[Type 4] Fours Instinct Questionnaire

[Silveresque]

Why? I don't relate to Sp hardly at all.

Sp seeks security through friends and relationships. How can you be a 6 and not relate to that?

 

[Hazashin]

Sp seeks security through friends and relationships. How can you be a 6 and not relate to that?

Okay, I do relate to what you said, but I don't recall seeing that in the Sp descriptions.

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I remember seeing a thread on here a little while ago asking how others felt about being touched by other people and how most people responded by saying that it made them uncomfortable and that they would say something like, "Please don't touch me." Well, I like physical touching quite a bit, so I'm like "please do". It saves me the trouble of having to awkwardly assert myself.

 

[Silveresque]

Sp seeks security through friends and relationships. How can you be a 6 and not relate to that?

Okay, I do relate to what you said, but I don't recall seeing that in the Sp descriptions.

I've bolded the parts that could imply that:

Self-pres/social

This subtype of Six is generally warm and friendly. The self-pres combines with the social instinct in such a way that the Six looks to find security in alliances. This type is the least counterphobic of the instinctual stackings of type Six. It's not so much that they can’t be counterphobic; it’s just not where they locate their security. They would rather feel comforted by the safety of like-minded individuals. Family and traditions are often very important to them. They can appear like enneatype One in their ability to get things done, their organizational style, their sense of duty, and their loyalty. This type is usually very independent and proactive when it comes to the details of life. They get things done before they become a problem. On the down side, they can become frozen with anxiety. This stacking is the most visibly anxious Six. They can exhaust themselves from worrying.

In relationships, when healthy, they are very loyal and trustworthy. The self-pres in the Six brings a focus on security. Security to the self-pres/social Six is generated by connections with other individuals or groups. These alliances with others foster a "going towards." This stance usually involves a testing of others to make sure that they are safe. Does the other person have the best interests of the Six at heart? They question other's intentions. It’s not generally an overt confrontational testing, but still, testing others is always an essential element in determining who becomes a trusted friend or romantic partner.

Self-pres/sexual

This type shares with the self-pres/social stacking the need to keep their environment in order. They also can appear One-like in that way. The differences revolve around the fact that they find their security more in their ability to attract a mate. They are concerned about how they are seen sexually. Their alliances to groups and authority can be quite conflicting. With the social instinct last in their stacking, this subtype can have a natural distrust of the social dynamic, especially when they fear it threatens their self-preservational concerns. The stance with regards to political or social concerns can vary wildly within this subtype. The self-pres is looking for safety and alliances with others, usually in a "going towards" fashion, but at the same time, the more assertive energy of the sexual instinct can manifest in a more counterphobic stance.

Their intimates are very important. Their issues with security are focused on their loved ones; their anxiety is closely tied to the pulse and feedback of the people closest to them. They are less outwardly fearful than the self-pres/social. While mainly phobic, their counterphobic nature shows in their sense of fun. They are drawn to intensity, and are likely to overcome fear in order to engage in adventures.(This is especially true with the Seven wing.)

That's just the impression I get from these two descriptions.

 

[brainheart]

Hmmm...yeah, I can see how having Sx second and Sp last might balance out that self-consciousness a bit. Sx makes you more intense and outgoing, while Sp last makes you less withdrawn and concerned about your well-being.

So I read this and thought, but I totally withdraw. Read the so/sx description and it says, "they drift and withdraw very easily." Just so you know-

 

[Hazashin]

I've bolded the parts that could imply that:

Self-pres/social

This subtype of Six is generally warm and friendly. The self-pres combines with the social instinct in such a way that the Six looks to find security in alliances.

I do not go looking for alliances for security, but I do like the security I have with the alliances I already have. But, my reasons for becoming friends are usually never for security reasons. Although I hate to admit it, I think that since I don't go out much at all or engage anyone in conversation outside of my friend zone unless they initiate contact with me (which I don't because I don't normally care to and my social skills are near nil), I do not get enough (one-to-one) contacts I subconsciously desire, so when I do become friends with someone, I attach to them easily.

This type is the least counterphobic of the instinctual stackings of type Six. It's not so much that they can’t be counterphobic; it’s just not where they locate their security. They would rather feel comforted by the safety of like-minded individuals.

