[Type 6] Enneagram 6: What are your variants and what scares you?

[mintleaf]

(Pretty sure I'm sx/so)

Anything that prevents my ability to experience joy, calm, or closeness with others. In other words,
1. becoming distracted or otherwise detached from what drives me: of not being able to love and properly respond
2. not being understood and loved

Fears that stem from the above: mental or emotional illness, dulled emotions, not being able to quiet my mind, isolation, losing my loved ones, certain social situations

Childhood fears: germs, every type of monster (esp. demons and ghosts; the idea of being possessed or haunted terrified me), parasites, toxic substances. all of these were extreme at one point, but I was able to rationalize my way out of them by the time I was 7 or 8

I know hardly anything about counterphobia, but I probably lean towards that. I'm pretty good about acknowledging, examining, and immersing myself in what scares me (internal or external), unless it's obviously counterproductive or not worth the risk. For example: I've also had bad social anxiety, and I tend to force myself into uncomfortable and/or terrifying situations.

I can’t imagine reacting to snapping turtles in the same way @Inari Love did haha. People tend to think I’m more phobic than I am because I might ask a question like “Can snapping turtles be deadly?” out of...I don’t know what. Even though it’s a natural response for me, it’s a dispassionate one. It’s natural for me to check and troubleshoot, even if I don’t viscerally sense a threat.

 

[Evo]

As an e6 sp/sx, I've always been anxious about my home being safe, and my loved ones within the home being safe.

When I was little I would lie awake at night playing out different scenarios, trying to mentally prepare myself for them (What if an armed person breaks into our home? How will I protect all my stuffed animals if there's a fire? Is the closet too obvious of a hiding place from an invasion of pirates?). I would often wake my mom up to run all these contingencies by her, and while I can remember her being clearly exasperated, she could usually talk me down to some extent.

I still do that lol. dammit

I remember when I lived in residence at University, I was viscerally afraid of the parties the students would have in the hallways. They would all be screaming, and grinding, and smashing things, while their electro-tribal music thudded ominously. I was sure that the music was inciting them to even greater heights of orgiastic destruction. And the only thing standing between me and those animals was my cheap old room door. The little lock on the doorknob never seemed sufficient.

The only way I would be comfortable in that situation is if I knew everyone that was partying. And wehn I say comfortable I mean - I know they're not going to try to kill me in my sleep. lol I wold have to learn I can trust everyone enough to that extent lol. So I would have probably partied with them to get that kind of trust, being the extravert that I am.

(Pretty sure I'm sx/so)

Anything that prevents my ability to experience joy, calm, or closeness with others. In other words,
1. becoming distracted or otherwise detached from what drives me: of not being able to love and properly respond
2. not being understood and loved

Fears that stem from the above: mental or emotional illness, dulled emotions, not being able to quiet my mind, isolation, losing my loved ones, certain social situations

Childhood fears: germs, every type of monster (esp. demons and ghosts; the idea of being possessed or haunted terrified me), parasites, toxic substances. all of these were extreme at one point, but I was able to rationalize my way out of them by the time I was 7 or 8

I know hardly anything about counterphobia, but I probably lean towards that. I'm pretty good about acknowledging, examining, and immersing myself in what scares me (internal or external), unless it's obviously counterproductive or not worth the risk. For example: I've also had bad social anxiety, and I tend to force myself into uncomfortable and/or terrifying situations.

I can’t imagine reacting to snapping turtles in the same way @Inari Love did haha. People tend to think I’m more phobic than I am because I might ask a question like “Can snapping turtles be deadly?” out of...I don’t know what. Even though it’s a natural response for me, it’s a dispassionate one. It’s natural for me to check and troubleshoot, even if I don’t viscerally sense a threat.

Ha ha yea I notice that with other instinctual types. That I'm more concerned for my well being and if they're even concerned (which nobody's ever concerned with what I'm concerned with lol) they only ask because they want more knowledge. Not to feel safer from the knowledge though lol.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION]

1. No the other fears are SX fears not SO fears because all of them revolve on losing my ability to attract potential mates. They do not however revolve around the negative impact of what my social peers think of me.

2. I also have a strong fear of fire and acid. In fact, I'm taking a chemistry class right now and we're constantly having to use 600 F Bunsen burners and work with hydrochloric acid and it's like the class from hell for me right now. I'm literally terrified to go to that class each week.

