In the end, I wound up rejecting God and Christianity for many years (for these and other reasons). I just have no respect for that stuff and certainly won't be coerced into going along with it. It wasn't until after reading about historical Palestine and Jesus' likely "real" role as a social protester that I became interested in the Bible and Christianity again (I'm still not a Christian, though).
 

small.wonder

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That�s not quite true. The enneagram doesn�t cover the differences, but some types are more introverted, others more extraverted. Riso and Hudson figured out the following tendencies:
8, 7, 3, 2, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5 (from the most extraverted to the most introverted)
It makes sense. The most extraverted are the types of the assertive group (8,7,3), the compliant group (2,6,1) is following, and the most introverted are the withdrawn types (4,9,5).

I agree with you that the Assertive (3, 7, 8), Compliant (1, 2, 6) and Withdrawn (4, 5, 9) types exist but not that they are meant to categorize Extraversion/Intoversion. I've not read that at all, would you mind providing a source for those thoughts so I can read into it?

Though not drastically different, what I've most often read about MBTI/Enneagram correlation on a E/I spectrum goes more like this: 7, 3, 2, 8, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5. This reflects the ratio of introverts or extroverts that relate to each type, not the extent to which the type is introverted/extroverted. For example, 8, 6 and 1 regularly include both introverts and extroverts.
 
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