[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] 6/8 relationships

[Azure Flame]

anyone with experience of 6/8 relationships?

Preferably an 8 giving experience about dating a 6?

How'd it go, how did they view each other?

 

[violet_crown]

anyone with experience of 6/8 relationships?

Preferably an 8 giving experience about dating a 6?

How'd it go, how did they view each other?

6s are...complicated. There's a certain quality they have, like a gentleness or a sweetness in their energy, that you can sense even when they're in the midst of counterphobic conflagration. That quality brings out my protective side in a big way. Their mental energy is intense when they're comfortable enough to allow you to be party to their inner workings. It's overwhelming at first, and your instinct is just to hold them, to make them still, and bring peace to them.

We're honestly very simple in comparison to them. I rarely doubt much of anything really. If it feels right, then it is right. I'm neither dumb nor uneducated, but I feel like he's open up my world intellectually just by the way he seems to think about everything, in such depth, from such myriad perspectives, seemingly at all times. It's extraordinary and a bit daunting. I don't even try to keep up lol. But, assuming respect is in the mix, there's a lot to be mutually gained between the instinctual perspective we have and the cerebral one that they do.

The doubt can be hard on you. The constant back and forth and hot and cold. It takes a long time for them to trust, but they value us because we're solid, especially 8w9s. We know how to be someone's "rock", which is crucial as they feel you out. Tests within tests on top of uncertainties within doubts. There were instances where I would have walked if I'd loved him less. It gets to you after a while, feeling like you constantly have to prove yourself. Doing your level best, and still feeling you have nothing to show for it. It becomes corrosive. I started doubting myself, too, after a while, but eventually discovered resilience and patience I didn't knew I had. Ironically, my threshold for shenanigans in relationships outside of that one shrank down to nil.

That's the good and the bad. The chances that I'd wander down that path again if some other 6 came along is slim to none, frankly. As an 8, I need that safe space to be vulnerable enough to just love and be loved by someone. As an 8 who's also an sx-dom, I want that feeling of having found someone worthy of surrendering to, and "offering my sword" sorta speak. That vulnerable side is something I offer rarely, and it's a part of me that requires a certain regard and stability I sincerely doubt a 6 could provide. Unless incredibly integrated, they're too caught up in their own shit to do that for anyone, I think. So, no, I'll never emotionally invest in another 6. It's just not worth it. You're frankly better off with 4s, DJ.

 

[Azure Flame]

I suspect 6's don't have enough intensity for me, but then again I don't know if that would actually matter once I'm in love and deep in the relationship.

 

[skylights]

The doubt can be hard on you. The constant back and forth and hot and cold. It takes a long time for them to trust, but they value us because we're solid, especially 8w9s. We know how to be someone's "rock", which is crucial as they feel you out. Tests within tests on top of uncertainties within doubts. There were instances where I would have walked if I'd loved him less. It gets to you after a while, feeling like you constantly have to prove yourself. Doing your level best, and still feeling you have nothing to show for it. It becomes corrosive.

Painfully true.

I suspect 6's don't have enough intensity for me, but then again I don't know if that would actually matter once I'm in love and deep in the relationship.

Find a heavily-counterphobic sx 6 and confront them if you want chaotic intensity... I don't know that it would be healthy, but it certainly would be high-energy...

 

[violet_crown]

Painfully true.

It is what it is, I think. My parents were a 6/8 couple. My father is an 8w9 and my mother a 6w5, and so I grew up observing both the good and bad of the pairing. My mother, though exceptionally brilliant, was always fairly volatile. She was dependent on the stability my father provided in numerous senses, but constantly tested. Sometimes I don't even think she was entirely conscious of what she was doing or how painful it was to my father.

