[Type 4] Battle for Action

[small.wonder]

Apparently all 4's self sabotage-- I know I do. But how do we break that cycle of feeling helpless and actually succeed in our respective fields or areas of interest?

For me, it's specifically with my artwork: I work mostly with watercolor and leather (not together), and find myself stuck all the time procrastinating and becoming discouraged. I think part of this is that I work from home (no outside studio) and balance these interests with my vintage Etsy shop. For some reason working from home is hard for me-- you would think I'd love it as an introvert, but I wish I just had one or two other people around to talk with as I work. Sometimes I can't even get myself to start, like today: I checked email, ate breakfast, and have been doing otherwise stupid, unnecessary organizing of my shop photos, etc. Then at the end of this kind of day, I'm so mad at myself for not doing something. It's a feeling of not knowing where to start, or being lost.

I believe [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION] said this in another thread, that I can't find at the moment (I actually wrote this down):

"It's been my experience with myself and all the fours I know, that we are all healthier when we step away from self examination and act, especially in a creative capacity, instead."

Ugh, I know that to be true! I've experienced it, but it's like every day is an individual battle for action. Do any of you deal with this?

 

[Stansmith]

Do you get self-conscious about your work? Do you spend your time waiting for something to just "tick" so you can suddenly make something extraordinary? I can kind of relate.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Well yeah. It's so much easier to think than to actually DO something. I blame my 5-wing for that.

I do find, however, that I'm at my best when I am indeed out acting in the world. I feel good about myself, energetic, and focused. I get onto a roll and there's no stopping me. It's when I start getting lost in my fascinating inner-world that I start forgetting that.

What's been frustrating for me, though, is that a lot of life really ISN'T conducive to going out and doing stuff. It's easy to get into the go-out/come-home routine, then I wonder why my life is so boring, so I'll create alternate worlds without really bothering to even use that creative power IRL. Just easier not to. LOL.

I tend to operate on principles of inspiration, though, which means I'll do something when I get the idea to do it--but it's really hard for me to summon those at will. Something else I've found that's helpful is to do things for others. Use the 2-connection, I guess. I know that's easier said than done, but I guess you could look for an opportunity to have someone else motivate you. I'll let you know if I think of more ideas. It might need some time.

 

[Typh0n]

Yes. I struggle to act and to get the necessary courage to act in my daily life. Its not really that Im lazy, I just have alot of fears(5 wing?) and inhibitions and its pretty hard usually to get over them.

 

[Azure Flame]

I would imagine an E4 being able to take advice from an E8. I myself have to find what is most meaningful to me and actively work on bringing out my own emotions etc. E4's probably have to remind themselves to stop focussing so much on their emotions and be more active in accomplishing what they want to.

 

[brainheart]

it's like every day is an individual battle for action.

God, it sucks, doesn't it?

I always think of this Elliott Smith lyric when I think of how hard it is to stay on top of things: Took a long time to stand/ Took an hour to fall

(Well I think of this whole song actually)

 

[small.wonder]

Woah, people responded while I was ironically out being active in the world. Haha, wouldn't you know it. Thanks guys.

Do you get self-conscious about your work? Do you spend your time waiting for something to just "tick" so you can suddenly make something extraordinary? I can kind of relate.

Absolutely-- my work is an extension of myself and when I get in a rut, I start to doubt it's worth (as I've done with myself). At times I'm even ashamed of my artwork (usually because I compare it to the work of others, or to the vibrant idea in my brain). I don't wait for a creative rush really, it's either there or it's not. If it's there I go with it, but if it's not I start getting really frustrated (like I was when I wrote the O.P.) and kind of get cabin fever ----> "I need to get out of here!", then I take a drive, or a walk. I try to start my mornings now with some sort of physical activity, that's helped quite a bit but I don't totally understand why. Also a "routine" helps, as much as I hate it sometimes. Wake up, run around the block, calisthenics, breakfast, Jesus time, work...etc.

Well yeah. It's so much easier to think than to actually DO something. I blame my 5-wing for that.

YES to the 5-wing comment, darn that thing sometimes.

What's been frustrating for me, though, is that a lot of life really ISN'T conducive to going out and doing stuff. It's easy to get into the go-out/come-home routine, then I wonder why my life is so boring, so I'll create alternate worlds without really bothering to even use that creative power IRL. Just easier not to. LOL.

Being in touch with imagination and creativity, while also figuring out how to tangibly apply that in real life is such a struggle (yes, it would be easier to just allow them to remain separate). I get that "ugh, boring rat-race" feeling after doing real world action stuff too-- though I can do it well, I loathe it. Many creative people are able to bring their skill-set and ideas to the table in a applicable way these days though! Many craft industries (metal smithing, brewing, wood-working, leather craft, painting, sewing, etc.) and the handmade movement are proof of that. Take heart friend, there are tangible ways to use our creative skills in real life-- but it's not a cake walk, that's for sure.

