[Type 4] Inflated numbers of INFx 4s. Let's be honest about it.

[Siúil a Rúin]

Everyone wants to be unique. The irony amuses me greatly.

Are you 100% sure about that? It isn't about words, but choices.

 

[Luminous]

This is clearly a serious threat to forum stability. To bring more awareness to the situation I think we should adopt Emo poseur awareness avatars.

Can you spot the poseur?

You can't be a non-conformist if you don't drink coffee.

 

[Population: 1]

You can't be a non-conformist if you don't drink coffee.

I see you’ve read the Nonconformist’s Handbook.

 

[Luminous]

I see you’ve read the Nonconformist’s Handbook.

Of course! How else could I become a true nonconformist?

 

[Forever]

Are you 100% sure about that? It isn't about words, but choices.

and what's weird is how many people have white cars?

I'm like wow.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

and what's weird is how many people have white cars?

I'm like wow.

The reality is that humanity is a collective intelligence that is incredibly tight-knit. We aren't even conscious of the 99.99% of ways we conform. I would venture to say that the desire to be popular or famous is the desire to conform because it means pleasing the masses or the norm. Competitive behavior is also normative and conformist because it means multiple people vying for the same thing. If everyone wants to be a wealthy CEO because that is conceived of as success, popularity, achievement, then it is the epitome of the normative assumptions. Competing to win at sports results in achieving at what has collectively been assumed to bring popularity, success, skill, and demonstrating worth. Even when everyone competes for the same romantic partner because she is a cheerleader, a supermodel, he is a wealthy doctor, businessman, famous actor or sports hero, they are considered "attractive by the norm", if everyone wants that person and so does the individual, that is a normative, conformist motivation.

There isn't necessarily a reason to demonize all conformity because for some reason it works for a lot of people, perhaps brings them happiness, and has perhaps aided in survival. My point is that people generally want what the masses and norm values, even if they say they want to be individual and unique, their choices demonstrate what they actually value. Conventional success of any sort is not a desire to be unique, but a desire to be the best example of normative and conformist assumptions and success. The desire for success is in the majority of cases a desire to conform because success is defined by the norm.

 

[Forever]

The reality is that humanity is a collective intelligence that is incredibly tight-knit. We aren't even conscious of the 99.99% of ways we conform. I would venture to say that the desire to be popular or famous is the desire to conform because it means pleasing the masses or the norm. Competitive behavior is also normative and conformist because it means multiple people vying for the same thing. If everyone wants to be a wealthy CEO because that is conceived of as success, popularity, achievement, then it is the epitome of the normative assumptions. Competing to win at sports results in achieving at what has collectively been assumed to bring popularity, success, skill, and demonstrating worth. Even when everyone competes for the same romantic partner because she is a cheerleader, a supermodel, he is a wealthy doctor, businessman, famous actor or sports hero, they are considered "attractive by the norm", if everyone wants that person and so does the individual, that is a normative, conformist motivation.

There isn't necessarily a reason to demonize all conformity because for some reason it works for a lot of people, perhaps brings them happiness, and has perhaps aided in survival. My point is that people generally want what the masses and norm values, even if they say they want to be individual and unique, their choices demonstrate what they actually value. Conventional success of any sort is not a desire to be unique, but a desire to be the best example of normative and conformist assumptions and success. The desire for success is in the majority of cases a desire to conform because success is defined by the norm.

Well there is no such thing as a true non-conformist. Everything's been done. From like you said, achieving fame and prestige at a common fame role. People killing one another in differing periods of time. One goes all out. One goes intermittently, one blows up. One self-mutilates, one kills oneself. One writes sad poetry. One cleans up sewage. One.. etc.

Our dirty jobs are there for the taking, but not unique in anyway.

But what we can be unique is in the details we do. It's something I hope that those with more discerning eyes notice in what I do. I'm still forward that I like to be original, but I encourage others to be original in their own ways. imitation is flattery.

I know me wanting to do music on a computer is entirely unoriginal at this point and my fashion choices are made from people who have of course copied their clothing to sell to others no matter how niche they are.

