[Type 4] 4w5 dark impulsiveness

[Alight owl]

What does that look like?

I've heard that in stressful situations / depressions, the 4w5 can exhibit a sort of dark impulsiveness. I have recently been reading Dostoevsky's Notes from the Underground and he talks about it too - he goes to brothels by cover of night, alone, solitary, all the while pushing people away from him (namely, all his family and friends) until he had nothing left whatsoever.

So it's making me think. the only way that I have ever broken up with a person is extremely impulsively. I'll start to get depressed, and then feel trapped, especially because I let a lot of things slide in relationships (things that hurt my feelings, but that I'm scared to talk about for fear of being melodramatic and also because I really generally don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. at all.). It will take over my life, to the point that I can't think about things except for how horribly the relationship is going,

and then poof. no warning.
I'll just break up with the guy.
I won't even see it coming, except for like, a day before it happens.

Usually it's accompanied by a letter that explains all the problems that I have seen in our relationship from the start, and apologizes profusely for hurting him. I'll feel terrible about it afterward, but at the time, there is this inability to see that I'm destroying something beautiful and myself along with it. I also can't see a path out of it - it's the ONLY way (in my delusional mind, at the time). I just turn off and sort of explode out all of the pain that I've had over the course of the relationship. (and then I'll usually go into a depressive funk for several months afterward, blaming myself for 'breaking' someone else).

Luckily Im married now, so things are a little different, but...

Is this something akin to the dark impulsiveness that people are talking about when they talk about unhealthy 4w5? What about everyone else? Do you experience it as well? How?

 

[OrangeAppled]

Push people away with withdrawal and very bad moods and just not keeping in contact.
Recklessness/indulgence - nothing too extreme..
General irresponsible behavior - again not too extreme, but probably looks flaky or disrespectful.

I've never done anything like the OP. Instead I do a self-rejection. I don't feel like I've ever broken anyone else. I tend to feel like breaking myself more as a lesson to teach others, to make them regret destroying something "beautiful" by ignoring or not valuing it. The other behaviors tend to stem from that. It's kind of just "giving up" for me, but there is something impulsive about it because I can be chugging along & then just want to trash all the results, deeming them meaningless - nothing in relation to the effort put in.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Push people away with withdrawal and very bad moods and just not keeping in contact.
Recklessness/indulgence - nothing too extreme..
General irresponsible behavior - again not too extreme, but probably looks flaky or disrespectful.

I've never done anything like the OP. Instead I do a self-rejection. I don't feel like I've ever broken anyone else. I tend to feel like breaking myself more as a lesson to teach others, to make them regret destroying something "beautiful" by ignoring or not valuing it. The other behaviors tend to stem from that. It's kind of just "giving up" for me, but there is something impulsive about it because I can be chugging along & then just want to trash all the results, deeming them meaningless - nothing in relation to the effort put in.

 

[Galena]

I've never done anything like the OP. Instead I do a self-rejection. I don't feel like I've ever broken anyone else. I tend to feel like breaking myself more as a lesson to teach others, to make them regret destroying something "beautiful" by ignoring or not valuing it. The other behaviors tend to stem from that. It's kind of just "giving up" for me, but there is something impulsive about it because I can be chugging along & then just want to trash all the results, deeming them meaningless - nothing in relation to the effort put in.

This is familiar. I once had to do a job that I thought was too much for me at the orders of people whose manner sickened me, and the circumstances offered no way to leave for a set period of time. I confess that my response under that duress was to push myself into physical overdrive in semi-conscious hope that I would fall ill, which would show them what was so cruel about their expectations. What ended up happening was that I learned I am physically capable of a lot more than I thought I was. When my body got tired or numb or shaky, I did not collapse. I could handle it. I moved on to become one of the most competent workers. However, there were signs that I was almost at the end of my safe limits when the period ended.

This revesal of my expectations of myself revealed that motivation to me for the first time, and I realized I had done similar things to deal with situations in the past. It doesn't have to be physical work; as a kid, it was often just turning up the difficult emotions associated with a task until somebody saw me cry and nurtured me, apologized for their crudeness or made adjustments for me. Although sometimes it brought only contempt. Realizing what those who disapproved saw/what I really wanted was tough.

You can go numb to your true responsibility by looking at the past and just calling your behaviors sinister, evil, proof of your inborn brokenness. Inborn as in there is nothing that can be done/nothing you have to do about it.

 

[21%]

Oh yes. I have a wonderful family and a wonderful boyfriend and in real life I would never ever do anything to hurt them, but even at my healthiest, I still sometimes get that call from the dark bottomless pit to jump, to fall, to destroy everything just to feel it all come crashing down in shattered pieces.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

What's coming to mind most readily, is when I become impulsive about saying how I'm really feeling. I get powerful emotions that seek expression--as in, I feel like I'll explode unless I express myself to others, loudly. Usually, a very negative emotion, such as anger, or my own sorrows.

