[Type 9] Holy idea and 9s

[Bamboozle]

Nines are supposed to have 'love' as their holy idea. Does that mean anything to any 9s? Do Holy Ideas help anyone in their understanding of their own behaviour, 9s and others? I'm particularly interested in getting stories/examples of how people think through these Enneagram concepts in their real life.

Someone thinks I'm possibly a 9w1 but I haven't a clue how to interpret this 'love' as holy idea thing.

ETA: Brief explanation of the Holy Idea from these articles:

Each Enneagram type has a “Holy Idea”, which represents a particular characteristic of reality that they are particularly sensitive to. Each Enneagram type perceives one element of the universe above all others, and all type traits follow from this origin point.

So far as I understand it, the Enneatypes all have basic fears they perpetually run from and Holy Ideas they run to. And I noticed in some of the Enneagram threads that the things they were talking about, the things they were had trouble getting around and letting go of, could be interpreted to have to do with the 'Holy Idea'. Like Noon, they either had to perpetually strive for it or learn that they didn't have to try so hard (which is, I think, part of how the Enneatypes are supposed to learn to grow). I think the types have to learn to let go because, in the end, their Holy Ideas can't actually be realised except in an ideal world. To go to the stereotype, perfection can't actually be attained for the 1s but they feel compelled to try it anyway. 5s, stereotypically, strive for omniscience but simply can't get there. Thus, all the types are pushed and pulled in these different directions, first by fears then by this Holy Idea, and the cycle keeps going until the individual breaks it.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

[MENTION=7867]Bamboozle[/MENTION]

I think it's a cohesion thing. they ignore hate and focus on love, but this isn't the point of achieving an idea like love. I believe having that as an ideal is probably the most difficult because it is the most subjective and causes the most conflict.

 

[Noon]

Someone thinks I'm possibly a 9w1 but I haven't a clue how to interpret this 'love' as holy idea thing.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/history.asp

Holy Love is the recognition that all is one and that the oneness is ultimately benevolent and supportive. From this perspective we truly experience the well-known spiritual assertion that everything actually is made from Divine Love. When we truly know this, we relax our ego activity and trust Being to support us. It is almost unfathomable to the ego mind that not only could we be loved by the Divine, but that we are actually made of that love. The knowledge lets us move through our lives with deep compassion, nobility, and unshakable inner peace.

We can also see how Holy Love relates to the virtue of Action, because love itself has a dynamic affect on our souls. What transforms our lives more powerfully than love? What transforms our sense of ourselves more profoundly? Love is not static: it is living, dynamic force that melts down all barriers and boundaries, constantly working to restore our awareness to its pristine unity with Truth. In Holy Love, our sense of separateness dissolves, and we know ourselves as arising from the brilliant light of Divine Love that creates and sustains the universe.

A quick scan of the page implies that the "Holy Idea" seems to be what each type has idealized and compulsively tried to recreate within and around it due to the sense that it is missing in and around oneself. However, exactly due to human limitations and what type is (an exaggerated fixation), the recreation is bound to fall short. Once a type releases the perception that the existence of the idealized principle is dependent upon their efforts, it might embody the original form of their Holy Idea very well.

 

[Tiltyred]

Where does it tell about each number's Holy Idea?

 

[Bamboozle]

[MENTION=10654]Noon[/MENTION]: Oh, yes. I've read the descriptions. Theoretically, I know how it's supposed to go. I was wondering more about if people could actually relate their behaviour to the holy idea of their enneagram types. I suppose I was after stories as much as anything else to get a sense of how people thought through these concepts; how the ideas actually come into play.

[MENTION=9552]ReflecTcelfeR[/MENTION]: Mm, yes. Thanks for that. I do recognise those ideas from reading some 9 forum threads.

 

[Bamboozle]

Where does it tell about each number's Holy Idea?

