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[Type 4] why do people make 4w3s out to be so flamboyant when its still a withdrawn type?

HongDou

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I sometimes see people saying 4w3 is more extravagant, loud, flashy, showy, etc even though it's still one of the more introverted types (if not one of the most along with 5) of the Enneagram. I think 4w3 is still just as withdrawn, sensitive, and inward-focused, just with more of an orientation towards appearing impressive to others.

Just something I'm wondering about. :thinking:
 

Noll

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I don't know, sometimes, the 7w6 deserves that title instead. There seems to be a great variety between famous 4w3's in terms of how flashy they are, Prince is very flashy, Michael Stipe is not, Morrissey is averagely flashy. In the public sphere, I'd love to be the center of attention, to be perceived as exhibionistic, charming, colorful as well as sympathetic. But in the private sphere I want to be left alone completely, and that's when I feel moody if my space has been invaded. For instance, I don't like having neighbors. This caused issues in the past with my friends, they would always find me fun to be around at school, but after school I never wanted to hang out with them. It annoyed them greatly, I tried explaining myself but they never really got it.
 

HongDou

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I don't know, sometimes, the 7w6 deserves that title instead.

icon_local_aimkissyface.gif


Really, I could see 2w3, 3w2, 3w4, 7w6, and 7w8 with this reputation. I understand some 4w3s probably adopt this attitude as well but I think it's not really a core aspect that deserves to be emphasized like some do. Although I'm not quite sure what a core quality of 4w3 would be actually. :shrug: It's hard to pin down.
 

Noll

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icon_local_aimkissyface.gif


Really, I could see 2w3, 3w2, 3w4, 7w6, and 7w8 with this reputation. I understand some 4w3s probably adopt this attitude as well but I think it's not really a core aspect that deserves to be emphasized like some do. Although I'm not quite sure what a core quality of 4w3 would be actually. :shrug: It's hard to pin down.
Well, in general 4w3's will be more outspoken with their emotions, they appear melodramatic. They can also have problems with vanity, and they're just more focused on the general public. These traits feel like they create flamboyancy quite easily, at least in the public sphere. If there's not something else in the way, like shyness.
 

OrangeAppled

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I don't know, sometimes, the 7w6 deserves that title instead. There seems to be a great variety between famous 4w3's in terms of how flashy they are, Prince is very flashy, Michael Stipe is not, Morrissey is averagely flashy. In the public sphere, I'd love to be the center of attention, to be perceived as exhibionistic, charming, colorful as well as sympathetic. But in the private sphere I want to be left alone completely, and that's when I feel moody if my space has been invaded. For instance, I don't like having neighbors. This caused issues in the past with my friends, they would always find me fun to be around at school, but after school I never wanted to hang out with them. It annoyed them greatly, I tried explaining myself but they never really got it.

And Prince's demeanor still seems withdrawn, IMO.... that's where people get confused - personality in terms of demeanor vs a visual image. Even many 4w5s craft very attention-grabbing visual images & personas (ie. Marilyn Manson). They can be dramatic in their art as well (both wings), but in interviews these people don't come across as "high energy". The 4 is actually quite inhibited and calculated in many ways, and the 3 wing possibly adds even more of a controlled & contrived aspect.

When I think of dramatic and flamboyant in the actual demeanor, then I agree that 2w3, 3w2, & 7w6 are better candidates. 3w4 tend to be cooler & more calculated even if outgoing & expressive & 7w8 lack the frenetic energy of 7w6, often seeming cooler & calmer even if still hammy at times.
 

Thalassa

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4w3 are more flamboyant than 4w5. Boy George much? I originally typed myself as 4w3 and its still my heart fix. It's probably Lana del Reys heart fix even if she is a 9...4w3 like to stand out as personas or artistes. A lot of writers who don't really write but live like hipsters are likely 4w3...it doesn't.necessarily mean "loud."
 

OrangeAppled

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^ I would've guessed Boy George is an ESFP 7w6....but I don't know that much about him.
 

