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[Type 4] 4s and the fantasy self

NK258

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I have a 4 in my tritype and this has been bothering me. Is it better to try and live up to the fantasy self or let it go? Is the fantasy self your purpose or an illusion? What happens when you live up to the fantasy self? Do you just create another one? What has your experience been?

I personally do not believe you can switch your core fix. Nor do I think it's of any benefit to live up to your fantasy self. If you mean rather, your ideal potential you seek to achieve, go for it. If you mean you daydream an image of who you think you are, and are afraid to embrace the fact that you are not this person, I suggest you push through it. My closest friend is a 4 with a strong 5 wing. She has grown to be a more secure individual and has grown to be more authentic (which is something she's demanded primarily of others most her life) by accepting she is who she is, and not the fantasy she construes to feel safe and more secure. There is false inner security, and true inner security. The latter of which takes work to accumulate. If it wasn't work. It wouldn't be worth much now would it.

My apologies if I misunderstood what you were asking here.
 
L

LadyLazarus

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I have a 4 in my tritype and this has been bothering me. Is it better to try and live up to the fantasy self or let it go? Is the fantasy self your purpose or an illusion? What happens when you live up to the fantasy self? Do you just create another one? What has your experience been?

I think it is better to let your fantasy self go,as I believe they are an illusion,at least for me.My last fantasy self was tough,rebellious, and brave,although I know I shouldn't I pretend to be like her,she's the face I try to show to the world,despite myself.In reality I'm quite the opposite of her.I don't think I'll ever really be like her.

When I try to live up to my fantasy self,I fool myself along with everyone else,thinking maybe this is who I really am?Later,I realize I had just been pretending,and am filled with disappointment,but despite this I keep pretending for a bit,because it felt nice to be that way for a while.

I also feel disappointed that everyone believed me so well,why doesn't anyone see the real me not even myself?At the same time,I'm glad everyone bought it,I don't want them to see the real me.

This part of myself honestly disgusts me.

I change fantasy selves every once in a while,not because I have lived up to them,but because I have come to admire a different set of traits and I want to try them on for size,it's a never ending cycle of toxicity.That way maybe I have been what I currently admire all along?My current self/fantasy-self is aloof on the outside and an ultra-sensitive marshmallow on the inside.I think this is the real me?But then again I thought that about all of them,so maybe not...

Eventually bits and pieces of my past fantasy selves become reincarnated into what I assume to be my actual personality?

Seriously,trying to reach for my actual self(whoever the hell that may be) through the sea of my fantasy selves makes me feel nuts,like I have too many facets,like I want to be everything at once,even when certain traits conflict with one another.I want to be/pretend to be strong yet gentle,blunt yet tactful,tough yet feminine,mysterious yet charming,etc.It drives me nuts.

Honestly at this point I have no idea who the hell I even am anymore.
 

grey_beard

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It can be painful to try and turn the real world into the fantasy, and you'll never make it, as it needs editing. In the end, it becomes a hybrid of fantasy and reality and if you've done your job correctly, it surpasses both. I find that I first need to just acknowledge the fantasy for what it is: a fantasy. Then I need to say goodbye in it and sort of grieve its loss to then devalue it, like OrangeAppled said, by realising that as beautiful as it is, it's just one of many fantasies in the world and there is more to life than the world I created. After that, it becomes an idea I can play with and edit without feeling like my soul is being cut to pieces. I start thinking of it as a muse, an inspirational source to improve the real world with. After that, it's just a matter of implementing the idea :)

It's kind of like writing a novel: research and mentally put together your world (creation of fantasy), write the draft for yourself (manifestation of fantasy world), then kill your darlings and rewrite the story, restructure, and adapt the prose to maximise the impact on your audience to tailor your world to them (idea restructuring and seeing how it would be perceived by others and work in the real world
).
Sorry for the thread necro...was following this thread for something else & felt compelled to comment.
Just D@mn but you're mature about this. Consider yourself *highly* commended.
Signed, a robot who merely wishes he had the ability to write novels...
 

grey_beard

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I think it is better to let your fantasy self go,as I believe they are an illusion,at least for me.My last fantasy self was tough,rebellious, and brave,although I know I shouldn't I pretend to be like her,she's the face I try to show to the world,despite myself.In reality I'm quite the opposite of her.I don't think I'll ever really be like her.