I suppose the bolded is true, but mainly what stuck out to me is that I do not locate my security in being counterphobic.

[...]
In relationships, when healthy, they are very loyal and trustworthy. The self-pres in the Six brings a focus on security. Security to the self-pres/social Six is generated by connections with other individuals or groups. These alliances with others foster a "going towards." This stance usually involves a testing of others to make sure that they are safe. Does the other person have the best interests of the Six at heart? They question other's intentions. It’s not generally an overt confrontational testing, but still, testing others is always an essential element in determining who becomes a trusted friend or romantic partner.

Bolded: Not really.

The part about testing others to make sure they are safe: Not true at all.

Self-pres/sexual

This type shares with the self-pres/social stacking the need to keep their environment in order. They also can appear One-like in that way. The differences revolve around the fact that they find their security more in their ability to attract a mate.

Definitely not. I'm not confident in my ability to attract a mate at all lol.

They are concerned about how they are seen sexually. Their alliances to groups and authority can be quite conflicting. With the social instinct last in their stacking, this subtype can have a natural distrust of the social dynamic, especially when they fear it threatens their self-preservational concerns. The stance with regards to political or social concerns can vary wildly within this subtype. The self-pres is looking for safety and alliances with others, usually in a "going towards" fashion, but at the same time, the more assertive energy of the sexual instinct can manifest in a more counterphobic stance.

I'm not sure what "'going towards' fashion" means.

Their intimates are very important. Their issues with security are focused on their loved ones; their anxiety is closely tied to the pulse and feedback of the people closest to them. They are less outwardly fearful than the self-pres/social. While mainly phobic, their counterphobic nature shows in their sense of fun. They are drawn to intensity, and are likely to overcome fear in order to engage in adventures.(This is especially true with the Seven wing.)

DEFINITELY.

 

[Silveresque]

All right then. Sounds like Sx to me. Either Sx/Sp or So/Sx, but I guess the only way to know which is to compare with other 6's.

 

[brainheart]

Abridged versions of wisdom of the enneagram type four instincts:

Self preservation:
Average levels: practical, materialistic. Love gifts, building a nest. Most introverted fours; obsessive about physical surroundings. Desire for emotional intensity makes them reckless. Self indulgent; fall into poor eating habits and health routines- serve as compensation for unlived life.
Unhealthy: alcohol and drug abuse. Attracted to danger. Extremely irresponsible. Total disregard for needing a livelihood. May not show up to work or pay bills.

Social
Average levels: "totally unique"-gift and burden. Most socially active and engaged of type. Long to be involved; feel don't know how. Constantly compare self to others, never as good. Believe (due to shame) don't know how to function like others. May become attracted to alternative groups to compensate. Both defend defects and feel disadvantaged by them.
Unhealthy: withdraw almost completely due to fear of rejection. Insecurities make them unable to work in any inconsistent way. Often become dependent on family, friends, sig other. Isolation along with fantasies of achievement may cause them to waste their lives.

Sexual
Average levels- most exemplify romanticism, intensity and longing for rescuer of type. Sweetly vulnerable and impressionable but also aggressive and dynamic. More assertive and extroverted. Unlikely to let their romantic fantasies remain fantasies. Turbulent and stormy; lives revolve around their infatuation. Sensual and seductive; jealous and possessive. Strive for accomplishments that will make them acceptable to the other. Resentful of those who achieve those things. Idealization quickly shifts to rejection. Attracted to the unavailable.
Unhealthy: intense envy leads to sabotaging others for revenge- "misery loves company". Prone to rapid shift in feelings for others. Emotional chaos may lead to rash acts of violence against self or others.

What do my fellow fours make of this?

