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[Type 8] Why is there so much bullshit out there about enneagram 8's? (Rant)

Azure Flame

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What is with all these fake experts on enneagram who tell enneagram 8's they are actually counterphobic 6's? Why do I feel like when I tell people online that I'm an enneagram 8, there is this sudden rush for everyone to tell me that I'm not? How come the only time I've had a healthy enneagram 8 discussion of our weaknesses and lack of self awareness was when I found a secret forum of just 8's who talk about such things?

Why did I get banned from personality cafe for arguing with people over my type?

[hostile comments removed]

Since when is another person's enneagram type someone else's business other than their own?

Why do people on personalitycafe and the16types.info tell enneagram 8's that their 8 traits of self forgetfulness are actually counterphobic 6 traits of self doubt?

What the fuck is going on? Why do I have people following me across the internet challenging me and telling me I'm less than what I am? Why does my ENFJ friend constantly try to convince me I'm a weak and dependant person?

How come so many enneagram 8's across the internet know exactly what I'm talking about?

[comments related to other forum removed]

It is absolutely frustrating to me that I have to be invited to a secret group on facebook in order to have healthy enneagram 8 discussions. Its is absolutely frustrating to me that everyone on the internet other than 8's themselves seem to think we are these walking gods among mortals. its is absolutely frustrating to me that the only people on the internet who seem to know everything about 8's,

ARE NOT 8'S THEMSELVES
 
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Standuble

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The answer is....personalitycafe. I like the site for its own sake but it is a macabre orgy of mistypes, misidentification and misinformation. Go into any one of the IN forums there. They're seriously like wading through rivers of effluence. There are mistypes in every orifice and in turn they are using each other as benchmarks of "the typical xyz" and from there criticising others who do not fit the mould. It is unfortunate that some start to become immune to the possibility of being mistypes themselves. Heck two of the mods there were mistyped for a long time (though I personally think they're cool and that alone doesn't bother me very much).

An analogy I would use would be bee hives where the inhabitants start making bizarre buzzing noises. The noise is a result of a non fatal illness and it spreads through the hive and neighbouring ones. Later on some chump comes along and believes that because all the bees are utilising a retarded buzz that this is typical behaviour and classifies it as such without stopping to ask whether there is actually something wrong with all the bees.

My advice mate would be to ask them where they got their information from. Citations and sources please!
 

Azure Flame

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The answer is....personalitycafe. I like the site for its own sake but it is a macabre orgy of mistypes, misidentification and misinformation. Go into any one of the IN forums there. They're seriously like wading through rivers of effluence. There are mistypes in every orifice and in turn they are using each other as benchmarks of "the typical xyz" and from there criticising others who do not fit the mould. It is unfortunate that some start to become immune to the possibility of being mistypes themselves. Heck two of the mods there were mistyped for a long time (though I personally think they're cool and that alone doesn't bother me very much).

An analogy I would use would be bee hives where the inhabitants start making bizarre buzzing noises. The noise is a result of a non fatal illness and it spreads through the hive and neighbouring ones. Later on some chump comes along and believes that because all the bees are utilising a retarded buzz that this is typical behaviour and classifies it as such without stopping to ask whether there is actually something wrong with all the bees.

My advice mate would be to ask them where they got their information from. Citations and sources please!

TELL ME ABOUT IT!

I feel like a crazy person.

So cray.
 

Standuble

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TELL ME ABOUT IT!

I feel like a crazy person.

I think what you should do would be to make some duplicate or sock puppet accounts for Personalitycafe and then post long rants on the various forums there. I would suggest writing them all out in Microsoft Word so you can go on a blitzkrieg before they can even register they are under attack. From what I understand they can't delete threads over there, they can only lock them. If they remain on the site indefinitely then I'm sure it will teach those wet behind the ears mongrels a thing or two.
 

Azure Flame

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I think what you should do would be to make some duplicate or sock puppet accounts for Personalitycafe and then post long rants on the various forums there. I would suggest writing them all out in Microsoft Word so you can go on a blitzkrieg before they can even register they are under attack. From what I understand they can't delete threads over there, they can only lock them. If they remain on the site indefinitely then I'm sure it will teach those wet behind the ears mongrels a thing or two.