I think that there's something about us that just turns 6s, particularly the CPs into rebellious teenagers looking to see how far they can push until the other person breaks. God help us, 8s are kind of control freaks, and perhaps it's just the anti-authoritarian bent in you all that makes you want to overthrow that? But it's funny. It's like there's some instinct where the 6 will get close enough to the line to get chalk on their shoes before pulling back and finding some way to conciliate the 8. Over time the line just gets further and further down the field, and the behaviors more extreme. I think there's something of an arrogance in the defensive orientation of the 8w9 mentality that also plays a role in this. We take pride in the fact that we can take a knock on the chin and keep coming. And, frankly, even at full "chaotic intensity" I've never found any 6 threatening enough to justify the use of force. Doesn't mean the 6 can't hurt you. It just means that by the time that we're roused to action, the situation will just be so enmeshed and deeply rooted that we find we can't overcome it single-handedly. We become helpless when it comes to them. Eventually you just get crystalized into this oppressive thing they've envisioned you as. A dependable, consistent, and dull appendage that is unfortunately needful for all that you never match their ability to fly. Attempts to step outside that role are swiftly undermined, and eventually you sink deeply into it. Cause that brilliance you once loved now has you convinced that without it you'll never again see the stars.

I just think there are healthier pairings for both. My father eventually left my mother, and frankly it turned out to be the best thing for both of them. I think 8s trigger 6s in a bad way, and it causes them to subconsciously seek out to destroy them. I don't think they can help it. It's not like the dance between 8s and 4s which is somehow on more equal footing for all that it can be tempestuous. It's the emotional equivalent of fighting an asymmetrical war when you haven't exactly realized that the charming freedom fighter ain't exactly on your side.

 

[Elfboy]

I suspect 6's don't have enough intensity for me, but then again I don't know if that would actually matter once I'm in love and deep in the relationship.

you think a type that contains Lady Gaga, Amy Winehouse, Milla Jovavich, Angelina Jolie, Marilyn Monroe and Lindsay Lohan isn't intense enough for you?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I really think this could work only if the 6 had a foundation or pre-disposition of respect for the 8. This lessens the 6 and their "testing". With any relationship.

 

[Animal]

I suspect 6's don't have enough intensity for me, but then again I don't know if that would actually matter once I'm in love and deep in the relationship.

It's funny but I think the only ex I had who was "too intense for me" was a CP-6.

Then again, he was psycho, too, and not a good representation of what 6's are like when they're healthy. My other friend is a 6, but she's triple-superego. I knew she was intense right away, deep down; but she doesn't wear it on her sleeve. Still, I think in a relationship she'd be pretty intense, given how much passion she has buried in there and how she lets it out in that context. I also think the manner in which 6's and 8's both can tend to get controlling could be a potentially terrible match. I do better with 4's, 5's or 9's.

The *worst* match for me, though, is type 7. I know a 7 and he is my life-long nemesis to the point where he's the inspiration for the antagonist in my novel. I love 7s as friends but in a relationship it's like stuffing two male bulls in a tiny cage. What could possibly piss off an unhealthy sadist more than an unhealthy narcissist whose skin you can't get under, no matter what you do? Someone who thinks he's better than everyone and everything? I don't think I could deal with dating a 7 even if both of us were tremendously healthy. I just can't take the ego & arrogance. And I know exactly what all their "happy" little act is about and that it comes from just thinking they're above everything, and it just rubs me the wrong way in a relationship, probably because my father is a 7. Innocence, modesty and sweetness turn me on and melt my heart. That being said my best friend is a 7, and in my later years I get along with my father tremendously; and if I ever was inspired by anybody, it's him. 7s can be *great* and I can love them as people - I just can't date them.

Though the control issues turn me off to relationships with 6's, I'd take a 6 over a 7 in a relationship any day of the week!

 

[Animal]

6s are...complicated.

You could say that again.

We're honestly very simple in comparison to them. I rarely doubt much of anything really. If it feels right, then it is right. I'm neither dumb nor uneducated, but I feel like he's open up my world intellectually just by the way he seems to think about everything, in such depth, from such myriad perspectives, seemingly at all times. It's extraordinary and a bit daunting. I don't even try to keep up lol. But, assuming respect is in the mix, there's a lot to be mutually gained between the instinctual perspective we have and the cerebral one that they do.

