[Type 6] Ask a CP6...

[greenfairy]

what does 'existential anxiety' mean to you?

not just by definition, but does it resonate in a personal way? why?

It doesn't particularly resonate with me, unless you mean feeling like reality isn't real and everything is meaningless. But I only really feel that way when my bad trip experiences surface. (For the record I haven't had a ton of those- just enough to freak me out a little.)

 

[Starry]

I actually would have been somewhat surprised if my NFJ description resonated much to an e6 CP. (As I've told [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] before, she seems more ENFJ to me precisely because of what I explained in the post she quoted above- I'm going to admit, I wondered if that's why my post resonated more than anything to do with e6ness.)

I think both have that "palpable wall" mentioned in the other thread, and I do think being e6 pushes Pe dom/aux to have Pi-ish tendencies- but I do think what I was describing was an NFJ thing. NFPs are more detached, generally. [Of course, what I'm seeing in Starry may very well be e6 influence on ENFP. ]

It's late but I fear if I don't say this now I'll forget. In case it is/was confusing in any way...I'm not making a comparison between Ni and counterphobia. That description/post of yours however I relate to extraordinarily well and am interested in understanding why. What you describe is...well...precisely what occurs for me when I react. My experience is: I know there is something wrong...and I know that no one is going to see the map if I were to try and explain it. And so any kind of reasoning with people is out the window at that point in my mind and so I go into destruction mode and I will kick until I believe I've kicked down what needs to be kicked down (or I completely exhaust myself but most of the time I believe I can break things up enough with merely a couple of blows.) And I know people that don't see things the way I do are thinking "wtf, why is Starry...?" <-And I don't really give a shit because I know what I'm doing.

I'm trying to be very honest about this process.

Why am I like this? I do not believe I'm ENFJ. Do I make high use of Ni? Umm...I don't know how to look at this really. Is Ni its own function or is Intuition on an introverted/extroverted continuum? Is it because I was born into a crazy Ni family and needed to learn how to use this function in order to fulfill my destiny and become crazy just like them? <-okay I'm totally kidding haha...but I needed to do something in order to understand them that's for sure.

I'm just interested in understanding this all.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

what does 'existential anxiety' mean to you?

not just by definition, but does it resonate in a personal way? why?

What does existential anxiety mean to me? Idk, a mini-crisis of anxiety stemming from a question that has no answers? Like a philisophical anxiety. "How did we get here?" Etc. Then feeling unease about not having definiteness.

I don't really know but I know that it doesn't resonate with me in terms of being CP, if that's the definition I'm going with.

What's your definition? Maybe I could connect better with it then?

Why? Because with reacting I don't think much is outside my realm of influence. I would be reacting because something *can* be done...there may be a lot of contingencies built in, but it's not out of my hands, so to speak. (Whether or not all contingencies fall into place is another matter).

I think existential anxiety has a built in distance between what can be known and what can be done.

So, I see you relating them on that level but that term doesn't give me any real resonation.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

My experience is: I know there is something wrong...and I know that no one is going to see the map if I were to try and explain it.

And so any kind of reasoning with people is out the window at that point in my mind and so I go into destruction mode and I will kick until I believe I've kicked down what needs to be kicked down (or I completely exhaust myself but most of the time I believe I can break things up enough with merely a couple of blows.) And I know people that don't see things the way

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

I can relate to this, fwiw. Could this be the product of a cp6 wing? I think it could. Not sure if that wing backs up Fi in a defensive way, right?

Like, your values and thoughts are YOU.

Mine are mine. But while our thoughts/values are individual, very different between what steps on our toes, right?

The reactions to them stepped toes may be CP in expression.