I tend to operate on principles of inspiration, though, which means I'll do something when I get the idea to do it--but it's really hard for me to summon those at will. Something else I've found that's helpful is to do things for others. Use the 2-connection, I guess. I know that's easier said than done, but I guess you could look for an opportunity to have someone else motivate you. I'll let you know if I think of more ideas. It might need some time.

I can't summon that stuff either, if only! Eeep, feeling 2-ish always ends badly for me-- unless you mean doing artwork for others, like commissioned stuff or gifts? That actually does work well for me, because usually there's a prompt involved that I can run in any direction with. For some reason, completely open ended is overwhelming, rigid guidelines are stifling, but a general prompt is gold.

Yes. I struggle to act and to get the necessary courage to act in my daily life. Its not really that Im lazy, I just have alot of fears(5 wing?) and inhibitions and its pretty hard usually to get over them.

Interesting that it's more about fear and lack of courage for you, I experience it differently. As far as I can tell, I just over think everything and am hyper self-critical, which usually ends in anger/frustration (not fear). I do have fears, but they are more of a social, relational nature. When you say fear, what is it fear of? Success? Failing? Judgement?

I would imagine an E4 being able to take advice from an E8. I myself have to find what is most meaningful to me and actively work on bringing out my own emotions etc. E4's probably have to remind themselves to stop focussing so much on their emotions and be more active in accomplishing what they want to.

Agreed. Unfortunately the tough part is waking up every morning and making an active decision to do that. I can succeed thoroughly at putting my emotions aside one day, and fail miserably the next. I'm sure you know from the flipped perspective (the one you mentioned above about 8's needing to focus on emoting), that it's a "just get back on the horse" type of thing. Hopefully we get better at it over time. Maybe that's another reason 8 and 4 make sense: 8's encourage the action 4's need, 4's encourage the emotion 8's need. Too bad all that encouragement often erupts in WWIII.

God, it sucks, doesn't it?

I always think of this Elliott Smith lyric when I think of how hard it is to stay on top of things: Took a long time to stand/ Took an hour to fall

(Well I think of this whole song actually)

That phrase does ring true for sure-- it's a constant balance thing, not a conquer it once type of thing. At least we're pretty comfortable with failure already right? I may get upset for a moment when I fall, but I'm pretty resilient at the end of the day. The standing again becomes more instinctual and effortless the more times I have to do it. Haha, people who think 4's are weak are totally blind.

 

[Typh0n]

[MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION]

I think its fear of making a mistake, screwing up and embarassing myself.

What does that say to you?

 

[small.wonder]

[MENTION=17729]Typh0n[/MENTION] I can relate to that but again more in the relational/social sense. I'm not surprised that all 4w5's are not identical though, were all unique people with specific scars-- that produce specific fears. It's definitely still a form of self sabotage, believing the lies in your head. Mine are more like "you are such an amateur, no one is going to take you seriously", or "what good is this doing me, no one will see or appreciate my work anyway". Such lies, but with enough truth sprinkled in to stop me in my tracks and keep me from achieving what I want to! If I let it.

I think it's important to acknowledge the lies in your mind, so they can be exposed as what they are. Then I usually like to crush them with truth. So what are the lies that prevent you from action?

 

[Typh0n]

[MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION] I fear being unsafe when Im out in action in the physical world. Its like Im afraid of lacking physical boundries when Im out walking on the street. Its basically being physically in streets I feel unsafe, people scare me and since there are no physical boundries between myself and them except for space, I tend to keep my distance physically. Im just extremely uncomfortable on the street, as well as in public transportation. Its different when Im somewhere I like, such as a MTG tournament or at a friends house, because I know it isnt the same crowd that hang out there as I cross on the street for the most part. Streets just seem dirty and Im tired of the noisy, crowded, polluted city I live in. And since I dont have a car and have noone close to me who does, I have no way to escape taking public transportation, and I hate it. Of course this isnt something most or even anyone even understands, everyone just tells me I need to get used to it and if I dont like it, its because Im agoraphobic or something. They dont get it. Having to rely on public transportation sucks because, while its one thing to take the bus on occasion, it sucks to have to see an environment as ugly and unaesthetic as a bus, tram, or subway everyday. And fours are concerned with elegeance and beauty. Sounds like a bad combination to me. I cant wait till I get a car, but the process is so difficult out here in Europe.

Sorry to vent all this out of my system on you, lol, but you asked.