As far as this goes, I'm either an sp/so/sx or a so/sp/sx. I include the sx because it's definitely present, but the average levels sound like my unhealthy, as far as the instincts go. In other words, it's me at my most manic, which only ever happened every few years. Otherwise it's not so much on my radar. I don't consider myself materialistic but I love my pretty typewriter and my vinyl and books and setting is very important to me. Not luxurious, but thrift store bohemian. I kind of turn up my nose at luxury, it's too common... And I'm a cheapskate, which I suppose would tie in sp/so- I've always felt very contradictory- I'm very romantic, have this wanderlust, but have tended to live rather conservatively. I hate being cold, uncomfortable, etc, very much affects my mood, but the rain, I love... I def have that lack of regard for a livelihood, (depend on husband) which always puzzles me because I would prefer to be self sufficient. But yes, reckless at times as a reaction to this very conservative life I've created for myself.

Very much relate to the unhealthy social, not as much the avg. So that sounds like sp/so. But not on the ocean moonshine...

Arg. But yes, what about you? Is it consistent with the ocean moonshine stackings?

Are there any sp/so fours around here?

 

[Silveresque]

Abridged versions of wisdom of the enneagram type four instincts:

Self preservation:
Average levels: practical, materialistic. Love gifts, building a nest. Most introverted fours; obsessive about physical surroundings. Desire for emotional intensity makes them reckless. Self indulgent; fall into poor eating habits and health routines- serve as compensation for unlived life.
Unhealthy: alcohol and drug abuse. Attracted to danger. Extremely irresponsible. Total disregard for needing a livelihood. May not show up to work or pay bills.

Social
Average levels: "totally unique"-gift and burden. Most socially active and engaged of type. Long to be involved; feel don't know how. Constantly compare self to others, never as good. Believe (due to shame) don't know how to function like others. May become attracted to alternative groups to compensate. Both defend defects and feel disadvantaged by them.
Unhealthy: withdraw almost completely due to fear of rejection. Insecurities make them unable to work in any inconsistent way. Often become dependent on family, friends, sig other. Isolation along with fantasies of achievement may cause them to waste their lives.

Sexual
Average levels- most exemplify romanticism, intensity and longing for rescuer of type. Sweetly vulnerable and impressionable but also aggressive and dynamic. More assertive and extroverted. Unlikely to let their romantic fantasies remain fantasies. Turbulent and stormy; lives revolve around their infatuation. Sensual and seductive; jealous and possessive. Strive for accomplishments that will make them acceptable to the other. Resentful of those who achieve those things. Idealization quickly shifts to rejection. Attracted to the unavailable.
Unhealthy: intense envy leads to sabotaging others for revenge- "misery loves company". Prone to rapid shift in feelings for others. Emotional chaos may lead to rash acts of violence against self or others.

What do my fellow fours make of this?

I think these are very good descriptions. They do seem to be consistent with the ocean-moonshine descriptions overall, but these ones provide more specific details, which I think makes them more reliable.

I relate very much to both the average and unhealthy descriptions of the social instinct, and a little bit to the self preservation description, but I hardly relate at all to the sexual one. This pretty much confirms it for me: I'm definitely an So/Sp.

 

[Tiltyred]

I'm also 4w5 sp/so or sp/sx.

I have never had the luxury of depending on someone else, so I wonder sometimes if skews my results -- the more I know I have to take care of myself by myself, the more I make sure I take care of myself. I mean, I can't help but make it a focus, or I will be homeless and in big trouble. I do find it a monumental effort, though. It seems like it takes Herculean skills just to pay bills on time and keep a positive bank balance. (Don't explain it to me -- it's not that I don't know how, it's that I have trouble implementing, I don't know why.)

But at the same time, I purposely chose a job that doesn't demand ambition and has basically nowhere to go (because I'm not interested in going anywhere with a career -- I want to set it and forget it, which is kind of what I've done).

I think there is no question but that I was sx when I was younger. I don't know if those things can change, but I have realized what all that acting out does and have stopped it, and I stop the opportunities for it to happen before they happen, so, like, that shit has come to a dead halt and is no more and will not be again.

I don't compare myself to other people. I think Mark Twain said "What other people think of me is none of my business." I like that. I stay out of group situations completely because I find them so excruciating, though. I have the same thing others talked about where I agonize over something I said and am in one long cringing omg over it and it's entirely overboard -- but at the same time, see, I know people remember that stuff, because I have tested it -- if I say "Do you remember that time I said blah blah?" they will remember it. So I just don't do it anymore -- I don't enjoy it and I suffer afterwards, so I don't see any reason. Except that when I need help, there's no one to turn to. But I always figure it out. That's to me not a reason to try to engage other people, so that I will have them around in case I need help.

