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[Type 4] 4s and the fantasy self

badger055

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I have a 4 in my tritype and this has been bothering me. Is it better to try and live up to the fantasy self or let it go? Is the fantasy self your purpose or an illusion? What happens when you live up to the fantasy self? Do you just create another one? What has your experience been?
 

Firebird 8118

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[MENTION=14363]Standuble[/MENTION] This might be an interesting topic for you to discuss with badger. :)
 

Qlip

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I can't imagine not chasing something in my life. But inevitably I catch it and then I don't feel as near as fulfilled as I expected, and I find some other dream to chase. But, I so far have always ended up for the better, though never feeling complete.

I'm not sure there's really any other way to do this. I do often take the time to try to be happy with myself as I am, if not just for a day.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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[MENTION=16476]badger055[/MENTION]

I'm no longer a core 4...but it's still a strong second fix. I do have the idealized self-image of which you speak, as well as an utter inability to realize this outside my imagination. It's probably better to let it go and just build your real-world skills, although this is easier said than done, obviously. The discrepencies do create shame and self-loathing, and hence, suffering. So clearly it isn't really to our benefit.

I don't think I've ever truly lived up to my "fantasy self", though I am prone to taking on different identities depending on my mood.
 

OrangeAppled

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I don't experience it as a goal. It's more like "me if I actually lived" or "me if the world appreciated someone like me".
For a 4, it's a way to boost the ego, which is strange for us, because our ego is based on a poor self image, an idea of being broken or insignificant. So as we continually fall short of the impossible dream, it feeds our ego!

I have never lived up to my fantasy self...or selves I should say. It's not like there is one at a time.
But when I have crafted an image which is regarded as something close, I do a nasty thing to myself. I devalue it. Now it means nothing. I discover an insight that this is really some shallow crap. I see a 5ish-ness here in myself in the devaluing things to the point of meaninglessnes. It also demotivates & gives me reason to not pursue fantasies. I think 3 wingers wake up with a disillusionment, realizing the fantasy was less motivated by their own desires than external concepts they internalized as able to give them "significance".

In short - the fantasy self is not merely a "goal self". Real goals involve plans & actions & increments of progress. This is about image & how you see yourself, not accomplishing stuff so much.


As a side...

 

Amargith

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It can be painful to try and turn the real world into the fantasy, and you'll never make it, as it needs editing. In the end, it becomes a hybrid of fantasy and reality and if you've done your job correctly, it surpasses both. I find that I first need to just acknowledge the fantasy for what it is: a fantasy. Then I need to say goodbye in it and sort of grieve its loss to then devalue it, like OrangeAppled said, by realising that as beautiful as it is, it's just one of many fantasies in the world and there is more to life than the world I created. After that, it becomes an idea I can play with and edit without feeling like my soul is being cut to pieces. I start thinking of it as a muse, an inspirational source to improve the real world with. After that, it's just a matter of implementing the idea :)

It's kind of like writing a novel: research and mentally put together your world (creation of fantasy), write the draft for yourself (manifestation of fantasy world), then kill your darlings and rewrite the story, restructure, and adapt the prose to maximise the impact on your audience to tailor your world to them (idea restructuring and seeing how it would be perceived by others and work in the real world).
 

Elfboy

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I have a 4 in my tritype and this has been bothering me. Is it better to try and live up to the fantasy self or let it go? Is the fantasy self your purpose or an illusion? What happens when you live up to the fantasy self? Do you just create another one? What has your experience been?
you have a double dose of it being core 7 (speaking from experience)
 

badger055

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I can't imagine not chasing something in my life. But inevitably I catch it and then I don't feel as near as fulfilled as I expected, and I find some other dream to chase. But, I so far have always ended up for the better, though never feeling complete.

This is how it is for me. It's like if I complete this quest I get 5% fulfillment. But it seems like the more impossible the quest the more fulfillment I get.

I realize the contradiction here, but I'm kind of sick about talking about my 4-ness.
I'm sure it will pass and all will return to normal fascination with self, but right now it's just :sleeping:

Every time I see a new 4 thread, I'm thinking, "How much more can be said?!". Anyone else?

You again with your passive aggressiveness. If you don't like my thread then don't post in it.

It's kind of like writing a novel: research and mentally put together your world (creation of fantasy)

I like that.

you have a double dose of it being core 7 (speaking from experience)

Yea definitely and 7s need to turn things into reality. A fantasy that can't be realized is worthless to me.
 

Amargith

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Then you like step 1 :)

Don't expect it to translate to an end-product though, without going through the other steps, as that will crush your spirit
 

OrangeAppled

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You again with your passive aggressiveness. If you don't like my thread then don't post in it.

It wasn't a criticism of your thread. I was honestly asking other 4s about it. It was not directed at YOU.

I don't recognize you as a poster, but I'm happy to avoid your threads from now should I remember you exist.
I spent time & energy creating a thoughtful response. If you don't like it, then don't read or respond to it either.
 

Forever_Jung

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You again with your passive aggressiveness. If you don't like my thread then don't post in it.

I kind of read it like that at first, too! However, after I re-read it sounds more like: I am PERSONALLY bored/tired by these topics LATELY. Any other 4's feel the same way?

I don't think it was meant to be a criticism of your thread, per se. I dunno though, you might be right. :shrug:

Edit: Oops, OA already clarified, my bad.
 

badger055

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Then you like step 1 :)

Don't expect it to translate to an end-product though, without going through the other steps, as that will crush your spirit

Yea uh step 2 is not going to work for me. Destroying the fantasy would be like saying I couldn't do it and that's a big no no for 7s. Breaking limitations is what motivates me I would never put them on myself. It even bothers me that you did it to yourself. But I can modify the fantasy or substitute with something similar. I'm not sure how unrealistic core 4 fantasies are.