3. Yes I will compose some 6w5 examples as well. Sp/sx 6w5's look like Cersei Lanister from "Game of Thrones", Kristen Stuart, and Timothy McVeigh (the Unibomber). Sp/so 6w5's look like Dick Cheney and like George Bush Senior. Then So/sp 6w5's look like Malcom X and Spike Lee. The 6w5 so/sx look like Edward Norton and Julia Roberts. The sx/sp 6w5 look like Rod Serling from "The Twilight Zone" and Michelle Pfiffer. The sx/so 6w5 look like Adolf Hitler and like Ken Shamrock from UFC.

4. So you are confusing me now. Are you saying that you think I'm sp/so, sp/sx, or what? I'm confused.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]

I have the opposite problem - given, I'm terrified of fatally poisonous creatures - but I'm sort of oblivious to myself. I feel like I'm way better suited to a job advocating for someone else, because I just fail when it comes to self preservation. It's not that I can't, I just don't care enough to devote attention to it. Turtle nips me, oh well, injury. It'll heal, and at least it'll be fun to clean up and bandage. I'd worry more about looking uneducated or incompetent while getting bitten. A lot of times I do end up taking care of sp needs fairly well but for completely so or sx reasons, like looking successful or being more appealing to my significant other.

Well that's my problem, I don't just automatically assume that things will heal. I actually will fear that my current problem will turn into a problem that I have to live with for the rest of my life. For instance, I would fear the hell out of the snapping turtles because I would fear that the turtles would bite one of my fingers off and then I would have to live with only a partial finger for the rest of my life.

Here's another good example:

My penis is somewhat short and really thick and it's a decent size. However, earlier this year I decided to do these "jelqing" exercises to try to make my penis really big. They were working at first, and my penis was starting to look longer. However, after two weeks of these exercises, almost ALL of the sensitivity in penis went away and my penis was completely dead: I couldn't get it erect, I couldn't feel it, or anything! I went to the hospital and they told me that they have never heard of these exercises and told me that they had no clue if my penis would ever go back to normal or if I would ever be able to make love to a woman again! For days, I did nothing but research how to correct this problem. Finally, after hours of research I was able to put myself on a vitamin and herb regimen and it took 4 months to heal this problem! I have never been through anything more scary in my life! Still today I only have regained a lot of sensitivity in the head of the penis and still can't feel shit in the shaft. However, thank God I still get the full erections that I used to get and at least I can still feel the joy of sex. I still wonder if I'm ever gonna get the sensation back in my shaft.

The bottom line is this... I don't always assume that my medical problems can just "be corrected".

Also you said this...

Yeah, probably close. For me it'd be like trying to mediate between the group and the guy so that the decision is diplomatic but he still feels heard and valued. It'd be preferable for his decision to be chosen but only if it's really beneficial for everyone. I couldn't harm the group for the sake of the guy, regardless of how wonderful he may be. I did cave to that impulse with one very charismatic crush of mine and really regretted it afterwards - I felt like I'd betrayed the group.

Though important point, I don't really go along with group opinion as much as I try to figure out what is in the best interest of everyone in the group, if that makes sense. Sometimes group opinion is mislead by one or two overly-strong voices, or by power struggle and infighting, or by majority rule and marginalizing the minority. I want to figure out what the optimum solution is in terms of having everyone at least be neutrally affected by the choice and as many as possible benefitting from it, but no one being harmed by it if at all possible. Too often IMO group decisions are geared towards maximized benefit on the behalf of either the powerful or the majority, but the people who are benefitting could opt to receive slightly lesser benefit for the sake of not lessening quality of life for the others. (I think this sort of thinking is part of what made me believe I was sx/so - I tend to subvert the group, in a way, for the benefit of the group).

Personally, I wouldn't give a shit what was best for my lover or the group. I would do what was best for me, and fuck everyone else.

 

[skylights]

@skylights

Well that's my problem, I don't just automatically assume that things will heal. I actually will fear that my current problem will turn into a problem that I have to live with for the rest of my life. For instance, I would fear the hell out of the snapping turtles because I would fear that the turtles would bite one of my fingers off and then I would have to live with only a partial finger for the rest of my life.