Nicely put.

The doubt can be hard on you. The constant back and forth and hot and cold. It takes a long time for them to trust, but they value us because we're solid, especially 8w9s. We know how to be someone's "rock", which is crucial as they feel you out. Tests within tests on top of uncertainties within doubts. There were instances where I would have walked if I'd loved him less. It gets to you after a while, feeling like you constantly have to prove yourself. Doing your level best, and still feeling you have nothing to show for it. It becomes corrosive. I started doubting myself, too, after a while, but eventually discovered resilience and patience I didn't knew I had. Ironically, my threshold for shenanigans in relationships outside of that one shrank down to nil.

You sound very strong, emotionally. I would have been out the door pretty fast, I think. All that doubt and over-thinking can be interesting on an intellectual basis, and it makes for great conversation, and it's so inspiring. But once it's turned on me, I'm more like "Okay, now you're making this into *my* problem and that's not fair to me." I'm not saying I wouldn't put work in if I loved someone but I'd be pretty upset if I started to doubt myself. That actually happened with my ex who was a CP-6.... I started doubting myself.. briefly.. and then I dumped him. But, like I said in the previous post, he was psycho and he wasn't worth it. Your guy might have been much more worth it. =)

That's the good and the bad. The chances that I'd wander down that path again if some other 6 came along is slim to none, frankly. As an 8, I need that safe space to be vulnerable enough to just love and be loved by someone. As an 8 who's also an sx-dom, I want that feeling of having found someone worthy of surrendering to, and "offering my sword" sorta speak. That vulnerable side is something I offer rarely, and it's a part of me that requires a certain regard and stability I sincerely doubt a 6 could provide.

Exaccccctly.

You're frankly better off with 4s, DJ.

4s *le sigh*

Find a heavily-counterphobic sx 6 and confront them if you want chaotic intensity... I don't know that it would be healthy, but it certainly would be high-energy...

Yes. That is my experience too.

My mother, though exceptionally brilliant, was always fairly volatile. She was dependent on the stability my father provided in numerous senses, but constantly tested. Sometimes I don't even think she was entirely conscious of what she was doing or how painful it was to my father.

Ouch.

I just think there are healthier pairings for both. My father eventually left my mother, and frankly it turned out to be the best thing for both of them. I think 8s trigger 6s in a bad way, and it causes them to subconsciously seek out to destroy them.

Yeah, why is that? I suspect it could be because they can't relate to our inner "stability," like they doubt that it's real? I'm not claiming I've always been perfectly stable or healthy, but even when I'm unhealthy I don't have that doubt-faith cycle going on; I'm simple. I think 6's find that simplicity confusing? They don't trust it?

It's not like the dance between 8s and 4s which is somehow on more equal footing for all that it can be tempestuous. It's the emotional equivalent of fighting an asymmetrical war when you haven't exactly realized that the charming freedom fighter ain't exactly on your side.

I wrote a story about my ex who was a 4, and I called it "Stalemate."

you think a type that contains Lady Gaga, Amy Winehouse, Milla Jovavich, Angelina Jolie, Marilyn Monroe and Lindsay Lohan isn't intense enough for you?

Haha wow, Lady Gaga a 6?? Did you read this somewhere or it's your assessment? Tell me more!

 

[violet_crown]

I really think this could work only if the 6 had a foundation or pre-disposition of respect for the 8. This lessens the 6 and their "testing". With any relationship.

Respect is the foundation for love regardless of type. If the 6 feels they can't respect their partner, then they shouldn't be involved with them. Period. Or, better yet, all people should strive to avoid the behaviors they wouldn't want done to them. A 6 who personally craves certainty shouldn't go around inflicting uncertainty onto others for reasons that ought to transcend respect or the lack thereof.

It's funny but I think the only ex I had who was "too intense for me" was a CP-6.

