• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Type 5] What does a counter phobic 5 look like?

Rasofy

royal member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,881
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Kinda like Bobby Fischer, I suppose
 

Haven

Blind Guardian
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
1,075
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
2w3
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Kevin mitnick? I didn't know there was such a thing as cp5.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Kevin mitnick? I didn't know there was such a thing as cp5.

There isn't such a thing as a cp5. But what if there was?
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
Counterphobic might not be the best term to use as it's already used to describe a certain orientation of 6s, but 5s who integrate to 8 to and don't withdraw will have a "counterphobic" feel to them. I've used this video before but it's a good example.

 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes, there is no such thing.
 

Rasofy

royal member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,881
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
How so? I need more details.
Like others said, there's no cp 5 in the theory, though it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that every human being has phobic or counter-phobic leanings, so I played along.

Phobic is to flight as counter-phobic is to fight. The way I see it, for the label to make sense, a theoretical cp 5 would have to stick to unhealthy levels of the enneagram. This describes what I have in mind:

Level 6: Begin to take an antagonistic stance toward anything which would interfere with their inner world and personal vision. Become provocative and abrasive, with intentionally extreme and radical views. Cynical and argumentative.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typefive.asp
 

badger055

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
570
Like others said, there's no cp 5 in the theory, though it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that every human being has phobic or counter-phobic leanings, so I played along.

Phobic is to flight as counter-phobic is to fight. The way I see it, for the label to make sense, a theoretical cp 5 would have to stick to unhealthy levels of the enneagram. This describes what I have in mind:



http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typefive.asp

Doesn't it just mean you act against the natural fears of the type? That's dumb then only type 6s get to be counter phobic.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,447
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Counterphobic might not be the best term to use as it's already used to describe a certain orientation of 6s, but 5s who integrate to 8 to and don't withdraw will have a "counterphobic" feel to them.


Interesting. It has something to do with integrating to 8, or being in the process of integrating to 8, you think? Is there a certain tendency of, in situation where conflict is simmering under the surface, to call people on their bullshit, like in the video above?
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
6,048
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I can see it being a move towards 8 but I'm not sure I'd call it integration, as 'integration' infers a step in the right direction. I get that way myself (like the video) and it invariably feels bad afterwards. It seems to me that a 'healthy' move towards 8 would mean sharing those observations in a constructive way which is helpful to others. When it's just bitterly pointing stuff out, it's like those observations have accumulated and reached a boiling point*- even though it's acting outwards, which might otherwise seem like a healthy move for 5s- it's still lacking appropriate/respectful connection to others. (Largely it's a matter of feeling disrespected by others, as if the disrespectful connection is because the others aren't capable of it- and I wouldn't call anything that feels like that, a major 5 pitfal, to be a part of 'integration'.)



*At least, that's what it's like for me.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
Interesting. It has something to do with integrating to 8, or being in the process of integrating to 8, you think? Is there a certain tendency of, in situation where conflict is simmering under the surface, to call people on their bullshit, like in the video above?

The counterphobic demeanor I think is related to integration, yes. Especially when that demeanor is not due to a prickly defense and withdrawal but of the 5 "putting himself in to" a situation more robustly, like you see in the video. He doesn't get testy and shut down/withdraw, which can be seen as counterphobic, but he asserts the right of his own will, interjects himself into a dynamic situation with confidence. I like this scene as an illustration so much because it highlights a good spectrum of the 5 experience. It's filmed in such a way that highlights the overstimulating nature of some social experiences. He "lights up" when engaged on his area of expertise than could be construed as extraverted, but then deflates when he's interrupted and the environment again moves away from him. However, when pressed again he asserts his opinion in a more forceful, different extraverted "flavor" and puts himself at the center of the environment rather than just being an observer. He takes ownership and command of his immediate emotion, etc.

I think it's less about calling people on their bullshit and more about just taking ownership of your own mind, will, emotions and getting it out there, ceasing your withholding. Calling people on BS can be part of that, but like Z-Buck says, "integration" should have more positive effects in your connection with the world than it means just arguing with people.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,447
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
When it's just bitterly pointing stuff out, it's like those observations have accumulated and reached a boiling point*- even though it's acting outwards, which might otherwise seem like a healthy move for 5s- it's still lacking appropriate/respectful connection to others. (Largely it's a matter of feeling disrespected by others, as if the disrespectful connection is because the others aren't capable of it- and I wouldn't call anything that feels like that, a major 5 pitfal, to be a part of 'integration'.)

You are correct in that there can be something aggressive about it that is not healthy. I think I did this a lot over the weekend, actually.


I think it's less about calling people on their bullshit and more about just taking ownership of your own mind, will, emotions and getting it out there, ceasing your withholding. Calling people on BS can be part of that, but like Z-Buck says, "integration" should have more positive effects in your connection with the world than it means just arguing with people.

Ceasing withholding is certainly important... it is easy for that to just manifest as aggression, though. Usually I think that when I do this, there's an assumption that the other person won't listen, or will shout out my ideas.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,053
MBTI Type
NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I agree, it's dumb that only 6s get to be counterphobic. Every type has counter-type tendencies, and fear types that move against this are counterphobic.

I guess a cp5 would study what s/he feared rather than a tangential theoretical topic, or openly disseminate knowledge rather than hoard it. Just a thought.
 

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
uhh, acting while completely unprepared? acting on as few facts as possible?

Maybe that's counterphobic ESFJ. A counterphobic ESFJ is nothing like a 6w9.

penis.
 

Haven

Blind Guardian
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
1,075
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
2w3
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
What would a counterphobic 2 do?

Take credit for everything and feeling grander, or take credit for nothing and feeling lesser... Something like that. It's not humility in either case because it's an inaccurate sense of self.
 
Top