# Thread: Fives and Nines

1. ## Fives and Nines

What are some differences?

What are some similarities?

Are the two even comparable?

More thoughts later.

2. Originally Posted by jontherobot
What are some differences?

What are some similarities?

Are the two even comparable?

More thoughts later.
I shall help you.

9 is a greater number than 5. Their difference is 4. 4 is better than both of these other numbers.

Their similarities lay in the fact that they are both numbers.

They are comparable in that they are both quiet, reclusive, withdrawn numbers.

3. Originally Posted by Saturned
I shall help you.

9 is a greater number than 5. Their difference is 4. 4 is better than both of these other numbers.

Their similarities lay in the fact that they are both numbers.

They are comparable in that they are both quiet, reclusive, withdrawn numbers.

Oh Saturned, always the insightful one =D

4. Originally Posted by Saturned
I shall help you.

9 is a greater number than 5. Their difference is 4. 4 is better than both of these other numbers.

Their similarities lay in the fact that they are both numbers.

They are comparable in that they are both quiet, reclusive, withdrawn numbers.

but then when you double 4 and add 1, you get a greater number, 9.

Fives are normally occupied in their minds and nines are occupied by the world, without really having their own occupation. 5s are almost always introverted from what I've seen, though there's one ENFP guy that's been said to be a 5 but I doubt it...can't remember his name.

5. I'm just quoting stuff I've collected on the Internet. And by the way, I'm a Type 5 with Type 9 in my tritype... which can explain why I tend to relate to both descriptions to a great degree. I'm pretty sure my primary enneatype is 5 though.

5 and 9

Mistyping frequency: very often (many 9s mistype as 5s)

Five........................................Nine
Intense...................................Soft
Strong-minded...........................Easy-going
Argumentative..........................Comforting
Resistant.................................Receptiv e
Suspicious................................Trusting
Focused..................................Diffuse
Penetrating..............................Unfocused
Theory....................................Fantasy
Particularities............................General ities
Pessimistic...............................Optimist ic
High-strung..............................Peaceful
Disconnect from others..............Merge with others
Defensive................................Accomodat ing
Complexify things.......................Simplify things
Discriminating...........................Accepting
Detach...................................Space-out
A detailed comparison and contrast between Fives and Nines is warranted because so many Nines mistakenly think that they are Fives; typically, the misidentification almost never happens the other way around. Particularly if they are well educated and intelligent, average male Nines tend to think that they are Fives. (As noted in the discussion of Twos, average female Nines tend to think that they are Twos.)

Of all the personality types, Nines have the most difficulty identifying which type they are because their sense of self is undefined. Average Nines have little sense of who they are apart from those they have identified with; hence, they are usually at a loss to know where to begin to find their type. (As we have seen, either they think they are Fives or Twos or they see a little of themselves in all the types and make no further effort at identifying themselves. If they have no guidance, Nines in this predicament usually shrug their shoulders and give up on the Enneagram and more important, on acquiring self-knowledge.)

Even relatively healthy Nines still have a somewhat diffused sense of self because it is based on their capacity to be receptive to others—and to be unself-conscious. Moreover, average Nines have problems identifying their type because doing so arouses anxiety, something completely anathema to them. Whatever disturbs their peace of mind is ignored or met with a blind eye. They avoid introspection in favor of entertaining comforting notions about themselves, whatever they may be. Maintaining an undefined understanding of themselves, and thus, maintaining their emotional comfort, is more important to average Nines than acquiring deeper insights.

None of this is true of Fives, and the two types are opposites in many ways. Nines are gentle, easygoing, patient, receptive, and accommodating, whereas Fives are intense, strong-minded, argumentative, contentious, and highly resistant to the influence of others. Nines like people and trust them; perhaps at times they are too trusting. By contrast, average Fives are suspicious of people and are anything but trusting, perhaps at times too cynical and resistant. Both types are among the three withdrawn types of the Enneagram, and (as we have seen with Fours and Nines), there are genuine similarities between them, although only superficial ones (PT, 433-36).

Despite their similarities, the main point of confusion for Nines arises around the notion of "thinking." Nines think they are Fives because they think they have profound ideas: therefore, they must be Fives.

Part of the problem stems from the fact that individuals of both types can be highly intelligent, although as a group Fives are probably the most intelligent of the nine personality types. (When Nines are highly intelligent, they can be as brilliant as Fives, although their intellectual prowess is compartmentalized. They are brilliant at work but unfocused and inattentive everywhere else, whereas Fives are focused and attentive everywhere all the time.) Although intelligence can be manifested in different ways, being intelligent does not make Nines intellectuals, just as thinking does not make them thinkers. As we have seen, the pattern as a whole (and the motivations) must be taken into consideration, not one or two traits in isolation. Since all the types think in one way or another, thinking alone, with no further distinction, is not a sufficient basis for a personality diagnosis.