As soon as I've done that, I realize I've just been a dipshit again, have been completely inappropriate, am irrational, immature, and foolish, and that everyone is looking down on me and will reject me. So I run away, break off all engagements, and don't look back, 'cause I assume it's "all over now". Ridiculous, I know, but these are forces that control me rather than vice-versa. It's why I have the reputation (amongst those who know me) for "drama" (although I don't dare to assume that all 4w5s operate in exactly this manner).

I've made hasty decisions to dump whole groups and/or run away from entire countries once I go into "dark impulse mode". Luckily, things usually resolve themselves before I do any serious damage. Then I try to pretend the whole incident never happened.

 

[Tiltyred]

I think I have expressed it in the past by a near-compulsion to do things that were socially unacceptable, and a deep need to ... I don't know exactly how to put it, but ... get behind the surface. Draw away the veil. Like Dostoevsky's going to brothels in the dead of night -- the question of "What goes on in the night? What goes on in the underworld?" used to occupy my mind excessively, and when I was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to investigate it by seeking it out, being fascinated by people who were bad for me, things that were bad for me, situations that were dangerous, etc., and at some points in my life, with a real desire to be ruined, or at least get close enough to the right circumstances for it to be able to see what it would be like.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Delving into music with dark/emo themes, dark artwork, writing poetry with morbid and self-torturing themes, going toward self-sacrifice, martyr types of themes. Sometimes I feel like I'm becoming a goth when I get like that. Tendency to become very isolated from others, cynical about the world around me, yet I end up having a morbid curiosity towards the dark end of things, checking out the ills of society. It becomes an emotionally intense ride.

 

[Stigmata]

What does that look like?

I imagine something like this..

 

[sculpting]

. Instead I do a self-rejection. I don't feel like I've ever broken anyone else. I tend to feel like breaking myself more as a lesson to teach others, to make them regret destroying something "beautiful" by ignoring or not valuing it. The other behaviors tend to stem from that. It's kind of just "giving up" for me, but there is something impulsive about it because I can be chugging along & then just want to trash all the results, deeming them meaningless - nothing in relation to the effort put in.

When i was much younger (teens) i did this^

The additional thing was to cut others off cold if they hurt me....I still have to work EXTREMELY hard at not exerting at automatic cutoff if someone strikes too close to home. It is like I give them permission to reject me, via cutting myself off prematurely, before they have the chance to reject me. I hurt myself before they can?

Once I realized this, I try to work hard not to do it, but it is a temptation when I dont understand the structure of a relationship or the direction and I feel unsafe-I start to withdraw.

 

[Typh0n]

I think what the OP is talking about is not voicing problems in a relationship. I tend to do that, even though Im working on it to try and do it less. I guess I feel so much pain emotionally sometimes that I try and not hurt others feelings, which is also because I understand that domain(of feelings) well and feel responsible towards others in that area. I think its important to simply voice your concerns in a way that doesnt attack others, which is one of the things I have trouble doing.

 

[Alight owl]

Yeah, Typh0n - that's exactly what i'm saying.
I try to manage relationships so that the other person won't feel upset with me or the relationship. i think that if i can do that, then he won't leave me. I have a huge abandonment complex (usually i try to leave before being left, which also plays into this. when things get bad, i just tear us both apart and run away). And then all the management gets to be too much in my head, and it gets stuck in my body too. I'm left feeling like I've tiptoed around the other person for so long that he doesn't know who i am and really, neither do i anymore.

So in order to assert myself, I have to assert all that pent up aggression that's weighing down on me. I have to get it all out so it stops smothering the relationship. And the aggression is directed at myself and at my SO - I'll be angry with myself for allowing my boundaries to be breached (and for not trusting the other person with my real emotions) and angry at my SO for being fragile enough that I had to lie the whole time we were in relationship. It ends up feeling like i just blow up the world...

 

[Alight owl]

Your post makes me wonder if my behavior is more sx/sp --
I definitely don't feel like 'just' giving up. I have to explain why i'm doing it to the other person, which usually ends a power struggle that we've been going through for awhile, or else flairs it up anew...

I'm wondering, do you feel the need to explain things when you let a relationship slide? i think i want to explain so that we'll get everything out in the open and the relationship will be better for it. just sometimes it takes the form of a tirade or an attack. but usually i really truly believe that i'm making things better, even though i know that i'm also hurting my SO.

I wonder if my impulse to conceal / inability to express my feelings is more just a 4w5 thing? Do other 4w5s have that same problem?