When I try to live up to my fantasy self,I fool myself along with everyone else,thinking maybe this is who I really am?Later,I realize I had just been pretending,and am filled with disappointment,but despite this I keep pretending for a bit,because it felt nice to be that way for a while.

I also feel disappointed that everyone believed me so well,why doesn't anyone see the real me not even myself?At the same time,I'm glad everyone bought it,I don't want them to see the real me.

This part of myself honestly disgusts me.

I change fantasy selves every once in a while,not because I have lived up to them,but because I have come to admire a different set of traits and I want to try them on for size,it's a never ending cycle of toxicity.That way maybe I have been what I currently admire all along?My current self/fantasy-self is aloof on the outside and an ultra-sensitive marshmallow on the inside.I think this is the real me?But then again I thought that about all of them,so maybe not...

Eventually bits and pieces of my past fantasy selves become reincarnated into what I assume to be my actual personality?

Seriously,trying to reach for my actual self(whoever the hell that may be) through the sea of my fantasy selves makes me feel nuts,like I have too many facets,like I want to be everything at once,even when certain traits conflict with one another.I want to be/pretend to be strong yet gentle,blunt yet tactful,tough yet feminine,mysterious yet charming,etc.It drives me nuts.

Honestly at this point I have no idea who the hell I even am anymore.
Sorry for the thread necro, but about the sentence bolded above...
You just described *me*. INTJ 5w4 at your service.
It really does exist, it's not a :unicorn:.

Whether or not such is the best "real" or even the best "current" description of your true self, you will know far better than I.
But *I'm* stuck with it. :peepwall:
 
W

WhoCares

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I've become my fantasy self at least three times over, each time the reality creates a larger discrepancy than the fantasy ever did. For once you acheive what you thought would make you feel complete you realise you are emptier than before. That sense of completeness never comes then, it's....oh! But I forgot about that *chases shiny new concept*.
 

Paige93701

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I am another number four I use my "fantasy" versions of myself which are kind of like different sides to my personality or ways in which I want to be perceived as characters in my writing.
 

MWill

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I'm a 4w5. The fantasy self for me is a constantly changing persona. Never static. I can jump from one character to the next pretty quick, but wonder how to lasso in the real me
 

Froody Blue Gem

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I think the fantasy self is a sort of defense mechanism when reality isn't too pretty. Nobody is perfect and some types are prone to romanticizing. 4s from experience are pretty self-aware but sometimes exaggerate certain traits and dwell upon them. I would say that the withdrawn triad in general tends to focus on things in their fantasies that detach from reality. 9s and 5s, it's not always about the self but it can be. Because I'm not a core 4, I lack the "self aware" aspect but I do tend to fixiate on certain aspects about my self image because of my strong 4 drives. For me, if I didn't escape into fantasies or the world of my mind life would be a lot more stressful than it needed to be.

There does come to be a point when I do it too much though so it's all a learning process. It's difficult for the withdrawn triad to be yanked back into reality because we find a safety net in the worlds of our minds. One important thing is to be able to separate fantasy from reality, be aware that there's a distance, know that daydreaming is a sort of safe haven but also be able to work on the problems that need to be worked on. There is a time and place for each and it can be balanced.
 

Maou

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I have a 4 in my tritype and this has been bothering me. Is it better to try and live up to the fantasy self or let it go? Is the fantasy self your purpose or an illusion? What happens when you live up to the fantasy self? Do you just create another one? What has your experience been?

Try to live up to the positive ones, let go of the bad aspects.

My fantasy self is a life goal, one which I know will be difficult to reach. Its not an illusion, as much as its attempting to control how I grow as a person. Ive never lived up to my fantasy self, but sometimes I master some aspects. Which feels nice.
 

senza tema

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Try to live up to the positive ones, let go of the bad aspects.

My fantasy self is a life goal, one which I know will be difficult to reach. Its not an illusion, as much as its attempting to control how I grow as a person. Ive never lived up to my fantasy self, but sometimes I master some aspects. Which feels nice.

Lol, you're not a 4.
 

Maou

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Lol, you're not a 4.

What makes you think that? What type do you think I am? Also, I am sp not sx, there will be many differences between us.
 

senza tema

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What makes you think that? What type do you think I am? Also, I am sp not sx, there will be many differences between us.

Your self-presentation is generally far too positive for 4 to make sense. In most cases, 4s lead with their flaws and underplay their talents. You on the other hand generally like to talk about the stuff you're good at in casual conversation (I'm a great cook, I'm awesome at languages, I'm super smart and critical, etc.), when you're not trying to fit a typological model. That to me is very revealing because 4s don't talk like this.
 

