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[Type 8] 6s, are you really afraid?

Silveresque

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*Warning: may be mistyped*

Fear isn't something I strongly relate to. If I were asked what my greatest fear is, I would have to take some time to think about it because not much comes to mind, as there aren't many things I genuinely fear, as far as I'm aware. Anxiety, on the other hand, is a different story. When I say anxiety, I'm referring to an emotion which does not necessarily have an object as fear does. Anyways, I can't even remember the last time I didn't feel anxious on some level. I don't notice it all the time, but it's always there. I don't even know what it's like to not feel anxious.
 

Little_Sticks

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If you're a 6, how much fear do you really feel? Do you think feel you're essentially a mouse? Even if you're in a lion costume?

For the record, I don't know if I'd call it fear, but rather adrenaline. Or maybe that's supposed to be counter-phobic. Maybe there isn't much difference between the two.
 

Cellmold

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Thinking about this topic again, yes I am afraid.

I try to turn it into a propelling force to be overcome and confronted. However more often that is only a visualisation, my reality consists of me sitting in the dark, the embodiment of the human condition, scared to even step over the threshold.
 
T

The Iron Giant

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If you're a 6, how much fear do you really feel? Do you think feel you're essentially a mouse? Even if you're in a lion costume?

I don't consider myself fearful. I'm alert and prepared for contingencies. When something stressful is happening, a voice inside may warn me of the worst possible outcome. I'm simply smart enough to know better than to accept that as a likelihood, even if I do take it into account in my response to the stress.
 

Hecuba

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Yes, this is something I can myself relate too. I always fear any possible outcomes in concerns to myself, family or friends.
 

Azure Flame

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In my business experience with a lot of 6's (I don't know their level of health) I would rebrand their "fear" as "unproductive thought". As an 8, I more or less get a cocaine high when I make progress and see the possibility of wealth looming ever closer. The closer it gets, the harder I push, the less I eat. Meanwhile, my business E6 partner is completely slowing us down while me and a 3w2 ENFJ have the afterburners and throttle set to full.

for example:
me: I'm gonna go to the abandoned property forum and see if I can take some people's abandoned financial accounts.
6: but think of all the other people who are doing the same thing!
me: what good does that do me?
6: uh... not much I guess

Also, one of my business partners is a 6. He wrote the entire business plan by himself and planned to run the business completely on his own. The gym would have him and his wife in it, one of his trusted friends, and that's it. I worked for a 6, it was the same exact thing. Too scared to let the grass grow for fear of getting clipped. The 6's in my life don't seem to know how to control or set boundaries for their employees, or make a system that works. This could be lack of experience, or even because they all lack Ti. In business, you can't trust anyone, but you can trust the system you set in place. Meanwhile, I have 8 other subcontractors included in the revised business plan with an infrastructure that insures its in their best intrinsic interest to stay loyal to me. because, despite what we like to believe, success doesn't come at the hands of individuals.

another example:
me: send me your business plan if you want my money.
6: well, that actually makes me a little nervous. I put a lot of time and effort into this.
me: do you want my money or not?
6: *generic ingratiation, still doesn't give me business plan*
me: I'm going to make a business plan without your help, so you might as well hop on now or miss the train.
6: *sends business plan*

I wouldn't label them as scared, but their thinking is unproductive when we're trying to make progress. The guy wouldn't give me, the primary investor, his business plan. So I told him, "fine. I'm going to make one without you." Then he gave me his business plan and everything is peachy. But I recognize it by a sort of doubt, he runs up ahead, freezes, turns back, freezes, runs forward again, freezes... Its just indecision at its worst. And his method of compensating for his lack of confidence in his own (rather genius) business idea, was to plan the shit out of everything, down to the last penny.

So the good news is, we have an awesome business idea.

the bad news is, this guy is one of our close friends, and wants to be included, but isn't willing to put forth the risk or tell us how he intends on making that happen. I don't even think he's willing to tell us what he wants out of this, we're supposed to just assume it for him out of the goodness of our hearts. I think the issue is he has a complete lack of self assertion in all of our business meetings.

Another 6 story, my boss when I worked as a painter, would tell us he bought us pizza for lunch so we wouldn't have to think about what we'll eat that day. I said thanks, gave him the pizza he ordered, and went to my car and ate the lunch I already packed. haha. In a less positive sense, the fucking retard was a "bull rider" and was pissed at me because he was paying me $2.50 more per hour than everyone else, and that was somehow my fault for asserting this pay in the interview.