 

[Typh0n]

[MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION] I fear being unsafe when Im out in action in the physical world. Its like Im afraid of lacking physical boundries when Im out walking on the street. Its basically being physically in streets I feel unsafe, people scare me and since there are no physical boundries between myself and them except for space, I tend to keep my distance physically. Im just extremely uncomfortable on the street, as well as in public transportation. Its different when Im somewhere I like, such as a MTG tournament or at a friends house, because I know it isnt the same crowd that hang out there as I cross on the street for the most part. Streets just seem dirty and Im tired of the noisy, crowded, polluted city I live in. And since I dont have a car and have noone close to me who does, I have no way to escape taking public transportation, and I hate it. Of course this isnt something most or even anyone even understands, everyone just tells me I need to get used to it and if I dont like it, its because Im agoraphobic or something. They dont get it. Having to rely on public transportation sucks because, while its one thing to take the bus on occasion, it sucks to have to see an environment as ugly and unaesthetic as a bus, tram, or subway everyday. And fours are concerned with elegeance and beauty. Sounds like a bad combination to me. I cant wait till I get a car, but the process is so difficult out here in Europe.

Sorry to vent all this out of my system on you, lol, but you asked.

 

[small.wonder]

Yes, I did ask!

You sound kinda Sp-first-- Are you afraid of people assailing you physically?

I can relate about finding the city and public transit ugly and dissatisfying (as a 4), but I don't fear it really. If you lived in a town, or smaller city would you still be fearful of walking around in public?

And I guess, getting back to the point of this thread: How as a 4 can you combat that fear so you can do what you want to?

 

[Typh0n]

Yes, I did ask!

You sound kinda Sp-first-- Are you afraid of people assailing you physically?

I can relate about finding the city and public transit ugly and dissatisfying (as a 4), but I don't fear it really. If you lived in a town, or smaller city would you still be fearful of walking around in public?

And I guess, getting back to the point of this thread: How as a 4 can you combat that fear so you can do what you want to?

Interesting! Sp first? Ok noted haha. I am afraid of people assailing me physically.

If I lived in a small town, Id probably still have the fears, just less so.

Im not qiuet sure. I dont see it as something I can change except with a change of perpespective. But that doesnt interest me. I want a change of situation, and the only way I can do that is to have the money to buy a car. If I drove, my mobility problems would be reduced! I have several job oppurtunities which might work out in the near future, and if I get a job, Ill put money aside. I have a friend who drives(hes not a super close friend so I cant always ask him to drive me though, plus Id feel like Im profiting from him) and he says he can help me out when it comes to finding a good car at a good price. I guess, from a four's perpective, this is all about taking action to resolve whatever problems I have. Only I can save myself when it comes to material problems. There isnt anyone I can depend on for money, my parents have money problems and my friends are all still young. Everyone helps me out a little but only by taking action in my life can I solve the things that bug me. As a four, thats the lesson here.

 

[brainheart]

Apparently all 4's self sabotage-- I know I do. But how do we break that cycle of feeling helpless and actually succeed in our respective fields or areas of interest?

To go back to the original thread, I've begun engaging in mindfulness. In other words, I detach from my thoughts and feelings and observe with no judgment. It seems to help to write them down the second I experience them so I've been keeping a little notebook with me. I'm really starting to notice how much I judge everything I think/feel/do. Wow am I hard on myself. Not only that, I seem to do things which will trigger the self-flagellation response. It seems I am addicted to the feeling I get when I beat myself up.

Meditation- especially unfocused meditation- also seems to be helping. I feel more inspired and free afterwards.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

YES to the 5-wing comment, darn that thing sometimes.



Being in touch with imagination and creativity, while also figuring out how to tangibly apply that in real life is such a struggle (yes, it would be easier to just allow them to remain separate). I get that "ugh, boring rat-race" feeling after doing real world action stuff too-- though I can do it well, I loathe it. Many creative people are able to bring their skill-set and ideas to the table in a applicable way these days though! Many craft industries (metal smithing, brewing, wood-working, leather craft, painting, sewing, etc.) and the handmade movement are proof of that. Take heart friend, there are tangible ways to use our creative skills in real life-- but it's not a cake walk, that's for sure.



I can't summon that stuff either, if only! Eeep, feeling 2-ish always ends badly for me-- unless you mean doing artwork for others, like commissioned stuff or gifts? That actually does work well for me, because usually there's a prompt involved that I can run in any direction with. For some reason, completely open ended is overwhelming, rigid guidelines are stifling, but a general prompt is gold.

I've been out doing real world things too. No worries.

Yeah, I'm not the warm and bubbly sort myself. Part of it's just like what you say--having others depend on you to actually accomplish something is the surest way to do pick up the staff and plow and actually do the work.

But the other part is actually finding a way to put yourself into that position. No, I don't know precisely what that is, it's just my two cents.

That phrase does ring true for sure-- it's a constant balance thing, not a conquer it once type of thing. At least we're pretty comfortable with failure already right? I may get upset for a moment when I fall, but I'm pretty resilient at the end of the day. The standing again becomes more instinctual and effortless the more times I have to do it. Haha, people who think 4's are weak are totally blind.

...and that's actually the reason I mistyped for so long. 4s aren't the fragile little things some descriptions make them out to be. I'm actually the most resilient person I know. I have had "crumble" moments, but that's when I start to rebuild. Gotta tear down the old to start the new.