For me, there’s no such thing as too much intensity. I think that 9 wing has something of a numbing effect on me in that I need something to be fairly over the top just to register, and my sx/sp instinctual stacking drives me to seek out the extremes that will test and expand my boundaries. A case in point is about a year ago, I made up my mind that I was going to have a ghost chili, which is among the hottest chilies on the planet. I spent an entire year training up to it, working my way up the Scoville scale, and somehow working spiciness into every meal that I had. By the time I was actually ready to take on a ghost chili, I pretty much had a capsaicin addiction, and needed that little bit of pain just to fully enjoy my meal. I was also essentially barred from using spice in meals that I cooked for others, because my thresholds were such that the level of heat required for it to register for me would ruin the dish for virtually anyone else.

I think that my relationships run along the same lines. I don’t intentionally seek out extreme personalities, per se, but my particular configuration lends me a certain predilection for their company. That kind of appreciation in turn makes intense people gravitate towards me.

My other friend is a 6, but she's triple-superego. I knew she was intense right away, deep down; but she doesn't wear it on her sleeve. Still, I think in a relationship she'd be pretty intense, given how much passion she has buried in there and how she lets it out in that context.

My sister and I are very close and she’s a 6w7. You’re absolutely correct about female 6s emotional depth, and the way they handle their intensity, even as phobics. Pound for pound, I’d say 6s are the most emotionally intense type for others. I think conventional wisdom points to 4s, but while 4s feel deeply, they’re more controlled in the expression of those emotions. There’s an element of performance in it. Not to imply inauthenticity, but I think 4s are as concerned with their sadness as they are concerned with the act of being sad. Or, in other words, ensuring that others experience of their sadness is as the 4 intends. You have to be pretty close to a 4 in order for them to really uncork and let loose on you in an unguarded way.

I also think the manner in which 6's and 8's both can tend to get controlling could be a potentially terrible match. I do better with 4's, 5's or 9's.
The *worst* match for me, though, is type 7. I know a 7 and he is my life-long nemesis to the point where he's the inspiration for the antagonist in my novel. I love 7s as friends but in a relationship it's like stuffing two male bulls in a tiny cage. What could possibly piss off an unhealthy sadist more than an unhealthy narcissist whose skin you can't get under, no matter what you do? Someone who thinks he's better than everyone and everything? I don't think I could deal with dating a 7 even if both of us were tremendously healthy. I just can't take the ego & arrogance. And I know exactly what all their "happy" little act is about and that it comes from just thinking they're above everything, and it just rubs me the wrong way in a relationship, probably because my father is a 7. Innocence, modesty and sweetness turn me on and melt my heart. That being said my best friend is a 7, and in my later years I get along with my father tremendously; and if I ever was inspired by anybody, it's him. 7s can be *great* and I can love them as people - I just can't date them.

Though the control issues turn me off to relationships with 6's, I'd take a 6 over a 7 in a relationship any day of the week!

Dude, I’m right there with you on 7s. They do absolutely nothing for me. I don’t really get 5s either. I’ve tended to be attracted to men along the 3-6-9 triangle, plus 4s. I think I respond to the qualities that I’ve bolded, but I need a little bit of an edge in a mate. I think in the past I was very keen on being able to play the role of Protector, but now I just want a partnership between equals. It’s why I can’t really do INFPs anymore, despite the very natural connection I tend to have with them. I want someone who’s solid in himself: confident, together, and quietly charismatic. I prefer a man who’s smarter than I am (or at least intelligent in a complementary sort of way), because I like someone who can point out my blind spots. A driven sort of man who’s always ten steps ahead of everyone around him, who always sees all the angles, but still manages to come off completely unassuming. A good, thoroughly decent, pillar of the community sorta man that you can’t help but respect. A gentleman, in other words.

This ideal has only crystalized in my head very recently. Enneagram-wise, again, he’ll probably be a fairly balanced member of that 3-6-9 trifecta. MBTI I’m guessing IXXJ with no real preference for which. INP is possible, but they’d seriously have to have their shit together to fit the bill. One thing I do know is that this guy is out there for me. Once something is in my heart like that, I’ve always been blessed in that the universe tends to conspire in my favor. I want a guy who’s a douchebag; damned if I don’t get exactly the douchebag I had in mind. I’m hoping that a healthier realignment of my intention will produce something just as loving and positive.