The fundamental difference between the thinking of Nines and that of Fives is that Nines are impressionistic, involved with generalities, imaginative ruminations, and fanciful situations. Nines typically do not concern themselves with details, nor are they usually good at following up once they have acted. By contrast, the thinking of Fives is highly focused, penetrating, and almost microscopic in the narrowness of its frame of reference. Fives love details, losing themselves in research, scholarship, and complex intellectual pursuits. They think in depth, concentrating so much that they block out other perceptions (eventually to their detriment). By contrast, even brilliant Nines tend to have problems concentrating; they also tend to lose interest quickly and to allow their attention to drift off when they become bored or anxious.

Nines tend to spin grand, sweeping, idealistic solutions to problems, while Fives tend to speculate on problems, then on the problems that their problems have raised, then on those problems, ad infinitum. Nines may be gifted storytellers, able to communicate simply and effectively to others, even to children. Fives usually communicate to only a few or keep their ideas entirely to themselves. (Moreover, their ideas may be so complicated that they are difficult to communicate to all but other specialists.) Nines usually do not consider the consequences of their actions; Fives are extremely interested in predicting the consequences of every action. Nines idealize the world and create imaginary worlds in which good always triumphs over evil;

Fives analyze the real world and create horrifying scenarios in which evil usually triumphs over good or exists in tension with it. Nines simplify; Fives complexify. Nines look to the past; Fives to the future. Nines are fantasists; Fives are theorists. Nines are disengaged; Fives are detached. Nines are utopians; Fives are nihilists. Nines are optimists; Fives are pessimists. Nines are open; Fives are resistant. Nines are non-threatening and nonjudgmental; Fives are defensive and contentious. Nines are at peace; Fives are in tension. Nines end in dissociation; Fives in paranoia.

Comparisons and contrasts such as these could be multiplied almost indefinitely because, while these two types are such opposites, they are also paradoxically similar. What they have in common is the tendency to ask "What if?" questions. The difference is in their response: Nines tend to ruminate on their fantasies, while Fives attempt to see if their ideas could come true. The Nine's ideas usually involve a single insight that, while true enough, is often impractical and goes nowhere. For instance, a Nine may think that the way to world peace is "for everyone to love one another."

While this is doubtlessly true, the problem not addressed is how to get everyone to love one another. A Five wondering about the same problem would write a treatise on world peace after doing exhaustive historical research, eventually erecting a grand theory of peace. (The Five's ideas may also come to nothing, but at least they are pursued, and practical results may eventually come of them.) To give another example, a Nine might wonder what it is like to fly and make up a story about it. A Five might wonder how to fly and invent an airplane or do research on birds or design a rocket.

In short, Nines have an active fantasy life and think that they have deep thoughts. Sometimes they do, of course, although the thinking of intelligent, well-educated Nines tends to be in the direction of simplifying reality and cutting through abstruse thickets to get at the kernel of truth beneath. Nines tend to see things the way they want them to be; they reinterpret reality to make it more comforting and less threatening, simpler and less daunting. By contrast, the thinking of Fives is complex. By attempting to arrive at a grand unifying theory that encompasses and explains everything, average Fives end up involved in increasing complications and abstractions. Their thought is focused on specifics, often highly technical and concerned with foresight and the consequences of acting one way rather than another. But at an extreme, Fives risk seeing reality not as it is but as a projection of their preoccupations and fears. They distort their perceptions of reality so that reality seems more negative and threatening than it actually is.

Nines feel at ease in the world, and their style of thinking reflects their unconscious desire to merge with the world. Fives are afraid of being overwhelmed by the world, and their intellectual efforts are an unconscious defense against the world, an attempt to master it intellectually. There is a world of difference between these two types since they see the world so differently.

6. @copperfish17

Although I must unfortunately admit I don't much care for the overall theme of the article, it is enlightening in many aspects.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has thought about similarities and differences between the two =P

7. Originally Posted by jontherobot
@copperfish17

Although I must unfortunately admit I don't much care for the overall theme of the article, it is enlightening in many aspects.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has thought about similarities and differences between the two =P
Why not?

8. I typed as a 9 in college when the professor had us take an online enneagram test. Years later and finally reading more about it, I'm definitely a 5. I think the reclusive nature of the 5 can be mistaken for the 9's peace-loving demeanor.

9. Originally Posted by gromit
Why not?

Why do I not care for the overall theme?

Anyone is equally likely to have useless thoughts as anyone else; To entitle fives to being more intelligent inherently would not be my style of opinion.

But I've been wrong many times.

10. 9s are body-based, which mean they identify and are overly in touch with their bodies. They're carefree, relaxed, receptive, open to others, go with the flow.
5s are head-based, which means they identify and are overly in touch with their thoughts. They're intense, focused, scattered, thoughtful, detached, distant.

9s find it very easy to be in-sync with the world around them, in a way that 5s don't.
5s find it easy to remove themselves from what's going on to think, in a way that 9s don't.

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