Sounds like fun, But ultimately sounds juvenile.

nice try
 

Haven

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Join the club of misunderstood types, we got some 2s and 3s in here already, could use a few 8s.
 

ceecee

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What is with all these fake experts on enneagram who tell enneagram 8's they are actually counterphobic 6's? Why do I feel like when I tell people online that I'm an enneagram 8, there is this sudden rush for everyone to tell me that I'm not? How come the only time I've had a healthy enneagram 8 discussion of our weaknesses and lack of self awareness was when I found a secret forum of just 8's who talk about such things?

Why did I get banned from personality cafe for arguing with people over my type?

How come people like [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] and that entp fucker act like they know what the fuck they are talking about when in fact its all complete horse shit? how come on personality cafe there is a clique of idiots who swarm 8's and tell them they are not what they think they are?

Since when is another person's enneagram type someone else's business other than their own?

Why do people on personalitycafe and the16types.info tell enneagram 8's that their 8 traits of self forgetfulness are actually counterphobic 6 traits of self doubt?

What the fuck is going on? Why do I have people following me across the internet challenging me and telling me I'm less than what I am? Why does my ENFJ friend constantly try to convince me I'm a weak and dependant person?

How come so many enneagram 8's across the internet know exactly what I'm talking about?

This is bullshit, apparently my youtube subscribers are getting banned on personalitycafe for posting my videos. They also have my name blocked out on the website.

It is absolutely frustrating to me that I have to be invited to a secret group on facebook in order to have healthy enneagram 8 discussions. Its is absolutely frustrating to me that everyone on the internet other than 8's themselves seem to think we are these walking gods among mortals. its is absolutely frustrating to me that the only people on the internet who seem to know everything about 8's,

ARE NOT 8'S THEMSELVES

A real 8 wouldn't give a shit about any of this ^^.
 

Elfboy

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What is with all these fake experts on enneagram who tell enneagram 8's they are actually counterphobic 6's? Why do I feel like when I tell people online that I'm an enneagram 8, there is this sudden rush for everyone to tell me that I'm not? How come the only time I've had a healthy enneagram 8 discussion of our weaknesses and lack of self awareness was when I found a secret forum of just 8's who talk about such things?
Why did I get banned from personality cafe for arguing with people over my type?
you got banned for harassing members and making fake accounts (for the sake of proving you were an 8), not debating people about what is/is not a type 8.

[hostility removed]

I will agree there are some rude people who like to harass people about their type, but there is a difference between this and simply suggesting that someone is mistyped.

Since when is another person's enneagram type someone else's business other than their own?
when they are spreading around misinformation about the type, it is certainly other people's business. also, your type is not some rape incident that is too private to be discussed. people question my type all the time (most people here think I'm either 3w4 or 7w8), but the only time this bothers me is when they are disrespectful about it. speaking for myself, I'd much rather save the butthurt for the bedroom :tongue:

Why do people on personalitycafe and the16types.info tell enneagram 8's that their 8 traits of self forgetfulness are actually counterphobic 6 traits of self doubt?
1) because, many times, they are. granted, I will agree that the witch hunting is quite excessive sometimes (especially on typewatch. cuz dayum)
2) 8s are not self forgetting unless they have a strong 9 wing. being self forgetting is more of a 9, 2 or Sp last thing.

What the fuck is going on? Why do I have people following me across the internet challenging me and telling me I'm less than what I am?
you don't. you simply have a provocative communication style (you're a core reactive type, a Beta extrovert and an Sx dom, this is to be expected)

Why does my ENFJ friend constantly try to convince me I'm a weak and dependant person?
for reasons unrelated to this forum.

How come so many enneagram 8's across the internet know exactly what I'm talking about?
do they?

It is absolutely frustrating to me that I have to be invited to a secret group on facebook in order to have healthy enneagram 8 discussions. Its is absolutely frustrating to me that everyone on the internet other than 8's themselves seem to think we are these walking gods among mortals.
this is true sometimes, but you are also projecting. many people type at 8 because they see them as much more ideal than they actually are. this is why I make sure to note the less appealing aspects of 8 (sadism, impulsivity, antisocial tendencies etc) when describing them.

its is absolutely frustrating to me that the only people on the internet who seem to know everything about 8's,
ARE NOT 8'S THEMSELVES
what type they are is irrelevant. any type can gain an understanding of the Enneagram
 
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Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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Well, [MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION], to be honest, I feel your pain.