It would also be honest to say that originality is not the highest value I have because obviously, I want a life that is more enjoyable and yes that may have to go through conventional things like everyone else. I want love, maybe children, and a nice home to live in. But I'll paint it a different color

 

[Coriolis]

There isn't necessarily a reason to demonize all conformity because for some reason it works for a lot of people, perhaps brings them happiness, and has perhaps aided in survival. My point is that people generally want what the masses and norm values, even if they say they want to be individual and unique, their choices demonstrate what they actually value. Conventional success of any sort is not a desire to be unique, but a desire to be the best example of normative and conformist assumptions and success. The desire for success is in the majority of cases a desire to conform because success is defined by the norm.

What looks like conformity may often simply stem from the fact that we all share many of the same basic needs and desires for their own merits (e.g. personal safety, food/shelter, having a family). We don't do it to fit in, we do it because it is part of the human condition.

 

[Snow as White]

i think of it more as the 4 arrow seeks what it is seeking because it is what is sought.

 

[Luminous]

What looks like conformity may often simply stem from the fact that we all share many of the same basic needs and desires for their own merits (e.g. personal safety, food/shelter, having a family). We don't do it to fit in, we do it because it is part of the human condition.

Totally agree.

And I would add doing anything just for the sake of conforming or not conforming isn't authentic. Sure, if it's something you don't care about, going along may not be an affront to your values. But if you do something only for the sake of being original/nonconformist, you're defining yourself by the norm.

I'm not sure of my enneagram, but I'd much rather do what is meaningful to me, what I value, without giving a hoot whether it conforms to some cultural ideal or not. I will perhaps consider those close to me and perhaps conform to something important to them, but that's because I value them.

 

[misfortuneteller]

I have been saying for a while that I doubt most INFPs are actually 4s. I think most are 9w1s or 6w5s but are mistyped as 4s because the tests underrate 6s and 9s in general.

 

[neko 4]

I'm a 4 with Kenshin as my avatar; not a particularly melancholy character. I just love him.

 

[small.wonder]

I very much agree with the OP (not specifically about this forum, but literally everywhere). I experience rampant 4 mistyping all over the internet and IRL, and I make a pretty regular habit of engaging with people over Enneagram in both settings. This topic (addressing its manifestation in 4 and a few other commonly misidentified types) is my next video series project at Enneagram Girl, so feel free to check it out when I get it posted!

 

[misfortuneteller]

I very much agree with the OP (not specifically about this forum, but literally everywhere). I experience rampant 4 mistyping all over the internet and IRL, and I make a pretty regular habit of engaging with people over Enneagram in both settings. This topic (addressing its manifestation in 4 and a few other commonly misidentified types) is my next video series project at Enneagram Girl, so feel free to check it out when I get it posted!

Would you say that most INFPs are 4s as the statistics claim then? If not then what would you say is the most common type for them?

 

[Yuurei]

Lazy stereotyping. The term which INFJ is quickly boiled down to is "weird" and 4's "Unique" ergo, they must correlate.

 

[LucieCat]

A lot of people mistype as INFP and INFJ. I've seen these types even legitimately confuse which of the two they are. Mistyping happens. It's inevitable. I have a friend in real life who is adamant that she is an INFP, to which I am positive she is not. First of all, there is no way she is an introvert. I just cannot see it at all. She also clearly has a different way of cognitive thinking than the INFPs in my life. My best guess for her as far as type is ENTP 2w3. My initial thought was ENTJ 8w7 for her. I often find 2s under stress are nearly indistinguishable from 8s. I suppose I could see ENFJ, but I think she overrelies on Fe, which is actually her tertiary even though it seems much more prominent. I have pointed out that I do not think she is an INFP, but she is insistent that she is. There's not much you can do about that.

I think mistyping often has to do with people's distorted image of themselves. As to why that makes them think they are INFx 4s, I don't know for sure. I think there's a draw towards the two types since they are so rare.

 

[LucieCat]

I have been saying for a while that I doubt most INFPs are actually 4s. I think most are 9w1s or 6w5s but are mistyped as 4s because the tests underrate 6s and 9s in general.

From my perspective, 9w1 seems to be a very common Enneagram for INFPs.