 

[Virtual ghost]

ENTJ can have a naturally aggressive style of communication but it's the sureness in what they are saying, even if they may be just "stating the facts as they see it" that can just hit that CP6 button. Immediately, they think "No that's not correct/You don't have all the facts to say that yet/You aren't leaving room for the other POV/How can you know/ etc. Long story short, you may be unknowingly pushing their buttons. Or your natural interaction style may do that as well. [/B]

Why ?
I was rised by 6w7 father, 7w6 mother, 6w7 grandmother and education syetem that heavily favours head type apprach. But eventually I admited to myself that this doesn't work for me and that I am 8w9 that is completely in 5w6 Sp mode, in order that I don't have to listen to the paranoia talk and deal with all those pointless reactive sceenes and random data. Also that was a good way to camouflage myself in my environment.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Why ?
I was rised by 6w7 father, 7w6 mother, 6w7 grandmother and education syetem that heavily favours head type apprach. But eventually I admited to myself that this doesn't work for me and that I am 8w9 that is completely in 5w6 Sp mode, in order that I don't have to listen to the paranoia talk and deal with all those pointless reactive sceenes and random data. Also that was a good way to camouflage myself in my environment.

I don't understand your question fully. More specifically, where you need me to expand from the quoted post. Can you give more info?

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I like your "palpable wall" example

I'm pretty sure that's actually yours! (From that other thread, I'd responded to a post where you'd used it.) But yeah, it's very apt.

and the Pe to have Pi ish tendencies. I think this is where overlap can be seen but again, I'm really wondering if you didn't inadvertently shed some light on NFJ CP ness.

Do you have experience with CP xNFJ's to share your experiences with as far as differences or similarities?

In the post [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] quoted, I was trying to describe (as I perceive it) an internal reaction that seems specific to NFJs. For the purpose of helping highlander come up with questions that might parse out the INFJs. I'd not built it on experience of e6 CP NFJs per se, I'm not sure I know any all that well outside of possibly being w6 myself. I'm going on what I've observed tends to 'hook' or shenpa (on phone, can't link explanation for shenpa but it's worth googling) NFJ brethren.

I mean, ALL people/types have hooks. The condition of having one's limbic system firing off before the conscious mind knows why it's happening is universal. (There have been studies, science is with me on this.) But I think it would be a valid theory to say the kind of stimuli that hooks us might be type related.

Starry- I can't say with much certainty, but it *seems* to me like the thing that hooks NFPs is more about expressed judgments. Like, the limbic system causes a strong reaction when external values of <whatever> don't match internal values? My threshold for trying to type out ideas on tiny shitty phone keypad & screen has run out- gonna hope that makes sense for now.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't understand your question fully. More specifically, where you need me to expand from the quoted post. Can you give more info?

The question is quite simple: Why is ENTJ style of communication likely to push buttons of CP 6 ? (everything else in my post i just simplistic framework of why I ask)

 

[Z Buck McFate]

This is how I feel about counterphobic 6w5s and their testing. Oh god, the testing.

Yeah. Even sometimes with the phobic too. This would make for a good thread unto itself.

 

[Forever]

@Starry
You can never splain to an eNFJ 6w5cp why they're the way they are.

Remember when it comes to perceptive functions:
Introversion: focusing on how the outer event affects you.
Extroversion: interacting with the outer event. You are consumed by what's outside of you.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

The question is quite simple: Why is ENTJ style of communication likely to push buttons of CP 6 ? (everything else in my post i just simplistic framework of why I ask)

Well, I answered that in the post you quoted but I will expand.

I will clarify somewhat. The post you quoted me on, I was talking to/about a specific member. That members style has a more aggressive approach? And happens to be ENTJ. So, my response was geared toward that members interaction style.

I'll take the time now to say I don't see this specifically as *just* an ENTJ thing. Or any type, really. More a *trait* some ENTJ's share with other people/types.

More so, how I see it? Being confident in one's approach is one thing. Being confident to the point of dismissal of value of other options/opinions can come off as arrogance.

Maybe it's just me, but I would guess a lot of CP's see that and bristle because something about it (whether they are reading it correctly or not) feels very inegalitarian.

The whole testing thing comes into play, we question "How is this person so certain? Tell me" And so on.

I think it can come off as paranoid and accusing but it's based in, I think, needing reassurance to trust in outside/internal sources.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well, I answered that in the post you quoted but I will expand.

I will clarify somewhat. The post you quoted me on, I was talking to/about a specific member. That members style has a more aggressive approach? And happens to be ENTJ. So, my response was geared toward that members interaction style.

I'll take the time now to say I don't see this specifically as *just* an ENTJ thing. Or any type, really. More a *trait* some ENTJ's share with other people/types.