Anyway, the point is, in my experience, 6's need to realize what thoughts are unproductive, and what are. Brainstorming everything that could actually go wrong, productive. Not taking action because... they just don't feel good about it... unproductive. By all means, take safety precautions, have me sign an NDA or non-competition clause. But past that there is no excuse for inaction.
 

skylights

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I don't think it's fear as a tangible feeling, but instead fear as a primary motivator. More a sense of general anxiety, like Orangey explained.

I'm not "fearful", but I tend to overreact to things because of fear. I tend to immediately jump on things that feel threatening and seek to fix them. I wouldn't call myself CP in the sense that I don't pre-emptively attack, but I do prepare, and I pounce immediately upon feeling threatened. I'm still working on learning that sometimes sitting patiently and waiting is better, as everything tends to work out regardless.

In feedback I've gotten at work, people have expressed how I jump on things. It can be good, in terms of stomping out problems, but it can also seem sudden, intense, and somewhat unnecessary. I also can be incredibly ruminative and it can seem useless and obsessive to others, as well as unpleasant because I'm not free to engage in other things when I'm ruminating.

On the bright side, I research like there is no tomorrow, and when the time comes for me to jump into whatever I'm considering doing, I'm usually very well-prepared for the reality of it. It can be a huge asset in partnership with someone who is more optimistic, because then we have both a sense of hope and excitement and realistic preparation.


I would rebrand their "fear" as "unproductive thought".

Yes, true.

Also, one of my business partners is a 6. He wrote the entire business plan by himself and planned to run the business completely on his own. [...] 6: well, that actually makes me a little nervous. I put a lot of time and effort into this

The way you speak of it, I would hold back, too. If you want a 6 to trust you, you're better off demonstrating why they should than threatening them into it. The more information you can provide them with ensuring you're the right choice, the more smoothly things will go. Demonstrate past success, current research, future plans, reasons you as a person can be trusted, etc. 6s aren't stubborn for no reason; we're stubborn because we're excellent at seeing how things could go wrong. The more you give answers to why things won't go wrong, the more willing we will be.

Another 6 story, my boss when I worked as a painter, would tell us he bought us pizza for lunch so we wouldn't have to think about what we'll eat that day. I said thanks, gave him the pizza he ordered, and went to my car and ate the lunch I already packed. haha.

This is the second time you've mentioned this anecdote on the forum. I find it interesting, because to me it just seems like a simple demonstration of good will, and not really a big deal or worth bringing up, but it clearly struck a chord with you. Why? It feels like forced and unhelpful "helpfulness" from someone you don't like?
 

Azure Flame

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This is the second time you've mentioned this anecdote on the forum. I find it interesting, because to me it just seems like a simple demonstration of good will, and not really a big deal or worth bringing up, but it clearly struck a chord with you. Why? It feels like forced and unhelpful "helpfulness" from someone you don't like?

It stuck in my mind because it was the most obvious form of E6 projection anxiety I've encountered, so I use it as my quintessential example.
 

skylights

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It stuck in my mind because it was the most obvious form of E6 projection anxiety I've encountered, so I use it as my quintessential example.

Ah. Interesting. :thinking: I guess I tend to do that caretaking stuff too but mostly for my really close family members and my SO. I'd feel sort of weird doing it to coworkers.
 

The Great One

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My behaviour patterns are clearly 6, but what I can't wrap my head around is this idea that I'm supposed to be afraid all of the time. I've read people mentioning that counter phobic 6's aren't really brave, we're just secretly scaredy cats inside.

I guess in a way, you can say that me making a contingency plan, or steping up to something I dread is rooted in fear. But I don't experience it as proper fear, just as being alert or facing things head on. What I do is typically reactive, but I resent being seen as essentially timid. I just respond to things that I'm alerted to as potentially dangerous.

If you're a 6, how much fear do you really feel? Do you think feel you're essentially a mouse? Even if you're in a lion costume?