That's funny. I can't even see that crossing my mind. Mostly I'm just afraid of death and total paralysis, and nothing else really frightens me enough to register.

Here's another good example:

My penis is somewhat short and really thick and it's a decent size. However, earlier this year I decided to do these "jelqing" exercises to try to make my penis really big. They were working at first, and my penis was starting to look longer. However, after two weeks of these exercises, almost ALL of the sensitivity in penis went away and my penis was completely dead: I couldn't get it erect, I couldn't feel it, or anything! I went to the hospital and they told me that they have never heard of these exercises and told me that they had no clue if my penis would ever go back to normal or if I would ever be able to make love to a woman again! For days, I did nothing but research how to correct this problem. Finally, after hours of research I was able to put myself on a vitamin and herb regimen and it took 4 months to heal this problem! I have never been through anything more scary in my life! Still today I only have regained a lot of sensitivity in the head of the penis and still can't feel shit in the shaft. However, thank God I still get the full erections that I used to get and at least I can still feel the joy of sex. I still wonder if I'm ever gonna get the sensation back in my shaft.

Oh, wow. That sucks. I'm glad you got some degree of feeling back.

The bottom line is this... I don't always assume that my medical problems can just "be corrected".

Yeah see... my thoughts reading that... were that I don't think I'd ever mess with something so important without getting a professional opinion first (assuming I had a penis and was dissatisfied with its size, I think I would very, very privately go see a doctor in another city to see what we could do).

Also you said this...

[...]

Personally, I wouldn't give a shit what was best for my lover or the group. I would do what was best for me, and fuck everyone else.

Really? I mean, I struggle to see how you could maintain position either with your lover or with your group if you acted like that. Certainly you might weigh your own opinion most heavily, but I assume you would have to do some amount of considering the opinions of others.

 

[RoadPaveMent]

-torture
-trauma
-lacking resources for basic survival needs
-moral incompetence

 

[Stansmith]

So/Sx

Being bored, not experiencing everything there is in the world, not reaching the maximum human potential, being trapped in stagnancy.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION]

1. No the other fears are SX fears not SO fears because all of them revolve on losing my ability to attract potential mates. They do not however revolve around the negative impact of what my social peers think of me.

2. I also have a strong fear of fire and acid. In fact, I'm taking a chemistry class right now and we're constantly having to use 600 F Bunsen burners and work with hydrochloric acid and it's like the class from hell for me right now. I'm literally terrified to go to that class each week.

3. Yes I will compose some 6w5 examples as well. Sp/sx 6w5's look like Cersei Lanister from "Game of Thrones", Kristen Stuart, and Timothy McVeigh (the Unibomber). Sp/so 6w5's look like Dick Cheney and like George Bush Senior. Then So/sp 6w5's look like Malcom X and Spike Lee. The 6w5 so/sx look like Edward Norton and Julia Roberts. The sx/sp 6w5 look like Rod Serling from "The Twilight Zone" and Michelle Pfiffer. The sx/so 6w5 look like Adolf Hitler and like Ken Shamrock from UFC.

4. So you are confusing me now. Are you saying that you think I'm sp/so, sp/sx, or what? I'm confused.

1. Ok, that changes things
2. I used to have others turn on/off the Bunsen burners and dissect things for me. I would thank them like every day. I would watch from an outdoor window if I was told I was doing a lab with hydrochloric acid. A lab is the worst place for a 6 sp... have to trust ppl to do things right...can't do that...have to trust the universe not to kill me...can't do that ( well I used to not be able to do those things, now I'm a lot better) I would not go in that class. no way. I used to think I was gonna die from the formaldehyde when we dissected pigs. I wore my shirt over my face and didn't care if it looked stupid. I really thought I was going to be poisoned.
3. That's awesome! I'm def. 6w5 lol
4.I'm sorry, I was just getting more details. I actually think you're sx/sp now that you told me why you had those fears from #1 ^

The question is are you more terrified of not having a mate/connection with someone you're close with....or are you more terrified of endangering you're life....like being around acid?

You're definitely an ENTP? and you don't know if you're 6w7 or 7w6? Is that right?