 

[Animal]

For me, there’s no such thing as too much intensity. I think that 9 wing has something of a numbing effect on me in that I need something to be fairly over the top just to register, and my sx/sp instinctual stacking drives me to seek out the extremes that will test and expand my boundaries.

I have so much more to say to this post, but I have to sign off for now. However, I needed to respond to this portion. I am exactly the same way. My friends & parents have commented that the one thing all my exes/lovers/interests have in common is that they're extremely intense. I never thought that "too intense for me" was possible until I met this guy.

To give you an idea of how this guy was... oh god, where do I begin?! .... his intensity turned me on, but he wanted to control everything I did. That wasn't gonna fly. He punched my windshield and broke it, all of a sudden after a good night, because he was suddenly upset that years ago I'd written a song about some guy I liked who I never even dated. (I write A LOT of songs... so um??) .... after we broke up he threatened suicide. I've had three other guys threaten suicide on me - two of which are generally very stable guys, but I used to have a kind of "conquerer" affect when I was less healthy. I have no patience for that stuff. When he threatened suicide I asked, "DO you want me to call your mother or the cops? I'll go with your mother for now, but don't push your luck and do this again because next time it'll be the cops." Then I called his mother. (He was 27)

Six months after we broke up he saw my car parked outside his friend's house at 3am; a 4 that I'd known long before we met and who I had a history with. He then stole the 4's guitar from his bedroom (his guitar was the love of his life) and stole his phone and texted girls the 4 had been involved with in the past, texting them gross things so they would get mad at this 4. We were walking down the street together and girls were coming up to him and yelling at him, and I had to set them straight. I knew exactly what was going on and that the CP-6 stole his phone and his guitar, but the 4 refused to believe it because they used to be friends. When I finally put the pieces together in a way that was undeniable, the 4 cried and cried and cried. I was so angry at this CP-6. I finally convinced the 4 to go to the cops, and a whole group of us went to support him; but he refused to press charges as long as his guitar was returned in one piece. The guitar magically "appeared" in his bedroom soon after.

Anyway, then the 6 proceeded to leave me long texts and messages telling me that he'd started a bank account for me, in my name, so that when I forgive him and we get married, I'd know how much he loves me. I had to tell him once again that he's one step away from a restraining order and if he steps over the line I have photos of my car that he punched and I can get him in serious trouble. He laid off after that. I mean, he was PSYCHO. Too intense isn't even the right way to describe it. He was beyond absorptive and controlling and dominating and psycho. I liked him at first for the excitement and intensity, so it might not be fair to say he was "too intense for me" but rather, his intensity came out in ways that were really unhealthy and destructive.

After dating someone like him, I was thinking "Gosh, all I want is a cute little sweet withdrawn nerdy adorable thing to cuddle up with.. I need to find me a male kitten.."

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=17911]Maybe[/MENTION]. There is a difference between abusive and intense. Your story is one of control, manipulation and abuse by that CP6.

Glad you got away from that.

 

[Azure Flame]

I need a LOT of intensity. Be it sensual or emotional. I prefer emotional. I've met other STP 8's who give me the "Icon of sin" eyes, and that usually is pretty exciting. But I prefer an intensity that I can't find within myself, something more emotional. That's why I like ISFP 4's and INFJ 4's.

Even 5w4's are really intense, they're responsible for artwork like this:

 

[Azure Flame]

[MENTION=17911]Maybe[/MENTION]. There is a difference between abusive and intense. Your story is one of control, manipulation and abuse by that CP6.

Glad you got away from that.

Yes, aggressive belligerent intensity isn't what I'm looking for. I find that just obnoxious.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Respect is the foundation for love regardless of type. If the 6 feels they can't respect their partner, then they shouldn't be involved with them. Period. Or, better yet, all people should strive to avoid the behaviors they wouldn't want done to them. A 6 who personally craves certainty shouldn't go around inflicting uncertainty onto others for reasons that ought to transcend respect or the lack thereof.