 

[Amberiat]

A lot of people mistype as INFP and INFJ. I've seen these types even legitimately confuse which of the two they are. Mistyping happens. It's inevitable. I have a friend in real life who is adamant that she is an INFP, to which I am positive she is not. First of all, there is no way she is an introvert. I just cannot see it at all. She also clearly has a different way of cognitive thinking than the INFPs in my life. My best guess for her as far as type is ENTP 2w3. My initial thought was ENTJ 8w7 for her. I often find 2s under stress are nearly indistinguishable from 8s. I suppose I could see ENFJ, but I think she overrelies on Fe, which is actually her tertiary even though it seems much more prominent. I have pointed out that I do not think she is an INFP, but she is insistent that she is. There's not much you can do about that.

I think mistyping often has to do with people's distorted image of themselves. As to why that makes them think they are INFx 4s, I don't know for sure. I think there's a draw towards the two types since they are so rare.

And you would be correct, people are drawn to INFx and often type 4 because of the special snowflake syndrome.

 

[misfortuneteller]

From my perspective, 9w1 seems to be a very common Enneagram for INFPs.

I already know that but I asked if they think that it outweighs the 4w5 ones. I would find it weird if 4 was the main type for any enneagram type.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Not that I disagree with the overall thrust of the OP. I don't. My experience is, mainly in US culture, that many people tend to mistype as both 4 and 5...likely because this culture discourages quiet, thoughtful, sensitive people. There's a similar propensity in Japan to mistype as 8...likely because the culture discourages independence and open anger so much. Etc. This is not controversial--noted practitioners such as Russ Hudson have openly commented on the phenomenon.

What I do find irritating about the content of the OP is the sheer bad faith it implies. I feel like it says more about the 6 mindset than what's actually going on with others, idk.

Maybe I feel strongly about this because I once mistyped as 4, too. Actually I didn't type as anything for about 14 years, but when I was forced to decide between 4 and 6 on Personality Café, well. Typing at 4 was at least a step in the right direction.

For the record, my own family kept trying to type me as 4 or 5 (I mention my family not because I'm being "other referential", but so that the reader knows I'm not just patting myself on the back here). It had very little to do with me "wanting" to be unique or a genius or whatever (an insulting assumption, actually), and more to do with the actual issues I've dealt with and personality traits I exhibit--eg, social awkwardness, creativity, a love of science, withdrawnness, emotional turbulence, detachment, inability to make friends, drama, depression, being "too quiet", feelings of being different and separate, etc. I find this part even more annoying:

The stereotypical avatars of the forum's 4s (black and white pictures expressing sadness, or a quandary) are a good example of what I mean, and they are becoming tiresome to view every day. I do not sense much originality; all I see is conformity created by the fear of appearing unlike a 4, and this fear itself is antithetical to being a 4 (or an sx, or a Fi user for that matter).

I suppose I'm one of the people that set off this tirade, with my conformist black and white avatars.

Problem being, I took my avatars directly from black and white films. Old un-colourised cinematography from times past. Yes, I was impersonating a film character I admired. First Sanjuro from Akira Kurosawa's eponymous film...and now, young Ivan the Terrible from Eisenstein's.

You can accuse me of merging my identity with someone else; you can accuse me of being absurd, or narcissistic to embrace such larger-than-life characters; hell, you can accuse me of copyright infringement or cultural appropriation...but ffs, DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF CONFORMITY. That is a losing battle. I made my avatar-username combo based on something that resonated with me from within--as I have done with everything throughout my whole life. What the hell other people on a goddamn typology forum were also doing did not factor a single shred into my choices.

I hope that is just perfectly clear. The assumptions in the OP aren't necessarily accurate.

Not everyone typing as 4 is a 6 in disguise. Some of us are legitimately 4s, others of us are just 4ish people of other types (eg, sx9s or sx7s, disintegrated 1s, you name it). Not everyone on these forums is playing image games, or "creating personas", or "putting on facades", or lying to themselves, or whatever sinister plot people seem to infer on these forums. In fact, I hear some of us are actually using the enneagram for inner work and better self-understanding.

I think a certain amount of tolerance for the process and assumption good faith is in order. People who are serious about this stuff will realize their mistype eventually. Those who aren't will just leave and forget the whole thing. But one thing's for sure. Making all these posts assuming bad faith (or "fear", or "conformity", or whatever) on people who type as 4 can lead to a whole hell of a lot of typing confusion and demoralization. I therefore urge readers against this.

OK sorry for the rant. Getting back to my research now.