Maou

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Your self-presentation is generally far too positive for 4 to make sense. In most cases, 4s lead with their flaws and underplay their accomplishments. You on the other hand generally like to talk about the stuff you're good at in casual conversation (I'm a great cook, I'm awesome at languages, I'm super smart and critical, etc.), when you're not trying to fit a typological model. That to me is very revealing because 4s don't talk like this.

What are you talking about? I know plenty of 4s that can discuss their achievements. Being sp 4 (contra flow) means I hide my insecurities, and only show my good points. Also being a thinker might give me an edge in controlling my emotions. People who know me better all agree I am a 4 on a core level, not behavior wise as per my motivations and how I think about the world.
 

senza tema

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What are you talking about? I know plenty of 4s that can discuss their achievements. Being sp 4 (contra flow) means I hide my insecurities, and only show my good points. Also being a thinker might give me an edge in controlling my emotions. People who know me better all agree I am a 4 on a core level, not behavior wise as per my motivations and how I think about the world.

*shrugs*

I'm not interested in changing your mind, I just think your opinions on 4s might be misleading because you are mistyping yourself.

sp/so is a syn-flow type.
 

Venus Rose

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This is just based on my personal experience/opinion...may not apply to every 4 :)

I think I am more attuned to my "ugly self" though the very fact that this exists, necessitates that there is an opposite to it as well...the ideal self. For the most part, I think I am much more focused on the former.

It has been incredibly difficult for me to change, specially my 'ugly parts' of my personality, because I identify with them so much. I would rather lose my relationships than to change those parts of me...based on experience. Even though this hurts like hell, makes me feel like an open wound...and I have often ended up in the really unhealthy levels (suicidal and such) due to feeling inherently ugly. I tried at the very least, to even consider..."integrating my light side" so to speak since 4s can often live in their shadow self...I at the very least, did. But it was inherently repelling because I felt like I was being "rejected for who I really was," and if I am not good enough, as who I am...what is the point of "changing"? It doesn't mean anything...

I am still working on this so perhaps take my advice with a grain of salt but...
I think there might be a way to look at this where you don't see it as light or shadow self per se, or "ugly" or "ideal" self. But simply as .... self. That removal of labeling can really help with, taking care of the rather strong emotions associated with each "side" and realizing not all your "ugly self" is really that bad. I have never responded well to people asking me to integrate my good side or whatever...but I realized as I went through some processing, that removing those labels helped me somewhat.
 

Maou

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*shrugs*

I'm not interested in changing your mind, I just think your opinions on 4s might be misleading because you are mistyping yourself.

sp/so is a syn-flow type.

[Enneagram Type 4] Self-Preservation Four description (according to Beatrice Chestnut).

I meant counter type, not contra flow in my previous statement (I didnt know it was 2 seperate things)

Anyways, I know what type I am, and I think your assessment is wrong, and superficial. Near implying one cannot be E4 unless they are suffering and negative about life. Which I think is offensive. You literally had no reason to come in this thread, and call me out. This isn't a type me thread. So I assume you're motivations were entirely antagonistic in the sense you don't like the idea that I can be the same type as you. Which is extremely ironic in a 4 thread lmao.
 

senza tema

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[Enneagram Type 4] Self-Preservation Four description (according to Beatrice Chestnut).

I meant counter type, not contra flow in my previous statement (I didnt know it was 2 seperate things)

Anyways, I know what type I am, and I think your assessment is wrong, and superficial. Near implying one cannot be E4 unless they are suffering and negative about life. Which I think is offensive. You literally had no reason to come in this thread, and call me out. This isn't a type me thread. So I assume you're motivations were entirely antagonistic in the sense you don't like the idea that I can be the same type as you. Which is extremely ironic in a 4 thread lmao.

You're making a lot of assumptions based on shit I didn't say so I don't really care if you're offended by it or not. I also find it ludicrous that you think the only reason I could suggest someone is mistyped outside a type me thread is personal antagonism.

Suffering, negativity, envy and feelings of inadequacy are essential to enneagram 4. I'm not saying 4s can never be positive or motivated or happy; I am however saying that your gestalt does not line up with the essential characteristics of a 4.
 

senza tema

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I read through the thread and the only authentically 4 responses I see here are from The Tsarevich and OrangeAppled. :shrug:
 
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