I am aware of what's happened to you in the past, but I will reserve judgement on your core type at this point (though, to be fair, the others are raising a very fair point--why is this bothering you so much?).

Still, judgments are reserved. Why? Because I went through more or less the same thing--there are websites out there where literally everyone is convinced I'm a 6w7/9w8/4w3. I'm not "allowed" being a core 4 with an 8-fix--the things that make me identify with both 4 and 8 somehow prove I'm a 6. My withdrawn attitudes/lack of an ability to care about petty online disputes means I have a 9-fix. My identity issues mean I'm an indecisive twat. My Burger King crown means I'm ruler of the world. Right.

So yeah, I feel your pain, and for that reason I will refrain from commenting on your core type at this point in time.

I think you do raise a good question, and I'd like to comment on it. Why is there such resistance to people being 8s or 8-fixed? As alluded to, I've witnessed this (on several websites actually). I've noticed the resistance mainly comes from non-8s and non-8-fixers, for whatever reason. It is based on words written (often carelessly) in posts, rather than from private one-to-one IRL interaction (which is a far more natural mode of interaction--and probably more accurate for typing purposes--than written posts, which are prone to, among other things, error in interpretation).

Yes, there is a contingent out there utterly convinced that nearly everyone is a 6 who "just can't admit it". There are several websites that are notorious for this, and I'm sorry to say that I was embroiled in this at one point, myself. I was brainwashed and once thought the same--I now have the perspective to see the truth. And I think you're onto something.

And yes, there are truly obnoxious people who will bully you over this point. I've heard this complaint from more than one person. (**Note that I do not consider anyone commenting on this thread to be guilty of this.**) Frankly, it is my experience that certain communities have some sort of vested interest in people being certain types, and some--not ALL--individuals make it their personal mission to force you to be a Type X (which, obviously, is generally not type 8).

I furthermore have found that 8s are often portrayed as monsters who came into this world, hard, brutal, and unfeeling, dripping blood from fangs and whose sole lesson in life is to cease being a monster and become a human being (like how other types "already" are). Even 8-fixers are supposed to show absolute invulnerability and NEVER back down or change their minds (speaking as a human being and withdrawn type, this is NOT always true).

I had trouble seeing myself as an 8-fixer for awhile after joining an online community, because of the rarified levels of unyielding inhumanity and barbarism which are supposed to be inherent in average 8s. I am not God, nor do I think I am. Therefore, I cannot possibly be an 8-fixer, and nearly everyone agreed.

And yes, there are self-proclaimed experts out there who may or may not understand the literature they espouse and will use their interpretations against you in a very high-handed manner.

My suggestion to you, DJ, is to read up on the major works (Naranjo, Helen Palmer, Riso and Hudson, and Maitri are all considered reliable mainstream sources). I mean really read up on the enneagram--the entire enneagram, not just type 8. This is the only way you will be able to take these people on and argue your points. Beat them at their own game.

The thing NOT to do is go on rants clearly designed to create drama. That will not serve your purposes and, indeed, has already weakened your arguments. Your viewpoint will simply not be respected if you simply react against the nay-sayers all the time with little to back up your claims. If you want to do justice--and I certainly want you to because I see much truth in your words--then know your Advanced Enneagram shit and direct it at the appropriate parties.

I wish you good luck, sir.
 
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011235813

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I think there's a tendency to view types 4, 5, and 8 as limited membership clubs. You have to jump through hoops to prove you can sit at the cool kids' table.

I tried sitting with the 5s but they weren't having any of it. They were right ... I'm really not a core 5. But that doesn't change the fact that people who adopt those labels have to fight harder to prove their point than someone who just says "Oh, I'm a 9, herp derp flurp."
 

