[Type 4] Type 4 - What is it good for......

[ShereeB]

absolutely nuthin....?
My name is Sheree and I am a type four. Believe me I feel that way about my type.
Maybe in a creative genius you might excuse it but having spent a lifetime trying to deal with emotional storms and inner tantrums.
And very early on in my life before I got a whiff of the enneagram I realised that type one objectives and pure mental discipline was the answer.
But that is pure hard work too and made Jill a very dull girl.
So what is to be done? Can I live in my type and love it without being a creative genius.
Can anyone suggest a worthwhile role model because when I read the type profile I just want to slap it's silly face.

 

[Noon]

Some of the strongest people I know of are 4s - that might have something to do with having to deal with those storms or it might be the reason they can; chicken/egg. I wonder if it wouldn't be brazen to consider 4 something like an introverted 8? Introverted in the Jungian sense; focusing on the internal whether it's their own inner world or the 'inner lives' of even abstract phenomena. Just the inner side of everything.

Strength (a quiet kind), courage, endurance, insight, all in an existential way. They have this way of inspiring those traits in others too ime.

I'll probably have to come back later and repost when I've thought of some who might qualify as role models in a general sense instead of just to me for personal reasons.

 

[Noon]

... The best I can come up with is Albert Camus (a philosopher, so not technically a creative genius),

and I'll have to be excused for putting up Haruki Murakami, who is a creative, but I'm suggesting him because he's been awarded the Jerusalem Prize for the Freedom of the Individual in Society. His writing isn't just romanticism for instance - he's addressed some worthwhile political themes in the reflective, existential typical-of-4 way.

 

[Kullervo]

The key for a 4 is to find some way of expressing these emotional storms, so that they can simultaneously have some relief and take pride in them. This could depend somewhat on the wing and fix. As stereotypical as this sounds, writing poetry and novels seem to be an ideal medium, because 4s are generally talented at verbalising/realising their emotional states. 4w5s could possibly explore this in more abstract ways - [MENTION=10654]Noon[/MENTION] has hinted at a few.

In my experience from having E4 as my fix, it does not lend one to being particularly altruistic. I imagine the best way forward for a 4 would be to master something they are naturally good at (and everybody is good at something), claiming it as their own.

 

[Rasofy]

Writing, singing, and then commiting suicide after becoming world-famous

You could also get a gender studies degree and blame patriarchy whenever a privileged cis-hetero white male employer decides not to hire you

Choose wisely

 

[Qlip]

Or, you could be a badass:
(I am sure everybody mentioned so far has also worked hard)

T.E. Lawrence

Yukio Mishima

 

[anastasiaromanova]

... The best I can come up with is Albert Camus (a philosopher, so not technically a creative genius).

Huh? The Stranger is one of the most important novels of the 20th Century. But even if he hadn't been a novelist, to limit the idea of creative genius to the arts is...well...limiting.

In general, and in this context, it fuels the 4 fixation's desire for hidden/revealed outsider uniqueness.

Virginia Woolf? T.E. Lawrence? Mishima? Hardly role models for 'equanimity'. 'sup with the mythologizing, people?

 

[anastasiaromanova]

Sheree, there are plenty of Fours in all different fields. I know a Four well who's a geologist.

 

[Qlip]

[MENTION=24333]anastasiaromanova[/MENTION] I was just countering Rasofy's stereotypes, and illustrating people who aren't completely immersed in the arts. I think it's safe to say that most famous 4's have a quality of legend, because that's the sort of schtick we sell. I'm a software engineer, and I'm quite happy, as long as I have the time to explore the other parts of life.

 

[anastasiaromanova]

Oh, okay, got it. Good to know. Thanks.

Btw Mishima really saw his whole life as art, including and maybe especially the politics, dramatic end and all...the man was on fire...

 

[Qlip]

Oh, okay, got it. Good to know. Thanks.

Btw Mishima really saw his whole life as art, including and maybe especially the politics, dramatic end and all...the man was on fire...

I'll have to learn more about him, all I know I learned in a quick scrounge up. Truthfully, as a 4, I (vainly, admittedly) don't really look to role models, for fear of being overly influenced or imitative. Although, I am definitely inspired by people, but I don't go looking for people to be.

And to the OP as prompted by above, the essence of art lives beyond things that are on paper and on the stage. You can live artfully. Don't limit yourself.

 

[Noon]

Huh? The Stranger is one of the most important novels of the 20th Century. But even if he hadn't been a novelist, to limit the idea of creative genius to the arts is...well...limiting.

I thought OP wanted examples of 4s who lived out something great through those storms that didn't have to do with creative genius. In other words, I thought she wanted examples that were not in the arts.