Try reading this it's from theenneagram.blogspot.com


6w7 - Seeking Security and Stimulation
•LifeExplore

Sixes with a 7 wing are generally outgoing and may appear more overtly nervous. More plainly want to be liked and will pursue others in contrast to 5 wing who pulls in. Can be charming, sociable, ingratiating. Have a faster tempo, stronger connection to 3. Often self-preservation subtypes, characterized by a personal warmth. Can have a cheerful, forward-looking drive and be disarmingly funny. Self-effacing, gracious and curious. When more entranced, may be self-contradicting and seem as if they want two things at once. Sometimes test others overtly, drive you crazy with mixed messages. It may be hard to follow what they're saying. When threatened, one defense is to become impossible to please. When counter phobic, they tend to be accusative. Some get caught up in big plans that they hope will result in material security. Also can be insecure, irritable, petty, irrational, chaotic. Subject to mood swings, inferiority complexes, runaway fears. May have hair-trigger flare-ups of paranoia. Falsely accuse others and then seem not to realize it. Other times they plead to be taken care of. Sometimes defensively conservative in their lifestyle. Some struggle with appetite.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]

That's funny. I can't even see that crossing my mind. Mostly I'm just afraid of death and total paralysis, and nothing else really frightens me enough to register.

My mind is like a "Final Destination" film when someone thinks they are about to die. I am constantly aware of the things/people in my environment that could hurt me.

Oh, wow. That sucks. I'm glad you got some degree of feeling back.

Well my situation is a lot better than it could have been. However, I talked to a doctor that is a nerve doctor and he believes through using electric shocks or something like that, he can get the sensitivity back in my penis. It probably won't be that hard to do, but it may be painful.

Really? I mean, I struggle to see how you could maintain position either with your lover or with your group if you acted like that. Certainly you might weigh your own opinion most heavily, but I assume you would have to do some amount of considering the opinions of others.

Ok I thought about this, and I often do go with the opinions of others. However, I do put me first before everyone else.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION]

First off, (in answer to your question) I would be more terrified of being disfigured because of sx reasons not self-pres reasons as much. The inability to be attractive because I was completely disfigured would bother me much more than the impacts that it could have on my potential health. Also, I've read probably 1000 different 6w7 and 7w6 descriptions and I can't really decide which one I am because I'm really pretty mentally unhealthy and I have PTSD, which could potentially make me look more 6 than I am.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION]

First off, (in answer to your question) I would be more terrified of being disfigured because of sx reasons not self-pres reasons as much. The inability to be attractive because I was completely disfigured would bother me much more than the impacts that it could have on my potential health. Also, I've read probably 1000 different 6w7 and 7w6 descriptions and I can't really decide which one I am because I'm really pretty mentally unhealthy and I have PTSD, which could potentially make me look more 6 than I am.

I don't know anything about ur particular case of PTSD....so i'm sorry if this comes off rude, that's not what I intend...but is there a time you can remember before you had it? How you were then? Or did you always have this since very little?

 

[Evo]

As not to derail the sx dom thread anymore...I don't know where to put this...but this seems good because it'll help me with instinctual variants...and therefore maybe help great one lol. [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] can you give me some examples of cp testing and phobic testing? And maybe you can give me a description of someone that's sx/sp in your opinion?

 

[The Great One]

I don't know anything about ur particular case of PTSD....so i'm sorry if this comes off rude, that's not what I intend...but is there a time you can remember before you had it? How you were then? Or did you always have this since very little?

No I wasn't this self pres my whole life. It seemed to come after I realized the tremendous cost of medical care.

 

[Starry]

As not to derail the sx dom thread anymore...I don't know where to put this...but this seems good because it'll help me with instinctual variants...and therefore maybe help great one lol. [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] can you give me some examples of cp testing and phobic testing? And maybe you can give me a description of someone that's sx/sp in your opinion?

I guess I was the one that was getting confused Inari...as I wasn't clear as to what information you were in search of. Anything having to do with phobic e6 probably doesn't belong in the sx-dom thread haha! Counterphobia, on the other hand, is an appropriate topic for that thread...but not necessarily in the way it was being discussed.

I completely missed, however, you mentioning anything about wanting a sx/sp description (?) Umm...I myself had mentioned earlier in the sx-thread that Amargith & chana had some fantastic insights into sx/sp and I would advise....ahhh...going back to the sx-thread haha...and reading those. Are you looking for sx/sp in general...or specifically as it pertains to e6? I'm sx/sp and may be able to help but...? What do you want to know?