Thalassa

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I don't know, sometimes, the 7w6 deserves that title instead. There seems to be a great variety between famous 4w3's in terms of how flashy they are, Prince is very flashy, Michael Stipe is not, Morrissey is averagely flashy. In the public sphere, I'd love to be the center of attention, to be perceived as exhibionistic, charming, colorful as well as sympathetic. But in the private sphere I want to be left alone completely, and that's when I feel moody if my space has been invaded. For instance, I don't like having neighbors. This caused issues in the past with my friends, they would always find me fun to be around at school, but after school I never wanted to hang out with them. It annoyed them greatly, I tried explaining myself but they never really got it.

That's exactly how I am. I crave an audience or an outlet, and can get depressed without it, but in my private life I am so like leave me the hell alone, I actually dress down sometimes to try to be more invisible.
 

Thalassa

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^ I would've guessed Boy George is an ESFP 7w6....but I don't know that much about him.

ESFP probably, but I have always typed him as 4w3 and have seen others type him as such. He seems to actually have a level of reserve and sensitivity, and he covered himself in the 3 image for years, almost hiding behind it. Seeing him without make up was like...a thing.
 

Evee

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4w3 are more flamboyant than 4w5. Boy George much? I originally typed myself as 4w3 and its still my heart fix. It's probably Lana del Reys heart fix even if she is a 9...4w3 like to stand out as personas or artistes. A lot of writers who don't really write but live like hipsters are likely 4w3...it doesn't.necessarily mean "loud."

Yeah I think lana is a 4w3. Not seeing nine..
 

Flâneuse

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I remember reading that 4w3s often have an ideal self that is far more uninhibited and freely expressive than how they really feel (inhibited, even "trapped in themselves", and self-conscious), and that they may have a flamboyant air in public and seem emotionally open, but in reality the deepest feelings (especially their deepest shame and the source of it) remain hidden. (I'm a 4w3-fixer and I relate to that to a degree, but the sp-9w1 veil "tones it down"/"filters it out" so that it's just a whisper, or a hint of drama in my expression.)

I don't have much experience with 4w3s and I'm just theorizing here - even I'm taking my opinions with a grain of salt. I wouldn't mind if anyone shares their differing opinions and experiences.
I think that both 3w4s and 4w3s have a tendency to act like their ideal selves in hopes they can actually become them, but 4w3s are more acutely aware that they're not being 100% sincere, which creates more shame, which drives the need to reject their real selves and reach for the idealized self even more. The healthier a 4w3 becomes, the more genuinely open they can be, and the more authentically the public self/persona reflects the real person underneath. (This is probably more essentially e3...but from what I've seen it applies to 4w3s, to a degree). In the case that the 4w3 is healthy, there will be more equanimity but also less inhibition about expressing their true feelings in the moment, and the person would probably come across as less pretentious/affected/melodramatic, and instead would be more grounded while still being expressive and colorful. <-- This probably depends on stacking, too. I could see a painfully shy Social 4w3 coming across as more dramatic and forceful as they get healthier.

I think the level of obvious emotional expressiveness might correlate with stacking (sx-doms are probably the least filtered, sx-lasts the most) and the level of extroversion. ENFP 4w3s are the most likely to appear have any resemblance to the stereotype Chanaynay mentions; in contrast, I knew an INFP 4w3 who was very shy and socially awkward, though she did have a dramatic edge that was apparent in her writing and around people she knew well.
 

magpie

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I've read a bit of what people have said about 4w3s on this site and most of it was contradictory and confusing. I based my typing off descriptions from other places that seemed a bit deeper and... kinder, somehow.

And I agree with what some of the above posters have said, that 4w3s have ideals set for themselves, and I can only talk about myself, obviously, but I think in some ways the longing itself has more meaning than actually reaching any of those ideals. I've read about contradiction being a theme with 4w3s and I think it's true. The intensity of feeling and the need for expression versus the fear of what destruction expression might cause. Control versus lack of control. But I don't think that with 4w3s there's a "real" person hiding underneath, or anything like that. It's all real. I've realized that as I've become more comfortable with myself I've become far more more comfortable being around other people, and I think that the fact that I am louder, friendlier and more sociable around others isn't part of some sort of split in personality or forced inauthenticity.