More so, how I see it? Being confident in one's approach is one thing. Being confident to the point of dismissal of value of other options/opinions can come off as arrogance.

Maybe it's just me, but I would guess a lot of CP's see that and bristle because something about it (whether they are reading it correctly or not) feels very inegalitarian.

The whole testing thing comes into play, we question "How is this person so certain? Tell me" And so on.

I think it can come off as paranoid and accusing but it's based in, I think, needing reassurance to trust in outside/internal sources.

The people in my story/environment were emotionally unstabile Fs. Therefore just sitting down and asking a few simple questions about the actual problem that is obviously ahead of us or something about obvious lack of efficiency can be enough to throw some of those people out of balance. In the case I did something trully wrong to them I would understand but this is just dumb when it happens. Ok I get it, situation obviuosly scares you but it will only get worse if we don't do something about it. Also it happned that I attracted a few girls that seem to be e6, but they were too scared to commit. ( I even got that confessed openly so it is not just my imagination)


6 can totally block any change to the point that everything will surely go wrong and I simply don't see why 6 creates those self-fulfiling prophecies in which everything will go wrong. On the other hand they can charge at the problem when they are not ready. Either there is block of charge mode, while systematic and logical problem solving does not occur to the 6s that I have met. Why push everything to the extreme when that can be avoided ?


(I understand that this is in alot of ways Sx-Sp conflict)

 

[á´…eparted]

6's and 1's (particularly sp 1's it seems) can sometimes be confused with one another, and it's something I considered in the past with myself. Ultimately one of the thing that helped delineate it was perfectionism. So for cp6's, what are your thoughts and relationship with perfectionism? I'm curious what it's like on that side.

 

[Starry]

I'm pretty sure that's actually yours! (From that other thread, I'd responded to a post where you'd used it.) But yeah, it's very apt.



In the post [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] quoted, I was trying to describe (as I perceive it) an internal reaction that seems specific to NFJs. For the purpose of helping highlander come up with questions that might parse out the INFJs. I'd not built it on experience of e6 CP NFJs per se, I'm not sure I know any all that well outside of possibly being w6 myself. I'm going on what I've observed tends to 'hook' or shenpa (on phone, can't link explanation for shenpa but it's worth googling) NFJ brethren.

I mean, ALL people/types have hooks. The condition of having one's limbic system firing off before the conscious mind knows why it's happening is universal. (There have been studies, science is with me on this.) But I think it would be a valid theory to say the kind of stimuli that hooks us might be type related.

Starry- I can't say with much certainty, but it *seems* to me like the thing that hooks NFPs is more about expressed judgments. Like, the limbic system causes a strong reaction when external values of <whatever> don't match internal values? My threshold for trying to type out ideas on tiny shitty phone keypad & screen has run out- gonna hope that makes sense for now.

So many great posts from everyone I love it. Of course I got busy today wth? Like, the day before I was really sick to my stomach and kinda hung out in bed all day because every time I got up I thought I would throw up. Yah...not a lot of interesting posts on that day. Today, however...


So basically it's about operating on assumption. I mean, I've sat back and judged the NFJs that say "I'm never wrong"...yah. All while knowing I'm never wrong. I'm proud of that.

But I'm the real "never wrong" Z Buck

 

[Starry]

@Starry
You can never splain to an eNFJ 6w5cp why they're the way they are.

Remember when it comes to perceptive functions:
Introversion: focusing on how the outer event affects you.
Extroversion: interacting with the outer event. You are consumed by what's outside of you.

You are so sweet.

 

[gromit]

E6:

Tell me about "testing" what is it and why you do it

And how it is different from how others/other types might "test"

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

6's and 1's (particularly sp 1's it seems) can sometimes be confused with one another, and it's something I considered in the past with myself. Ultimately one of the thing that helped delineate it was perfectionism. So for cp6's, what are your thoughts and relationship with perfectionism? I'm curious what it's like on that side.

Glad to see this post. I agree that they can look similar!

My mom is an E1 and before I had her take the test, I thought she was a phobic 6. She has always had a lot of anxiety.

Now, looking back I see where I typed her wrong and what you say about perfectionism plays into that. Also, the fact I *saw* anxiety is a clue that she probably wasn't a 6.