I'll try to return here soon and address the other question.

Edit: briefly on counterphobic vs phobic relationship testing... whether it is a legitimate concern or something that was either semi-fabricated or completely-fabricated (haha) by *e6 paranoia*...a counterphobic most often comes right-out and blames the other directly...sometimes dramatically...and awfully loudly haha. What I primarily see with phobics is classic passive-aggressive behavior.

 

[Evo]

I guess I was the one that was getting confused Inari...as I wasn't clear as to what information you were in search of. Anything having to do with phobic e6 probably doesn't belong in the sx-dom thread haha! Counterphobia, on the other hand, is an appropriate topic for that thread...but not necessarily in the way it was being discussed.

I completely missed, however, you mentioning anything about wanting a sx/sp description (?) Umm...I myself had mentioned earlier in the sx-thread that Amargith & chana had some fantastic insights into sx/sp and I would advise....ahhh...going back to the sx-thread haha...and reading those. Are you looking for sx/sp in general...or specifically as it pertains to e6? I'm sx/sp and may be able to help but...? What do you want to know?

I'll try to return here soon and address the other question.

Edit: briefly on counterphobic vs phobic relationship testing... whether it is a legitimate concern or something that was either semi-fabricated or completely-fabricated (haha) by *e6 paranoia*...a counterphobic most often comes right-out and blames the other directly...sometimes dramatically...and awfully loudly haha. What I primarily see with phobics is classic passive-aggressive behavior.

Yea I realized I was derailing.

I read the whole thread on sx doms, and I've gotten the notion that sx/so are the crazier ones (to be brief), and I really can't get a feel on how to tell if you're sx dom vs sp dom, when you're looking at an sx/sp...where's the line? I am asking cause I read that thread and A LOT of the sx things that were said I relate to. So now I don't know if I'm sp/sx or sx/sp...or how to spot one.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]






"Actually, sp-sx just keeps you at arms length at all times, until they decide that you're for them, then they move pretty darn fast. Sx-sp comes close, realises its close, runs, comes close, etc. Their sp protectiveness kicks in as a last resort, or so it seems. They have that same aloofness as sp-sx, but they do not start off with it, meaning you trigger it later on, as they still have that urge to bond.
The people who repped me were a mix of extroverts and introverts, fwiw. And I know several others who have the same dynamic. I tend to be a fan of sx-sp and sp-sx, so I keep in mind that they'll buck and break free a couple of times before they decide on me, even when they look like they're good for the moment. "

This is a quote from [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION], is this one of the insights you are referring to?

 

[Amargith]

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

"Actually, sp-sx just keeps you at arms length at all times, until they decide that you're for them, then they move pretty darn fast. Sx-sp comes close, realises its close, runs, comes close, etc. Their sp protectiveness kicks in as a last resort, or so it seems. They have that same aloofness as sp-sx, but they do not start off with it, meaning you trigger it later on, as they still have that urge to bond.
The people who repped me were a mix of extroverts and introverts, fwiw. And I know several others who have the same dynamic. I tend to be a fan of sx-sp and sp-sx, so I keep in mind that they'll buck and break free a couple of times before they decide on me, even when they look like they're good for the moment. "

This is a quote from [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION], is this one of the insights you are referring to?

Yes exactly. It's too bad no one knows where Amargith is for her to comment on her own work...
But what I thought was so significant about the above passage is...how true it is...how it applies across all enneagram points (these behaviors would be recognizable to some extent in all sx/sp & sp/sx regardless of e-type)...And yet I have never read anything like this before. I now suspect all enneagram pros & authors to be sleeping on the job. The relationship behaviors as described seem defining to me...and a mindfulness of them seems highly important for these two stacks.

Inari, I can't seem to get a read on you. You identify or test as ENTJ? As well as e6? Which wing? From the very little I've read from you...you sure have higher levels of Feeling than I would expect out of an ENTJ. Do you identify as a counterphobic? Do you have any test results I could see?

 

[Avocado]

I've wondered…

What would a phobic So/Sp 6w7 be like?

 

[The Great One]

I've wondered…

What would a phobic So/Sp 6w7 be like?

John Stuart from "The Daily Show" and Ellen DeGeneres.