Noon's link lists it a fair way down the page. There's also a series of posts on Personality Cafe summarising things like that.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Sometimes I think I am a nine. Inner peace is essential for me as being, but I find it hard to imagine someone opposing this idea... Maybe that's the true sign of the nine? I think I would integrate healthily into three. I do enjoy the idea of love, universally as well as personally.... I would also say that I trap the anger and release it into bursts. As for the holy ideal being love... Lemme think on it. Hope that helps a little more.

 

[Noon]

Oh, yes. I've read the descriptions. Theoretically, I know how it's supposed to go. I was wondering more about if people could actually relate their behaviour to the holy idea of their enneagram types. I suppose I was after stories as much as anything else to get a sense of how people thought through these concepts; how the ideas actually come into play.

Ahh, my apologies.

How I relate to Holy Will and Holy Perfection: In the past, when I've seen that someone needed assistance, I've assumed that I was the person to show them the best way and eagerly volunteered myself as such. I also felt that if I didn't do it, it might not ever be done, and at the time I couldn't trust that someone else would do it -- especially as well -- if not me.

Now, I don't bother even half as much. I've learned that people will eventually learn what they need to learn on their own if they really need to learn it, they will gain a valuable strength and understanding from their pain that they might not have if I'd intervened, and basically everyone will end up exactly where they are supposed to end up regardless of the time and method it takes for them to get there. It isn't up to me to help move things along. I'm not nearly so important, and my way is only the best for me.

 

[Bamboozle]

Inner peace is essential for me as being, but I find it hard to imagine someone opposing this idea...

As an introvert who really appreciates my alone time, I'd say that I in no way oppose the idea of inner peace. But at the same time, I don't know if I pursue it. For me, I don't think of the inside of my head as being particularly turbulent. It's certainly all turmoil when I'm stressed but, most of the time, it is my safe space and it seems peaceful enough for me.—So…I'm thinking that if it's not a drive, 9 is not necessarily your core…? (Still testing out my understanding of Enneagram, though.)

I do enjoy the idea of love, universally as well as personally.... I would also say that I trap the anger and release it into bursts. As for the holy ideal being love... Lemme think on it. Hope that helps a little more.

Thinking about the above quote and your comment about love and cohesion, the 9s in the threads that I read about seemed to be quite emotionally aware. They said that they knew situations could go bad, for example, but reacted by focusing all the harder on the good side of things. Do you feel like that about anger as well? Would you say you trapped it so that you didn't disturb…a sense of peace?


[MENTION=10654]Noon[/MENTION]:
That's really helpful, thank you. So, in your case, the Holy Ideas actually were things that you felt compelled to strive for. And later in life, you learnt to not hold those ideals so highly. I suppose that sounds pretty textbook for Enneagram!

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Yeah, I think that's a good way to view it. Keeping the peace, for me, has always been something I strive for, and I think I may be with [MENTION=10654]Noon[/MENTION] on this one and found that the peace I was protecting needed disturbing. So perhaps I have given up on the Holy Idea as well. When I was a child I would withhold all thoughts from others in an attempt to maintain a peaceful situations and now I do love a peaceful situation, but if we have to rock the boat to get there I don't mind in the slightest. I think of it as a challenge and dive into the shit storm! It is no longer a drive.

 

[KDude]

And here people have been typing me a 9 lately. I wonder why.

It sounds like the hardest type to be, as far as I'm concerned. Peace and love are not anything I'd want to strive for (If that sounds bad, I only mean it in terms of.. what's the most comfortable first course. As a general idea, it's great. I'm not sure how anyone actually lives it though).

 

[Bamboozle]

[MENTION=9552]ReflecTcelfeR[/MENTION]: Thanks, that's actually really helpful

[MENTION=9214]KDude[/MENTION]: I know what you mean. I'm starting to think that 9 is not really my thing. And I'd agree that it sounds like a pretty tough set of ideals to live by.

I think the person I was typed 9 because 9s are introverts with an interest/investment in the world outside their heads. I get the impression that 9s have a particularly hard time typing themselves, too, so people may get pointed to the 9 Enneagram types just in case.

