• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Type 4] Inflated numbers of INFx 4s. Let's be honest about it.

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I lie to myself, but that is my 4.
 

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Would you say that most INFPs are 4s as the statistics claim then? If not then what would you say is the most common type for them?

I'd say that most legitimate 4's are INFJ, INFP or ENFP (the latter more common for 4w3), but that not even close to all individuals of those MBTI types are 4's-- lots of them are 6's, 9's and 1's. The most common types in my experience to mistype as 4's are 9, 6, 1, 2, 7 (in that order). I've also seen a couple of 3's mistype as 4's, but they are usually 3w4 if that's the case.
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'd say that most legitimate 4's are INFJ, INFP or ENFP

I'd say that an ISFP is more likely to be 4 than an ENFP. Most famous 4w3s in particular are ISFPs and the double image focus goes well with their functions.
 

tony_goth

Pseudo-delusional Rebel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
225
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
487
Instinctual Variant
sx
This inflation is perfectly normal, because most Fours are INF types, though INTJ and ISFP are possible.
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This inflation is perfectly normal, because most Fours are INF types,

The point is that most INFx's are 9w1s not 4w5s like it is assumed. I have noticed for months now that INFP 9w1s in particular often want to be 4w5s.

though INTJ
Nah, those are 5w4s with heavy 4 wings. The concept of having a heavy wing and disintegration need to be comprehended by now.
 

Venus Rose

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
324
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I see the OP is permabanned, but just wanted to respond because I think I have seen opinions like these elsewhere...?

aren't 4s and INFx types somewhat more common (comparatively) online than irl…? Also as far as I know INFx types often are 4s, or maybe 4 fixed. From what I have seen anyway. And speaking of this forum specifically, and a couple of others I have been on, personally I didn't notice a disproportionate amount of 4s or sx or whatever (now there might be something to the idea that some mistype as INFJ, idk)
Enneagram (Main) Type & MBTI Correlations – Type•volution
 

Indigo Rodent

Active member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
439
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
1w9
I think there's a big problem with test replies for 4 largely overlapping with test replies for FPs. I only realised I'm not a 4w5 when I've read about core motivations. Like all that stuff about wanting to be unique, idealised self, self-hatred etc. - it's completely alien to me. It sounds like a type that would be characteristic for thinkers, rather than NFPs - with feeling as a weak spot.

I'm pretty much perpetually miserable because I'm stuck in this putrid world with people who are little better than animals. But it has nothing to do with 4 motivations. I'm a 1. It's just that I don't get the 1 result from tests because the description/test is corrupted by assumption that 1s need to be ISTJs.
 

Indigo Rodent

Active member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
439
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
1w9
lol, I was reading my chat logs from 2008 and it was funny I thought I was 4w5 when at the same time obsessing over ideological enemies and ideological threats XDDD .
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,883
If you think you are a 4 and you aren't arrogant, then guess what... you aren't a 4. Rather, you are probably a 9 or a 6. The inferiority complex of a 4 is one part of a two-sided coin. To combat inferiority, 4s elevate themselves above "commoners" by romanticizing not only their defects, but also the image of who they want to be. Sometimes the latter is more internal... more fantasized, especially in 4w5s, because 5 is an inactive type, preferring to know before acting. Both 4s and 5s tend to feel unready for action, but for different reasons (4s feeling that they need to reach a certain level of emotional balance first, and 5s feeling that they need more knowledge, often about impractical/useless subject which serves as a replacement for being out in the world).

4w5 Sx can be particularly arrogant (5 is an arrogant type too, but intellectually so), similar to how a cp6 may sometimes appear to be brave/fearless, and that is because sexual 4s operate under constant comparison. In fact, I think "comparison" should always be used in conjunction with "competition" for sexual 4s because it really gets at the undercurrent of their psyche and insecurities, and even when there isn't outward competition, there is internal comparison.
 

neko 4

New member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
437
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
I can't speak for everyone here, but I'm the most Four-ish person I've ever known. I've always felt different, even as a child. I don't relate to the Six and Nine profiles.
 

Vendrah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,947
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
952
Reminder:

514f2d0ac0445ca8b07bda7c1ea1e7d1.png


And this too:

1200px-MBTI_and_Enneagram_3.png


I dont think its mistyping, its just that more then half of INFx are 4´s or some sort of 4´s (4w3,4w5 or 5w4).
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,883
Reminder:

514f2d0ac0445ca8b07bda7c1ea1e7d1.png


And this too:

1200px-MBTI_and_Enneagram_3.png


I dont think its mistyping, its just that more then half of INFx are 4´s or some sort of 4´s (4w3,4w5 or 5w4).

All of this data assumes that the data itself is accurate, as in the typings are correct. That is highly unlikely. In fact, I would say it's impossible.

The MBTI itself relies upon self-typing, which is of course influenced by the ego.

Until there is an accepted and reputable form of objective function identification from a knowledgeable 3rd party or group of trained peers, functions are really only good for "fun".
 

Lord Lavender

Bluered Trickster
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
5,851
MBTI Type
EVLF
Enneagram
739
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Unpopular opinion but i think most INFJ 4s are mistyped Fi dom 4s. INFJs ime tend to be more 2 in heart due to their Fe.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Many ISFPs could be E4s. Some of the ISFP descriptions sound about 80% E4. Huge overlap in descriptions.
 