You are right.

As a CP6, I think it is more than mutual respect that I spoke about earlier. It's almost as if our best option is to be friends first or know *something* about their SO before dating (their reputation, etc). This lessens that whole testing thing we do. I don't know how to explain it properly but it goes past normal mutual respect. I've respected most everyone I've dated but if that respect doesn't have the ability to build trust attatched the 6 will keep testing to look for it and always seem to come up short if that foundation isn't there to begin with.

I hope that makes sense. Like I said, it's hard for me to explain it.

 

[Azure Flame]

You are right.

As a CP6, I think it is more than mutual respect that I spoke about earlier. It's almost as if our best option is to be friends first or know *something* about their SO before dating (their reputation, etc). This lessens that whole testing thing we do. I don't know how to explain it properly but it goes past normal mutual respect. I've respected most everyone I've dated but if that respect doesn't have the ability to build trust attatched the 6 will keep testing to look for it and always seem to come up short if that foundation isn't there to begin with.

I hope that makes sense. Like I said, it's hard for me to explain it.

Perhaps it has to do with your own self esteem? When I say self esteem, I suppose I could refer to the levels of health in the enneagram. So in my case, I often feel like I'm not ready to enter a relationship until I have a job and sustainable income, and I'm out and about being extroverted. I tend to feel down on myself in this respect. Likewise, perhaps a 6 would have to develope their level of health and the testing would stop?

 

[violet_crown]

You are right.

As a CP6, I think it is more than mutual respect that I spoke about earlier. It's almost as if our best option is to be friends first or know *something* about their SO before dating (their reputation, etc). This lessens that whole testing thing we do. I don't know how to explain it properly but it goes past normal mutual respect. I've respected most everyone I've dated but if that respect doesn't have the ability to build trust attatched the 6 will keep testing to look for it and always seem to come up short if that foundation isn't there to begin with.

I hope that makes sense. Like I said, it's hard for me to explain it.

I don't know if I understand you completely. I think that if someone behaved towards me in a consistent and dependable fashion, then I'd assume them to be trustworthy. I can see how reputation plays a role in that because if that person then has a lapse, the knowledge that generally speaking they are in fact trusted by others would lead me to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think this breaks down for me when I consider that behaving in a way I believed would inspire trust only seemed to intensify the testing behavior on the 6s part. It's like he couldn't place faith in it until he'd broken it, and then could point at things after they'd fallen apart and say, "I'd told you so."

I guess I'm curious where respect or lack of respect could play a role in a dynamic that's fueled primarily by one party's reaction to their own fears and insecurities. What was I supposed to have done differently? Perhaps that's where the 8 fails in the 6/8 pairing: we give what we feel is necessary as opposed to what is desired, but I'll be damned if I apologize for that. It could just be that you're too polite to say directly that the behavior I tolerated was disrespectful not because 6s don't understand limits, but because the one I was involved with didn't respect me enough to observe mine. If that was your point was then you're probably right.

 

[Animal]

[MENTION=17911]Maybe[/MENTION]. There is a difference between abusive and intense. Your story is one of control, manipulation and abuse by that CP6.

Glad you got away from that.

Yeah you're absolutely right. I think 'intense' was the wrong word. I met him and we started dating immediately - I seriously thought, "This will be my first one-night stand; this guy is GORGEOUS".. and then he kept calling me, and I kind of "fell into it." Within a couple months I gave him the boot. I really have zero tolerance for abuse. That's why most of the serious abuse occurred after the relationship. I ended it when he broke my windshield, but he paid to repair it and cried and begged so much, I kind of waffled for another week, and then he said something controlling, like "I don't want you going to town, you might run into [fill in name of guy I had a history with]" and I put my clothes on, said "Don't call me ever again" and walked out the door. This was followed by suicide threats & the phone call I made. It's the most abuse I've ever endured, really, because I am very alert to "abuser" signals and tend to stay away from them. I usually date people I've known for a while, and he was an exception because I had no intention of dating him and really wanted to see what it's like to have a one-night stand. I guess I'm just not one-night stand material, probably because I, myself, am too intense.....