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I can only really recall one phase of my life where I've actually pushed people away. I moved states to get away from the people I wanted to get away from... which was everyone. And then I never left my home to make new friends once I got there.

Other times when I experience my lows, I actually experience them as highs. I had wondered if I were bipolar because of this. Basically, I'll drown out the sound of my own voice with booze and late night partying. This is what often made me think I wasn't a four. I'm not sure if it's typical behavior of one.

When I was in a more serious relationship, however, I was prone to staying up very late at night to write out my thoughts in a journal. My boyfriend was always frustrated that I never went to bed at the same time as him. But I felt like it was the only time I could be alone with my thoughts. In a way, I suppose I did push him away. I didn't really self reveal the types of things I wrote about. We grew out of love with one another during that time, and eventually broke up after a year or so of this type of relationship.

 

[brainheart]

Yeah, Typh0n - that's exactly what i'm saying.
I try to manage relationships so that the other person won't feel upset with me or the relationship. i think that if i can do that, then he won't leave me. I have a huge abandonment complex (usually i try to leave before being left, which also plays into this. when things get bad, i just tear us both apart and run away). And then all the management gets to be too much in my head, and it gets stuck in my body too. I'm left feeling like I've tiptoed around the other person for so long that he doesn't know who i am and really, neither do i anymore.

So in order to assert myself, I have to assert all that pent up aggression that's weighing down on me. I have to get it all out so it stops smothering the relationship. And the aggression is directed at myself and at my SO - I'll be angry with myself for allowing my boundaries to be breached (and for not trusting the other person with my real emotions) and angry at my SO for being fragile enough that I had to lie the whole time we were in relationship. It ends up feeling like i just blow up the world...

Yeah, this sounds like sx/sp 4w5 to me.

 

[Asterism]

Yeah, Typh0n - that's exactly what i'm saying.
I try to manage relationships so that the other person won't feel upset with me or the relationship. i think that if i can do that, then he won't leave me. I have a huge abandonment complex (usually i try to leave before being left, which also plays into this. when things get bad, i just tear us both apart and run away). And then all the management gets to be too much in my head, and it gets stuck in my body too. I'm left feeling like I've tiptoed around the other person for so long that he doesn't know who i am and really, neither do i anymore.

So in order to assert myself, I have to assert all that pent up aggression that's weighing down on me. I have to get it all out so it stops smothering the relationship. And the aggression is directed at myself and at my SO - I'll be angry with myself for allowing my boundaries to be breached (and for not trusting the other person with my real emotions) and angry at my SO for being fragile enough that I had to lie the whole time we were in relationship. It ends up feeling like i just blow up the world...

This is how a lot of my relationships have ended, unfortunately. When I blow up, it comes off like I'm blaming the other person 100% for how things have turned out, but I'm mostly angry with myself for being so avoidant, and angry at them for not being able to see through it.

 

[Aurora James]

I think recklessness is more related to the sexual/intimate instinct than a Five wing.

 

[grey_beard]

Push people away with withdrawal and very bad moods and just not keeping in contact.
Recklessness/indulgence - nothing too extreme..
General irresponsible behavior - again not too extreme, but probably looks flaky or disrespectful.

I've never done anything like the OP. Instead I do a self-rejection. I don't feel like I've ever broken anyone else. I tend to feel like breaking myself more as a lesson to teach others, to make them regret destroying something "beautiful" by ignoring or not valuing it. The other behaviors tend to stem from that. It's kind of just "giving up" for me, but there is something impulsive about it because I can be chugging along & then just want to trash all the results, deeming them meaningless - nothing in relation to the effort put in.

You can say THAT again!

Push people away with withdrawal and very bad moods and just not keeping in contact.
Recklessness/indulgence - nothing too extreme..
General irresponsible behavior - again not too extreme, but probably looks flaky or disrespectful.

I've never done anything like the OP. Instead I do a self-rejection. I don't feel like I've ever broken anyone else. I tend to feel like breaking myself more as a lesson to teach others, to make them regret destroying something "beautiful" by ignoring or not valuing it. The other behaviors tend to stem from that. It's kind of just "giving up" for me, but there is something impulsive about it because I can be chugging along & then just want to trash all the results, deeming them meaningless - nothing in relation to the effort put in.

...oh, wait. You just *DID*.

 

[Chthonic]

I flip and switch between liking and despising others. I can't seem to feel the same way about a particular person for more than a few meetings. It drives me insane and I'm sure makes me a highly variable person to be around. I guess this is that dark impulse, to just never build anything. It's almost like flipping the bird at life.....I refuse to participate.

 

[Daydreaming Swan]

I think this is because of your instinctual subtype...the sexual instinct can be "dark"