Saturnal Snowqueen

Solastalgia 𓍊𓋼𓍊𓋼𓍊
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
6,125
MBTI Type
FELV
Enneagram
974
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
INFP here. 9 core, but I have a 4 fix. I've never gotten why people do that with their avis. If I wanna be unique and authentic, I'm not gonna copy everyone else's emo avi and look the same, I wanna do my own thing. Then again, when I'm picking an avi, I don't necessarily try to go for any avis that are expressing sadness. Sometimes I do, but I just try to pick avis that are stylish and express who I am, whatever side of me that is. It's the same things for clothes-the stereotype is that the 4s are wearing all black, when for me I feel like I wouldn't be authentic if I was wearing all black(and it just feels dull to me, but yeah). It's authentic for some people of course, but then there's also some people wanting that 4ish look. I like colorfulness(with some black here and there), and that's what's authentic to me, even if doesn't fit the stereotype.

There could definitely be mistypes for sure, as it seems attachment types are the most common(and whaddya know, I got 2). Fi definitely looks 4ish as it doesn't wanna adhere to the typical and withdraws into itself to find their true emotions. But I do that too as a 9 first; I do suppress a lot of stuff to keep the peace, but I'm a bit stubborn because I try to adhere to my values. I feel like 9 as a withdrawn type too spends a lot of time in their head processing their feelings because they need to make sense of things. Identity searching would appeal to them too, because they're such a merging and ambivalent type that having an identity would make them feel like somebody. That's what it feels like for me-I do relate to the 4 fear of having no identity for well, 4ish reasons, but also I look for identity because I merge so easily with my surroundings and don't quite fit anywhere(one of the reasons why I like typology so much).
 

Vendrah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,947
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
952
All of this data assumes that the data itself is accurate, as in the typings are correct. That is highly unlikely. In fact, I would say it's impossible.

The MBTI itself relies upon self-typing, which is of course influenced by the ego.

Until there is an accepted and reputable form of objective function identification from a knowledgeable 3rd party or group of trained peers, functions are really only good for "fun".

I agree with the part for enneagram but not exactly for MBTI although.

In official MBTI document, they have one part of self-typing that is the person reading the descriptions of types and one other by the questionarie. In these studies, most people dont know MBTI or any info about the types before they do the questionarie.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,883
I agree with the part for enneagram but not exactly for MBTI although.

In official MBTI document, they have one part of self-typing that is the person reading the descriptions of types and one other by the questionarie. In these studies, most people dont know MBTI or any info about the types before they do the questionarie.

That really doesn't have anything to do with the influence of the ego though. We all are still going to answer the questions based on how we think we are. True self-discovery can require years of difficult and ofttimes painful reflection that requires sufficient muscle strength to pull back the curtains of our ego. It doesn't happen in a moment's time.

Also, I've not ever been satisfied with how the functions are defined/explained/represented in any MBTI. Not clear/objective/consistent enough.
 

Vendrah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,947
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
952
That really doesn't have anything to do with the influence of the ego though. We all are still going to answer the questions based on how we think we are. True self-discovery can require years of difficult and ofttimes painful reflection that requires sufficient muscle strength to pull back the curtains of our ego. It doesn't happen in a moment's time.

Also, I've not ever been satisfied with how the functions are defined/explained/represented in any MBTI. Not clear/objective/consistent enough.

What do you mean by "functions"? Cognitive functions?
 

Vendrah

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,947
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
952

Official MBTI had "abandoned" cognitive functions by something like 20 years ago, perhaps more...

Had you read Jung original concept? I will link the read in the end of the post.

I have my own subjective resume of the idea... I think I get it... It is in two of my posts...

Jung I-E, the I-E used in cognitive functions, doesnt correlate with MBTI I-E.
Jung I-E is quite complicated and widely discussed in whole Jung's work, its really impossible to resume it without losing it traits. However, as a brief resume of my own, Jung switches between using the word extraverted with objective and introverted with subjective. The E in Jung is greater understood, considering its disconnection with MBTI E, as an objective attitude, while the I in Jung is greater understood as subjective attitude. Its better understood and resume as wikipedia meaning for objective and subjectivity:
- Objectivity (philosophy), the property of being independent from perception.
- Subjectivity, a subject's personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view.

Ne original Jung concept, or Ne pure concept, comes from the combination of iNtuition with Extraversion. Its Jung Extraversion, that doesnt correspond to MBTI E/I. On short:

Myers E/I) How sociable and outgoing the people is.

Jung E/I) Preferency towards the object - if attention is towards the object (external) then its extroversion, if attention is towards self (inside) then its introversion.

So basically, Ne is intuition oriented by the object.

EDIT: Just completing it... Cognitive functions are born into crossing N,S,T and F with the concepts of Extraversion and Introversion from Jung.
So Ne is intuition oriented by the object, Ni is intuition oriented by own-self, Se is sensing oriented by the object, Si is sensing oriented by own-self, Fe is feeling oriented by the object, Fi is feeling oriented by own-self, Te is thinking oriented by the object, Ti is thinking oriented by own-self. And Intuition and Sensing are "opposites" of perception, while Thinking and Feeling are "opposites" of judgement.

Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10

Also, MBTI in being just self-typing I only partially agree because it is based on some statistics. They measure your preferences, then using your preferences they form a type, and they gather statitics from that type. From the stats, they build their solid profile. But yep, its still self-awareness, not totally for MBTI, for enneagram it seems to be totally.
 
Top