Also devaluing something is just another word for lowering standards and I think that's a toxic type of thinking. That's the kind of thinking people use to rationalize being poor and insignificant.
 

Amargith

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Yea uh step 2 is not going to work for me. Destroying the fantasy would be like saying I couldn't do it and that's a big no no for 7s. Breaking limitations is what motivates me I would never put them on myself. It even bothers me that you did it to yourself. But I can modify the fantasy or substitute with something similar. I'm not sure how unrealistic core 4 fantasies are.

Also devaluing something is just another word for lowering standards and I think that's a toxic type of thinking. That's the kind of thinking people use to rationalize being poor and insignificant.

Grin. Hon, I have dreams of being a Water Nymph with my own Enchanted Forest and Blue Lagoon. It's hardly something I can put into reality - but I can use it as a source of inspiration.

When I said devaluing, I meant..take distance from it, emotionally, so I can do the editing I need to make it even better - and capable of surviving the 'real world'. Much like you would edit a first draft of a novel and save it from being flabby, and telling instead of showing - things that you as an author don't need fixed as it is your world and you know what thought you meant to convey. Your audience however does not live in your head, and therefore needs those edits to share that world with you.

I'm a 497 btw...so I understand the seven part. But one of the amazing things of being a seven is that you generate ideas by the barrel - and many 7s will use those ideas to just...plant them like seeds and watch which ones survive reality. It's a different way to cull than the 4 does...but it is culling and 'devaluing' nonetheless, as you do not mourn the ideas that don't make it; you focus on those that do. Survival of the fittest :)
 

badger055

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I have dreams of being a Water Nymph with my own Enchanted Forest and Blue Lagoon.
Interdasting...

When I said devaluing, I meant..take distance from it, emotionally, so I can do the editing I need to make it even better - and capable of surviving the 'real world'. Much like you would edit a first draft of a novel and save it from being flabby, and telling instead of showing - things that you as an author don't need fixed as it is your world and you know what thought you meant to convey. Your audience however does not live in your head, and therefore needs those edits to share that world with you.
That sounds more like an intuitive problem with ideas not matching up with reality. I'm not that badly disconnected. Although I'm left wondering sometimes why I want to pursue some things when logically I don't even want it. I don't entertain some of the more crazy fantasies or else that would drive me mad.

The devaluing thing doesn't apply to me since I have like no emotions anyway. I honestly don't know the first thing about manipulating my own emotions.

I'm a 497 btw...so I understand the seven part. But one of the amazing things of being a seven is that you generate ideas by the barrel - and many 7s will use those ideas to just...plant them like seeds and watch which ones survive reality. It's a different way to cull than the 4 does...but it is culling and 'devaluing' nonetheless, as you do not mourn the ideas that don't make it; you focus on those that do. Survival of the fittest :)

Any random idea is not going to be good enough. My purpose in life is not some whore that gives itself out to whoever. It's only one thing and it fits like a puzzle piece.
 

Qlip

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Interdasting...


That sounds more like an intuitive problem with ideas not matching up with reality. I'm not that badly disconnected. Although I'm left wondering sometimes why I want to pursue some things when logically I don't even want it. I don't entertain some of the more crazy fantasies or else that would drive me mad.

The devaluing thing doesn't apply to me since I have like no emotions anyway. I honestly don't know the first thing about manipulating my own emotions.



Any random idea is not going to be good enough. My purpose in life is not some whore that gives itself out to whoever. It's only one thing and it fits like a puzzle piece.

Hah, hate to point it out, but this sounds overly ideal. I'm hep to sniffing these things out.

FYI, my dreams are actually pretty practical, which is why I reach them and then have to deal with 'success'. I'm just about on the threshhold with being consumed with the idea of becoming a published author, for example. Unlike A, I don't have to grow a unicorn horn or something to do it. :p Though it would help. Hmm...
 

Amargith

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It was an extreme example, people :p

Each idea still needs editing, finetuning and adjusting to your current circumstances and i was trying to show that some dont survive that process and that often the process of indulging in the idea is favorited over the one where yoy edit it - once you learn to appreciate that pro es though, youre capable of some amazing things.
 

Little_Sticks

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I kind of read it like that at first, too! However, after I re-read it sounds more like: I am PERSONALLY bored/tired by these topics LATELY. Any other 4's feel the same way?

I don't think it was meant to be a criticism of your thread, per se. I dunno though, you might be right. :shrug:

Edit: Oops, OA already clarified, my bad.

Am I the only one that took it as her/him being frustrated with them-self? I relate anyway, the frustration of trying so hard to pin-point something, thinking then that everything's already been said, but being uneasy that it might not have been, wanting affirmation of some sorts, though that may be impossible to accept.
 

Little_Sticks

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I kind of read it like that at first, too! However, after I re-read it sounds more like: I am PERSONALLY bored/tired by these topics LATELY. Any other 4's feel the same way?

I don't think it was meant to be a criticism of your thread, per se. I dunno though, you might be right. :shrug:

Edit: Oops, OA already clarified, my bad.

Am I the only one that took it as her/him being frustrated with them-self? I relate anyway, the frustration of trying so hard to pin-point something, thinking then that everything's already been said, but being uneasy that it might not have been, wanting affirmation of some sorts, though that may be impossible to accept.
 

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badger055

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Hah, hate to point it out, but this sounds overly ideal. I'm hep to sniffing these things out.

That's just how it is for me. Apparently 7s are one of the idealistic types. Call it high standards.
 
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