 

[anastasiaromanova]

I'll have to learn more about him, all I know I learned in a quick scrounge up. Truthfully, as a 4, I (vainly, admittedly) don't really look to role models, for fear of being overly influenced or imitative. Although, I am definitely inspired by people, but I don't go looking for people to be.

And to the OP as prompted by above, the essence of art lives beyond things that are on paper and on the stage. You can live artfully. Don't limit yourself.

Look into Mishima. The man was just amazingly prolific, could not stop. Like something inhuman. sx/soc 'comet' seriously burning himself to oblivion.

And to the second paragraph, absolutely, YES.

 

[anastasiaromanova]

I thought OP wanted examples of 4s who lived out something great through those storms that didn't have to do with creative genius. In other words, I thought she wanted examples that were not in the arts.

Right, but why is 'creative genius' only in the arts?

See, if the 4 or strongly 4-fixed can see creative genius, or at least CREATIVITY, in all fields, that can be a beginning of freedom from the fixation.

Both for those in the arts and those who aren't.

 

[Galena]

I felt much the same way when I encountered the enneagram. I really needed it because I was all the worst things about the type at the time, but that meant I felt the slap, too - hard. The way I'd come to see the better side of the 4 was just spending time here and observing the others. There are some mature, some older 4s around to learn about the different variants and potentials of the type from. So, that's my suggestion to you - stay and read the discussions about what interests you. Welcome.

 

[Noon]

Right, but why is 'creative genius' only in the arts?

See, if the 4 or strongly 4-fixed can see creative genius, or at least CREATIVITY, in all fields, that can be a beginning of freedom from the fixation.

Both for those in the arts and those who aren't.

Got you now.

 

[Noon]

I think the thing is, 'art' just by itself in my current understanding doesn't really mean anything in particular.

Is the goal of art to inspire, to radicalize, to interpret, to commentary, to represent something important about a particular era, just for self-expression, etc? Because I think the storms that 4s go through, when anyone is kind of pushed to a point where they have to deeply examine or define things, #3 and #4 are accomplished just as a consequence and then in that sense, just your living can be art. If it's about #6 then anything you derive meaning from or that affirms your sense of truly living, can be art. On that track I agree with the posts saying the essence is off the paper & stage.

But is there something about the 4 fixation that makes art itself - as limited to the actual arts, I mean, and without any special personal significance derived from it - entrancing (besides the "beauty")?

 

[Southern Kross]

I've come to suspect that the practical purpose of 4s is to exist in opposition to practicality.

 

[á´…eparted]

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. There really isn't a "point" to being an enneagram. It describes a personality, which simply just is. Looking at it from what it's good for or not is not the right approach and will ultimately just be disenheartining.

I've come to suspect that the practical purpose of 4s is to exist in opposition to practicality.

Which is a reason why they can get on my nerves so much, because I strive for practicality and efficiency. Granted, it only gets on my nerves when it's slighted simply because it's practical.

This is actually a good point though. A lot of the time, people look at the point and utility of something for how they are practically useful. If that's how you view it, then of course 4's are going to look "useless", which is completely wrong. Everyone has the potential to be useful. The variance and apperence of it comes from if it's tangibly, or intangibly useful. 4's are largely intangible in this respect, which is why they can be cast very unfairly as pointless/useless/annoying.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I've come to suspect that the practical purpose of 4s is to exist in opposition to practicality.

Of course, to remind people that life is more than utility and survival, but that there can and should be deeper meaning and higher purpose and passion and emotion and perhaps even spirituality.

This is where the idea comes in that the healthy, high-functioning 4 is some kind of creative genius, because the 4 is inclined to do things which add greater significance to life, and that often involves creativity and beauty. But I think that is also misguided, given the fixation of the 4 and what it takes to grow beyond it. Other types are mostly given very realistic "goals" for their healthiest level, but the 4 is given something which is so extraordinary, and which will naturally appeal to them (and perhaps is set so as to aid self-identification), but sets them up to stay stuck in the cycle that prevents growth.

The idea, instead, is that the 4 begins to contribute something of significance to life, to the shared reality, as opposed to creating things which boost their own personal significance. The 4 is right that something is missing, but it's not within themselves. Of course, in doing this, their own personal significance is bound to be boosted and they are likey to fulfill many things which were previously frustrated.

I DO think altruism and more selfless, noble aims will help a 4 develp and flex equanamity (and I feel it's helped me), because it takes focus off of oneself and puts emotions into a larger context. We handle suffering very well, really. We don't just endure it, but we create it and confront it head on. This equips us with the stomach to emotionally handle the tragedies of others, whereas other people might get overwhelmed or burdened or simply uncomfortable. As a 4, you have the skills, because you climbed that mountain already and know it inside out, sometimes only through tragic fantasy, but it's not foreign territory to you. So it's something you can contribute and at the same time find some balance for your inner world of emotion with real life interactions that are not about your own personal longings.