Elfboy

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I think you do raise a good question, and I'd like to comment on it. Why is there such resistance to people being 8s or 8-fixed? As alluded to, I've witnessed this (on several websites actually). I've noticed the resistance mainly comes from non-8s and non-8-fixers
as I said to DJ, the type of the accuser (or, more accurately, the "suggester") is irrelevant. with any type, there will be big giveaways that a person is mistyped. some common traits that give away someone not being an 8 are if they're conflict avoidant (9 fixer) or extremely moralistic (1 fixer). there will be a few exceptions to this obviously (for example, my mom is a 2w1 with an 8w7 fix, and she's pretty fuckin moralistic LOL), but it's often blatantly clear someone is mistyped and I don't think there is anything wrong with bringing it to their attention.

personally, I call out people of all types if I think they're mistyped (at the moment, I'm actually conversing with someone mistyped as a 6 and explaining to him why he is an obvious 1 XD). one PerC, I'm far more notorious for overtyping 2s and telling 7s that they're mistyped (like, when people say they're really self forgetting and constantly focused on other people. that's 2/9/p6) than I am witch hunting mistyped 6s

as it pertains to 8s, the main problem is twofold
1) most 8 descriptions are absolutely dreadful and don't capture what it is actually about at all.
2) most 6 descriptions are terrible and make most 6s sound like Sp/So ISFJs with a 9 fix.

it is based on words written (often carelessly) in posts, rather than from private one-to-one IRL interaction (which is a far more natural mode of interaction--and probably more accurate for typing purposes--than written posts, which are prone to, among other things, error in interpretation).
this is a good point, but, at the same time, people's personalities come across online more than they think, and it's the "careless" comments that are often the most revealing about a person (of course, I'm not suggesting people go all conspiracy theorist/crazy detective with it and project all manner of intentions onto a comment with multiple valid interpretations. that's just stupid)
 
S

Stansmith

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He seems like an 8 to me, unless he's bluffing about his alpha male/assertive characteristics. He's about as defensive and reactive as Tony Soprano.
 

kyuuei

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I think there's a tendency to view types 4, 5, and 8 as limited membership clubs. You have to jump through hoops to prove you can sit at the cool kids' table.

Better start jumping! (But srsly. I get people all the time feeling like a great injustice has occurred because I'm an ENFP type 8.. Regardless of the fact the two systems are separate ones. Other ENFP type 8s on the forum too? NOPE. NOPE.)

as it pertains to 8s, the main problem is twofold
1) most 8 descriptions are absolutely dreadful and don't capture what it is actually about at all.
2) most 6 descriptions are terrible and make most 6s sound like Sp/So ISFJs with a 9 fix.

Really and truly this is accurate. One of two things always happen: 1. The type 8 description sounds exactly what what people think they want to be, instead of highlighting the balance in the type. It has some great merits, and not very common ones in society.. it is easy to see a type 8 as being a sort of advantage in daily life to those that really admire the description while conveniently ignoring all of the garbage that comes with that description. And 2. The type 8 sounds like this awful, possessive, OCD, power-hungry villain.. Which may also attract people to it for their own reasons.

Type 6 always sounds like garbage though. We really need some great sales people to sell type 6's their own type. Even they don't want to write about it. :laugh:
 

Elfboy

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Really and truly this is accurate. One of two things always happen: 1. The type 8 description sounds exactly what what people think they want to be, instead of highlighting the balance in the type.
It has some great merits, and not very common ones in society.. it is easy to see a type 8 as being a sort of advantage in daily life to those that really admire the description while conveniently ignoring all of the garbage that comes with that description.
^this is why I mistyped at 8 (many 1s, 3s, cp6s and 7s could easily relate to their 8 description). I was all like "I crave independence and like to protect the weak, so I must be an 8". even the Wisdom of the Enneagram description reinforced this notion, but it wasn't until I dived into material covering the neuroses of the types that I discovered there was no way in hell I was an 8.

And 2. The type 8 sounds like this awful, possessive, OCD, power-hungry villain.. Which may also attract people to it for their own reasons.
this is more appealing than the first one (especially to a 6 or 7 lol). either way, the instinctual nature, impulsivity and Darwinistic outlook of 8 are typically either ignored or poorly explained (for example, there is a lot of talk about 8s and revenge, but it's different from the vengeance of other types because it is ego vengeance. every type can be harmed and want retribution, the difference is, with 8s, vengeance is a world outlook as much as a situational compulsion. they feel like the world has already wronged them/screwed them over and project this vengeance in various ways).

Type 6 always sounds like garbage though. We really need some great sales people to sell type 6's their own type. Even they don't want to write about it. :laugh:
we should hire Chuck Norris or 50 Cent for that :tongue:
 
S

Stansmith

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I can't say there's anything overwhelmingly positive about being a phobic 6 besides staying out of trouble and being generally pleasant to be around. I'm satisfied with it nonetheless.
 
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