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  1. #41
    Senior Member Venus Rose's Avatar
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    @Tenebris I would say to not bother with it

    I don’t understand “only such and such person is authentically 4”...and I’m a 4...I don’t do this lol.

    I have always seen people as mostly honest...if I sense deception, I distance myself. I never understood this whole...deal with “calling people out” or whatever. In my eyes it looks like invalidation, like the person is being sincere and honest and they are being stepped on anyway.

    i guess if you might have strong pretentious qualities yourself you are more likely to project it onto the rest of the world.

    I never saw 4 as an inherently desirable or glamorous type; and I’m skeptical of the idea that many others do.
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  2. #42
    Mobile Typo-artist Sung Jin-Woo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    You're making a lot of assumptions based on shit I didn't say so I don't really care if you're offended by it or not. I also find it ludicrous that you think the only reason I could suggest someone is mistyped outside a type me thread is personal antagonism.

    Suffering, negativity, envy and feelings of inadequacy are essential to enneagram 4. I'm not saying 4s can never be positive or motivated or happy; I am however saying that your gestalt does not line up with the essential characteristics of a 4.
    Did you not catch the part where I said "near implying". To clarify, that's what it sounded like to me. Didn't intend to rustle you.

    What is my gestalt? Far as I know, I align perfectly with the 4 core messages.
    “An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way.”
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  3. #43
    Give me a fourth dot. The Tsarevich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Yes but you get what it's like.
    I do my best.

  4. #44
    Silver and Lead Galena's Avatar
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    Here’s my dubious lil stab at the OP...

    The nature of a fantasy self has evolved for me over time in terms of confidence that it will come to exist. When I was a kid and teenager, it was a vision of who I would be and what I would accomplish when I got older. And yet as detailed as it was in the imagination, and as necessary as that outcome felt for my survival on a planet I barely felt equipped to live on, I began turning away real life opportunities to move in that direction. In the moment, sometimes I didn’t feel “ready” or confident enough to take an opportunity, but other times, one suddenly felt like it was beneath me. I did not imagine that these choices seriously jeopardized the future - that anything could cancel the inevitable.

    Keep brain development in perspective though. At those ages, I still didn’t understand, either, things like that I could seriously hurt other people or that being a good person was a choice rather than a side I was born on. That was where I was at. What a joke.

    Now having been out in the world for a while, I know more about why I sabotage myself and about the time, effort and even some luck it takes to break out of that completely within the little time we have. I can imagine many more timelines than just the favorite one that’s (still...) nice to daydream about, and know in my bones how easy it would be to live out my entire life along my quieter patterns instead. I have already made several defining choices that in hindsight are nonsense compared to anything I actually care about - and that’s actually pretty typical. Many, many people die with unrealized dreams - I suspect this could even be most of us. There would be nothing specially tragic or abnormal about ending up as one of the many. It’s normal for the human nature we universally struggle with to be stronger than any individual’s unique potential.

    I also question that this fantasy self is even so great. The vision centers on my own significance and own imagined relationships - it’s not about helping anyone. It’s not about advacoting for change in the world. It’s about “actually living” and just sharing what’s inside my head with others. Which is great and all - but is it enough to be good? In some ways, I see more nobility in the sort of more primal dreams I skim over, such as having a family. Also, the distance between me and the ideal is the biggest driver of my overblown fear of mortality - bare-faced vanity right there.

    The one belief, though, that I’ve clung to consistently as this has evolved, though, is believing that the actualization of the fantasy self is or at least was possible. This is an assumption that I am aware enough to know that all the code required to build this specific thing was in written in my raw material at birth, whether or not I ever would take the initiative to run that code.

    The fantasy self will probably exist as a secret parallel world my entire life. What’s developed on the other side of the parallel is the capacity and the words to articulate that while actualizing it is worth a shot, “who we really are” is our choices, and we know so much less than we think about what even drives those.

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  5. #45
    nunc rosa cras fex senza tema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebris View Post
    Did you not catch the part where I said "near implying". To clarify, that's what it sounded like to me. Didn't intend to rustle you.

    What is my gestalt? Far as I know, I align perfectly with the 4 core messages.
    You didn't rustle me, in fact, now I have no idea what you're talking about. My point remains that I think you're mistyped. While behaviors aren't perfect proxies for underlying motivations, they do hint at them. The image you have put together for yourself does not seem to have been constructed in a 4ish way. This suggests to me that you're mistyped. I'm pointing it out because I think what you said about a fantasy self being a life goal—and an attainable life goal at that—really doesn't seem to be a 4ish fantasy at all, particularly with regard to what you've already accomplished. So while I respect what you say about your fantasy self, I think it's misleading as far as type 4 is concerned.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    I have a 4 in my tritype and this has been bothering me. Is it better to try and live up to the fantasy self or let it go? Is the fantasy self your purpose or an illusion? What happens when you live up to the fantasy self? Do you just create another one? What has your experience been?
    Huh. Can relate to this, weirdly.

  7. #47
    Pasta Goddess ThisName's Avatar
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    How (un)healthy is it to have a fantasy 'self'? Self between quotation marks since for me personally, when I am not feeling well I don't think about myself but I 'play' the role of someone else (most of the time).



    But it makes me wonder... Is this only a characteristic of type four? For a long time I always thought that this was normal. What do other people do all day long..? What do they think about? I suspect that everyone has some fantasies once in a while, but that it's not a 'rule' that everyone makes up stories like this, that it occupies their mind from the second they wake up and until they fall asleep.

    An additional question would be; how did you experience this as a kid? (Not only @ people who are type four)
    I am also in general curious how other people picture their fantasy self/persona. Where do you get your inspiration from? What does it mean to you? How does it impact your life,...?
    “I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it.”

    - J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

  8. #48
    Senior Member Venus Rose's Avatar
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    no idea whether I have responded to this before or no
    point of 4 is that you feel, at your very core, you are so "flawed" in a way that is utterly different from everyone else, which gives rise to envy, jealousy, all of those super painful feelings

    the "fantasy self" I guess might be something the 4 "would like to be" though at the same time they are all too attached to their flawed and authentic self image

    best way out of this whole cycle is to gently let yourself appreciate the good things about you, and let go of that envy at the core, as much as you can
    until, ideally, there's not much of it there anymore
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