 

[Tiltyred]

I don't see 9 as striving for it, more as having an awareness of it and not wanting anything to interfere with it. I could be way off-base, but I have 9 in my tri-type and I relate to it in that I feel life as a flowing thing and I try not to be a boulder in its path. I see 9 as having a very hands-off style and wanting there to be no striving and no hassle, for things to just flow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljnv3KGtcyI

 

[PeaceBaby]

Am I the only person posting here who knows she is a 9?

I would ask for a deeper explanation of what this "holy idea" is supposed to mean or represent before commenting.

This:

Each Enneagram type has a “Holy Idea”, which represents a particular characteristic of reality that they are particularly sensitive to. Each Enneagram type perceives one element of the universe above all others, and all type traits follow from this origin point.

doesn't explain anything to me.

Elaborate please?

 

[Tiltyred]

Please look at the first post, where the OP gives a link.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Please look at the first post, where the OP gives a link.

Thanks, but I have already accessed that link. IMO, there are much better descriptions of 9's out there than this one anyway.

The “Holy Idea” of Type Nine is love, a word that is so often used but so rarely analyzed. In this context, it does not refer to romantic love, it refers to a general sense of affection and appreciation. In Enneagram theory, a Type Nine individual is naturally sensitive to the concept of love (their Holy Idea) from a young age, which leads them to develop the traits normally associated with Type Nine in later years. As a Type Nine individual becomes more accustomed to the world, they are presented with the reality that things just aren't going to go smoothly. The ideal mental state of a Nine would be one of serenity and contemplation, but the world does not give up its conflict easily. The solution is for the Nine to withdraw from one's self and get absorbed in the outside world. At the same time, they are likely to seek peace in their endeavors, as it challenges the serenity they associate with love.

This tells me nothing. I need a definition of "Holy Idea". Ergo, my request still stands.

 

[Tiltyred]

Somebody here is supposed to explain that for you? It's the writer's own idea, I think.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Somebody here is supposed to explain that for you? It's the writer's own idea, I think.

No, it's not actually ...

OK, as my Dad says, when you want something done you have to do it yourself:

According to A.H. Almaas, in Facets of Unity: The Enneagram of Holy Ideas, each Enneagram style is an egoic perspective resulting from loss or absence of the enlightened perception of one of the Holy Ideas:

"Each Holy Idea is a view of reality which reflects an understanding of the wholeness and unity of the world or universe, of human beings, and of the functioning of reality... While perceiving the world through all of the fixations, each individual will perceive the world most strongly through the Holy Idea associated with his or her ennea-type. The fixated mental perspective of each is simply a blind spot, and the specific blindness is the lack of perception of the Holy Idea for that type."

Nine – Holy Love, the heart of truth, the quality of lovableness of reality when it is seen without distortion, rather than through the filter of the ego.

Source: http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/holyideas.htm

Ichazo's brilliant work was in discovering how these Divine Forms and their corresponding distortions connected with the Enneagram symbol and with the three Centers of human intelligence, Thinking, Feeling, and Instinct. He called the higher, essential qualities of the human mind the Holy Ideas, in accordance with western mystical tradition. Each Holy Idea also has a corresponding Virtue. The Virtues are essential qualities of the heart experienced by human beings when they are abiding in Essence. As a person loses awareness and presence, falling away from Essence into the trance of the personality, the loss of awareness of the Holy Idea becomes a person's Ego-fixation, and the loss of contact with the Virtue causes the person's characteristic Passion. While everyone has the capacity to embody all of the Holy Ideas and Virtues, one pair of them is central to the soul's identity, so the loss if it is felt most acutely, and the person's ego is most preoccupied with recreating it, although in a futile, self-defeating way. See the diagram below.

Source: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/history.asp


Hmm, will have to research and think about this more.

 

[KDude]

I need a definition of "Holy Idea". Ergo, my request still stands.

I take it to just mean the most comfortable or inviolable position people want to take.

I can see myself as a 6 actually.. maybe I should leave this thread. Heh

 

[Tiltyred]

Peacebaby, are you a 9? Was there something you were going to say as a 9 in reference to the purported Holy Idea of Holy Love being 9's thang? ...