Something I ask in Enneagram typing (if I'm doing it myself) is: What enneagram motivation DON'T I see in the forefront of this person?

I saw her anxiety, I didn't see a lot of anger from her.

I don't know a lot about 1's but I think what they have in common with 6's is kind of a focus on control.

I see that control -of anger/extremes - in 1's perfectionism.

6's in control of - fear - in anticipating it (CP) or implementing safeguards (phobic) against it.

I have so many other anecdotal similarities I see: I won't say this is for all 1's or 6's but this is what I see between my mom and myself:

She uses hierarchal structure because it defines what is appropriate. She knows what is expected. I think she measures herself against these things internally. Whether she buys in or not, I'm not sure. BUT when she does?? She does with passion and conviction. The reformer/crusader comes into play here.

I think 1's are looking FOR something to put their "inappropriate" (self-deemed) feelings and channel that into "appropriate" outlets. Once they have the outlet, they feel free, more at peace.

(She's also ISTJ so...overlap here, I'm sure)

I use hierarchal structure to question myself and my beliefs, it's a jumping off point. Should I buy in? Should I not? How much? It's always oscillating. I'm NEVER going to buy in fully. Not like a 1 does, at least because the very nature of my motivation prevents full committment I'm just happy it's there.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Glad to see this post. I agree that they can look similar!

My mom is an E1 and before I had her take the test, I thought she was a phobic 6. She has always had a lot of anxiety.

Now, looking back I see where I typed her wrong and what you say about perfectionism plays into that. Also, the fact I *saw* anxiety is a clue that she probably wasn't a 6.

Something I ask in Enneagram typing (if I'm doing it myself) is: What enneagram motivation DON'T I see in the forefront of this person?

I saw her anxiety, I didn't see a lot of anger from her.

I don't know a lot about 1's but I think what they have in common with 6's is kind of a focus on control.

I see that control -of anger/extremes - in 1's perfectionism.

6's in control of - fear - in anticipating it (CP) or implementing safeguards (phobic) against it.

I have so many other anecdotal similarities I see: I won't say this is for all 1's or 6's but this is what I see between my mom and myself:

She uses hierarchal structure because it defines what is appropriate. She knows what is expected. I think she measures herself against these things internally. Whether she buys in or not, I'm not sure. BUT when she does?? She does with passion and conviction. The reformer/crusader comes into play here.

I think 1's are looking FOR something to put their "inappropriate" (self-deemed) feelings and channel that into "appropriate" outlets. Once they have the outlet, they feel free, more at peace.

(She's also ISTJ so...overlap here, I'm sure)

I use hierarchal structure to question myself and my beliefs, it's a jumping off point. Should I buy in? Should I not? How much? It's always oscillating. I'm NEVER going to buy in fully. Not like a 1 does, at least because the very nature of my motivation prevents full committment I'm just happy it's there.

I am not convinced that your mother is 1.

Taking the test doesn't trully prove anything and your mother may still be mistyped 6 form what you just wrote, especially if the difference between types was small. If she is indeed ISTJ then the odds are that she is 1 with 6 fix or 6 with 1 fix. (and that can be easy to missinterpret, especially if you are P person)

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I am not convinced that your mother is 1.

Taking the test doesn't trully prove anything and your mother may still be mistyped 6 form what you just wrote, especially if the difference between types was small. If she is indeed ISTJ then the odds are that she is 1 with 6 fix or 6 with 1 fix. (and that can be easy to missinterpret, especially if you are P person)

I respect your opinion but disagree. My mom is E1. I get you are talking about tritype.

----
Can you add your experience with similarities or differences of 1's and 6's that you see?

 

[Starry]

6's and 1's (particularly sp 1's it seems) can sometimes be confused with one another, and it's something I considered in the past with myself. Ultimately one of the thing that helped delineate it was perfectionism. So for cp6's, what are your thoughts and relationship with perfectionism? I'm curious what it's like on that side.

Hard, what causes e1s to react in anger? I mean, I know exactly what you are talking about but don't fully understand the mechanism. Like, for me it's perceived injustice...people being exploited, bullied, treated like trash. What exactly is it for the 1s?

Perfectionism makes me uncomfortable because I don't feel it's possible and feel to strive for it is imperfect.