Personally, I'm scared shitless most of the time. I can never get out of my head, and I'm constantly looking for things to go wrong. It takes a great deal of effort for me to relax. However, not all 6's are like this. For instance, many counter-phobic sixes that I meet are very reactive just like myself. However, most of them just face the fear head on and just don't give a damn what happens. With counter-phobic 6's you can still see the anxiety in them, but they just face it head on. Many of them often come off as bold and courageous as well. They aren't like the extremely phobic 6w7's like Scott Pilgram or something like that. They can look a lot like 8's. Joe Pesci would be a good example of a counter-phobic 6. However, most of the 6's that I am referencing here are 6w7's, and 6w5's are a lot different.

Now 6w5's aren't as reactive as 6w7's and you can't openly see the anxiety of their faces and in their body language like the 6w7's. Phobic 6w5's are often the doom and gloom conspiracy theorists that always think that the government is taking over and whatnot. They also tend to over prepare for any type of disaster ever. If you watch the show "Doom's Day Preppers" it paints a pretty good picture of phobic 6w5's. A good example of a phobic 6w5 can be seen on the popular show "White Collar" the character "Mazzie" is a phobic 6w5 sp/so. Counter phobic 6w5's also tend to think that things are going to hell all the time but they almost have like a CIA secret agent vibe to them, and can often look like 1's or 8's. They tend to be the strategic mastermind in many films and they have more of dark and villlan-like presence to them a lot of times, but not always. The great strategist Sun Tzu was probably a counter-phobic 6w5. A good TV example of a counter-phobic 6w5 would be Michael Weston from "Burn Notice".
 

skylights

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Now 6w5's aren't as reactive as 6w7's and you can't openly see the anxiety of their faces and in their body language like the 6w7's. Phobic 6w5's are often the doom and gloom conspiracy theorists that always think that the government is taking over and whatnot. They also tend to ]over prepare for any type of disaster ever [...] A good TV example of a counter-phobic 6w5 would be Michael Weston from "Burn Notice".

Absolutely to both of these. I worked with a woman I think was an ISTP cp 6w5 and she was always going on about how everyone was trying to screw our department over, and conspiracy theories in the company, and conspiracy theories in the government, and so on. She was usually serious about it, but sometimes she'd get a glint in her eye and you could tell she kind of enjoyed being feisty. We all loved her because she was a softie inside and really protective, but she was totally the doomsday-prepper type. She kept all of her work supplies in a padlocked box and flipped out if anything wasn't in its place when she got there in the morning. She had a morning routine that would consist of coming in 30 minutes early (against the rules), eating a pastry in the back (against the rules), and leaving as early as possible in the day (against the rules), but other rules she followed to a T. She always did her job and did it well but she'd rant the whole time if she was riled up and would try to clear the hell out ASAP. Once her husband went to church with a black eye because he'd run into something and she told everyone she hit him to cover his embarrassment for it, even though all of us knew she'd never hurt a fly. She was fun. I miss her.

Though sometimes she and another coworker who I think is INFJ 6w7, SUPER phobic, would kind of wind each other up, and they'd just flip each other out completely, and that would suck. They'd be like two horsemen of the Apocalypse.
 

Mal12345

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Have we verified what Enneagramists have known for 45 years?
 

The Great One

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Absolutely to both of these. I worked with a woman I think was an ISTP cp 6w5 and she was always going on about how everyone was trying to screw our department over, and conspiracy theories in the company, and conspiracy theories in the government, and so on. She was usually serious about it, but sometimes she'd get a glint in her eye and you could tell she kind of enjoyed being feisty. We all loved her because she was a softie inside and really protective, but she was totally the doomsday-prepper type. She kept all of her work supplies in a padlocked box and flipped out if anything wasn't in its place when she got there in the morning. She had a morning routine that would consist of coming in 30 minutes early (against the rules), eating a pastry in the back (against the rules), and leaving as early as possible in the day (against the rules), but other rules she followed to a T. She always did her job and did it well but she'd rant the whole time if she was riled up and would try to clear the hell out ASAP. Once her husband went to church with a black eye because he'd run into something and she told everyone she hit him to cover his embarrassment for it, even though all of us knew she'd never hurt a fly. She was fun. I miss her.

Though sometimes she and another coworker who I think is INFJ 6w7, SUPER phobic, would kind of wind each other up, and they'd just flip each other out completely, and that would suck. They'd be like two horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Well thank you for agreeing with me.
 
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