Oh, here's what I read (about contradiction): 4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways: inferior/superior, being/becoming, self-conscious/confident, putting themselves down/glorifying themselves, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game.
 

Southern Kross

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4w3 are more flamboyant than 4w5. Boy George much? I originally typed myself as 4w3 and its still my heart fix. It's probably Lana del Reys heart fix even if she is a 9...4w3 like to stand out as personas or artistes. A lot of writers who don't really write but live like hipsters are likely 4w3...it doesn't.necessarily mean "loud."
Lana is such a 4w3. Haven't you heard Born to Die?! :alttongue:

Even the video is...


I remember reading that 4w3s often have an ideal self that is far more uninhibited and freely expressive than how they really feel (inhibited, even "trapped in themselves", and self-conscious), and that they may have a flamboyant air in public and seem emotionally open, but in reality the deepest feelings (especially their deepest shame and the source of it) remain hidden.
That sounds about right to me too.
 

Thalassa

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Lana is such a 4w3. Haven't you heard Born to Die?! :alttongue:

Even the video is...



That sounds about right to me too.

I have heard all of her music, I am only trumped as a fan by the person she got a restraining order against. In all seriousness though, I know all of her unreleased stuff, and I know how many others were involved in Born to Die vs. Ultraviolence and her earlier stuff...so, going by her interviews I got a real sense of her being non confrontational and floating in her own detached head space in a body oriented way, also she idealizes holy perfect love in many of her songs. But the invention of an ideal self that she created down to the name strikes me as 4w3 ...they're the only two types I would accept for her, honestly. 9s integrate at 3 so they get more motivated when they focus on success, which she did, and would explain 3 characteristics. They disintegrate at nervous paranoia of an unhealthy 6, and she has horrific stage fright or rather she used to, which I think contributes to the creation of the Lana shell, like the look empowers her to be confident.

She's one or the other.
 

Cloud of Thunder

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I sometimes see people saying 4w3 is more extravagant, loud, flashy, showy, etc even though it's still one of the more introverted types (if not one of the most along with 5) of the Enneagram. I think 4w3 is still just as withdrawn, sensitive, and inward-focused, just with more of an orientation towards appearing impressive to others.

Just something I'm wondering about. :thinking:
It's probably an attempt to set it apart from the 4w5, which is considered the more intellectual, loner type of 4.
 

Redbone

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Oh, here's what I read (about contradiction): 4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways: inferior/superior, being/becoming, self-conscious/confident, putting themselves down/glorifying themselves, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game.

I read this, too. It's one of the things that convinced me that I was a 4w3. Am and am not all those things! It made it so difficult to decide on an enneagram type...they fit but didn't fit, too (thought I was a 5, then 7, now 4). These contradictions were so accurate for me.
 

Elfboy

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I sometimes see people saying 4w3 is more extravagant, loud, flashy, showy, etc even though it's still one of the more introverted types (if not one of the most along with 5) of the Enneagram. I think 4w3 is still just as withdrawn, sensitive, and inward-focused, just with more of an orientation towards appearing impressive to others.
Just something I'm wondering about. :thinking:

it's typically the Sexual 4w3 which is more flamaboyant, extravagant diva. Social 4w3 is whinier and more shame-ridden (like that Christa Aguilera song "I am Beautiful"). as for Sp 4w3s, I can't think of a good example (though they would probably be a lot more chill than the other 4w3)
 

Vasilisa

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*Mod edit: Lana Del Rey tangent moved here, please keep this thread on topic, thanks*
 

Galena

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it's typically the Sexual 4w3 which is more flamaboyant, extravagant diva. Social 4w3 is whinier and more shame-ridden (like that Christa Aguilera song "I am Beautiful"). as for Sp 4w3s, I can't think of a good example (though they would probably be a lot more chill than the other 4w3)
I'm close on the sp and so. Though I have only myself for experience, I feel my sp-first may make me seem more 3w4-ish than the others. When I visit the differences between 3 and 4, though, it becomes all too clear which is the true core. You'll know it more the closer you are to me, too. I am more chill...up to the moment that I'm not. The public/intimate split in expression that comes up in descriptions of both of these types is stronger in me than it seems to be in at least sx 4s - it has been that way since childhood.
 
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