 

[Animal]

A case in point is about a year ago, I made up my mind that I was going to have a ghost chili, which is among the hottest chilies on the planet. I spent an entire year training up to it, working my way up the Scoville scale, and somehow working spiciness into every meal that I had. By the time I was actually ready to take on a ghost chili, I pretty much had a capsaicin addiction, and needed that little bit of pain just to fully enjoy my meal. I was also essentially barred from using spice in meals that I cooked for others, because my thresholds were such that the level of heat required for it to register for me would ruin the dish for virtually anyone else.

Haha, that is INTENSE! =)

I think that my relationships run along the same lines. I don’t intentionally seek out extreme personalities, per se, but my particular configuration lends me a certain predilection for their company. That kind of appreciation in turn makes intense people gravitate towards me.

Same here. I think I've corrected myself in previous posts about the 6 - intensity is not really what the problem was; it was complete psychotic behavior in the form of intense ... smothering? Hyper-controlling? Over the top declarations of love, crying, punching windshields.. that kind of b.s. Intense minus major psychosis is super hot.

My sister and I are very close and she’s a 6w7. You’re absolutely correct about female 6s emotional depth, and the way they handle their intensity, even as phobics. Pound for pound, I’d say 6s are the most emotionally intense type for others. I think conventional wisdom points to 4s, but while 4s feel deeply, they’re more controlled in the expression of those emotions. There’s an element of performance in it. Not to imply inauthenticity, but I think 4s are as concerned with their sadness as they are concerned with the act of being sad. Or, in other words, ensuring that others experience of their sadness is as the 4 intends. You have to be pretty close to a 4 in order for them to really uncork and let loose on you in an unguarded way.

I really like the way you phrased this - especially the bolded. I wrote about an ex who was a musician in another post that I think you read..... he was a 4, and that is a perfect description of him. I love that word, "Uncork" .. haha. His heart shone through his music.. every note on guitar sang. If you've ever heard Jeff Beck, he could cover Jeff Beck and do it just as beautifully. He could cover anyone! Improvising with him.. we would just hold out a couple of long notes.. I'd use the mod wheel on the keyboard and he'd get into this intense sliding vibrato and we would synch up.... What...A...Heart. =,) He used to say "I try to make the guitar sing" and oh boy, he did. Most singers don't sing the way his guitar could sing. But in the name of authenticity, he turned down huge offers to make big money or get famous playing. He wanted to do it with his (imaginary) authentic original band..... etc.

Anyway point being, he was so intense musically, but very hard to "uncork" outside that context =p

Dude, I’m right there with you on 7s. They do absolutely nothing for me. I don’t really get 5s either. I’ve tended to be attracted to men along the 3-6-9 triangle, plus 4s. I think I respond to the qualities that I’ve bolded, but I need a little bit of an edge in a mate.

I need edge as well.

Hmm that's interesting that we share the experience with 7s, but not surprising. =) What don't you get about 5s?

There's a theory going around that you can sort of "react against" the wings surrounding your type, as in, we would react against 7 and 9 in a way. I think people react against the wing that opposes theirs, usually. So if we're both 8w9s it could also be that we don't want to see 7 in ourselves? I don't think my 9 wing is THAT overpowering - I see 7 in myself too, and times in my life where the 7 looks stronger, but overall it's 9. What about you?

I want someone who’s solid in himself: confident, together, and quietly charismatic. I prefer a man who’s smarter than I am (or at least intelligent in a complementary sort of way), because I like someone who can point out my blind spots. A driven sort of man who’s always ten steps ahead of everyone around him, who always sees all the angles, but still manages to come off completely unassuming. A good, thoroughly decent, pillar of the community sorta man that you can’t help but respect. A gentleman, in other words.

You just described someone I know..... and he's a 5. =,)
5s can have razor-sharp minds, but they can also be cuddly and adorable, and wild animals in bed, because they've got all this underlying lust (soul child 8), and when I bring it out.. it's so hot. =p

This may also be a product of my 5 & 4 fix though. I do really well with withdrawn types. I love drawing them out. And they're less threatening to my SP than other types. I'm a writer and I write music, too, so I need a lot of "alone time" when I'm not in an office. I need someone who "gets" that rather than me needing to boss them around about it. I like having someone I can be wild and intense with in bed, and have intense, probing conversations with, but also, can sit in a room with me on our separate laptops and ignore each other, or read books side by side.

I fear a 3/6/9 triader would be too "attached" and not "independent" enough for my taste, but I don't know. I mean, I want intensity, but not co-dependence? I am pretty sure I've never dated a 3, and only the one 6 who I had a bad experience with. The only LONG relationship I've had yet was with a 9w8, and we got along very well, but there just wasn't enough fire long-term, and also, his passive aggressiveness and failure to be straight forward was annoying to me.

I want a guy who’s a douchebag; damned if I don’t get exactly the douchebag I had in mind. I’m hoping that a healthier realignment of my intention will produce something just as loving and positive.

Haha, it's funny, I used to be like this. I guess I still want SOME douchebaggery. I need him to be innocent but my definition of innocent leans towards "honest" rather than "caring." I love a man who is selfish and goes after what he wants, pursues his dreams, lets nobody get in his way, stands up for himself, etc. Someone who would say "I'm selfish" but then melts in my arms. It's a strange dichotomy but I want someone who is soft and vulnerable underneath, but hard to reach on the outside - at least to anyone but me. That feeds my SX possessiveness; plus it's adversity over which I can triumph.. plus it's just... hot, peeling away all those layers. =p yummm. Also, I love a man who is tough and independent and has a razor-sharp mind and cuts right through my crap (and everyone else's), but who can break down and cry in my arms. If he can, then so can I.. and I can feel safe being vulnerable with him... which is what I really want more than anything.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I don't know if I understand you completely. I think that if someone behaved towards me in a consistent and dependable fashion, then I'd assume them to be trustworthy. I can see how reputation plays a role in that because if that person then has a lapse, the knowledge that generally speaking they are in fact trusted by others would lead me to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think this breaks down for me when I consider that behaving in a way I believed would inspire trust only seemed to intensify the testing behavior on the 6s part. It's like he couldn't place faith in it until he'd broken it, and then could point at things after they'd fallen apart and say, "I'd told you so."

I guess I'm curious where respect or lack of respect could play a role in a dynamic that's fueled primarily by one party's reaction to their own fears and insecurities. What was I supposed to have done differently? Perhaps that's where the 8 fails in the 6/8 pairing: we give what we feel is necessary as opposed to what is desired, but I'll be damned if I apologize for that. It could just be that you're too polite to say directly that the behavior I tolerated was disrespectful not because 6s don't understand limits, but because the one I was involved with didn't respect me enough to observe mine. If that was your point was then you're probably right.

It's not about self esteem @djareendee. It's about vulnerability. Something 8 and 6 struggle with, IMO. 6's test to see if the other person is trustworthy. Looking back on my past relationships, I never really "gave in" and tested my SO's when I felt I needed to gain more information on their motives. 6's are excellent troubleshooters and focus very quickly on problems before they surface. So if a 6 is testing it usually means they see an issue. Usually this dissipates the more time I was with that person or it ended because no matter what- I didn't see them as safe places to put my trust. Usually I was correct. They weren't necessarily good people for me but I recognized that that testing behavior doesn't really make for a good foundation. So if a 6 is doing this - they aren't with the right person (in my experience).

I've been with an 8 and we stalemated. Just seemed to reinforce each others defenses rather than break them down. Still, I get along with 8's very well in non intimate settings.

I'm with a INFP 4w5 and I never tested him. There was nothing to test as his actions and words were very in sync. Our vulnerabilities are each others strengths so we help each other out where the other lacks.



I suppose I used the wrong word earlier. It's not about respect it's about trust.