I don't know. It's difficult. It's interesting to read other 4s. Thanks for disclosing!

 

[OrangeAppled]

Bolded what I relate to in each...

Self preservation:
Average levels: practical, materialistic. Love gifts, building a nest. Most introverted fours; obsessive about physical surroundings. Desire for emotional intensity makes them reckless. Self indulgent; fall into poor eating habits and health routines- serve as compensation for unlived life.
Unhealthy: alcohol and drug abuse. Attracted to danger. Extremely irresponsible. Total disregard for needing a livelihood. May not show up to work or pay bills.

I don't relate to the sp of this one & it contradicts other 4 sp descriptions. I thought this irresponsible side was when the instinct is on the bottom rung and/or when the individual is unhealthy.

I'm quite the opposite; I am pretty practical about maintaining my physical space & going to work & paying bills for the average 4 (and INFP, if you believe the stereotypes).

I really only get chaotic when I'm stressed, and then I may eat badly, drink too much & let my apartment go to hell (see underlined above). I'm not particularly into gifts & wouldn't call myself materialistic. Even though I may use my possessions & personal space to express my identity, I'm not focused on having a lot of stuff, and I throw things out quite easily because I'm not very attached to specific things. It's more about an awareness of how aesthetics affect the mood, and wanting to be soothed by my environment. I do have a preoccupation with comfort in that way. Since I was a kid I hated camping & anything inconvenient to my comfort, and anything, well, UGLY or PLAIN. But in relation to other people, I am still pretty low-maintenance; as a house guest I'm easy to please.

I personally feel the sp instinct is also about individual emotional comfort, not just physical necessities. I think this is why its associated with being independent, self-sufficient and oblivious to the group. Along with being physically okay, I need to be emotionally okay, and I need to be in control of those things. If you use the "walk into a party" scenario, my first thoughts can be "where is the food/drink?" and "where can I sit/stand so that I have someone to talk to or am okay being alone?". I don't like to be dependent on others, so I want to know how I can control it myself.

Social
Average levels: "totally unique"-gift and burden. Most socially active and engaged of type. Long to be involved; feel don't know how. Constantly compare self to others, never as good. Believe (due to shame) don't know how to function like others. May become attracted to alternative groups to compensate. Both defend defects and feel disadvantaged by them.
Unhealthy: withdraw almost completely due to fear of rejection. Insecurities make them unable to work in any inconsistent way. Often become dependent on family, friends, sig other. Isolation along with fantasies of achievement may cause them to waste their lives.

I can relate to this somewhat, probably more than any other so description, but I can't say I long to be involved with a group (only individuals; and see underlined), and I am especially not socially active or engaged. I forget to be involved & can be too content to be alone. I really only long for a romantic partner or best friend, not to be accepted in a social sphere.

However, a lot of this does remind me of my shy side, which has eased up with age. I may feel shame at times for not knowing how to interact with ease, and I may withdraw because of it. I may become isolated as I get caught up in fantasies, finding them more satisfying in the short-term than the outside world, etc. Again, I thought because this is mainly the unhealthy side of so, that it may be my last instinct, my blind spot.

However, even when I feel totally at ease, sometimes I'm just oblivious and/or don't care to be involved, especially if my physical/emotional needs are satiated. I've gone to social functions knowing I will not fit in and not cared because I was promised free food & a full tank of gas if I drove .

Sexual
Average levels- most exemplify romanticism, intensity and longing for rescuer of type. Sweetly vulnerable and impressionable but also aggressive and dynamic. More assertive and extroverted. Unlikely to let their romantic fantasies remain fantasies. Turbulent and stormy; lives revolve around their infatuation. Sensual and seductive; jealous and possessive. Strive for accomplishments that will make them acceptable to the other. Resentful of those who achieve those things. Idealization quickly shifts to rejection. Attracted to the unavailable.
Unhealthy: intense envy leads to sabotaging others for revenge- "misery loves company". Prone to rapid shift in feelings for others. Emotional chaos may lead to rash acts of violence against self or others.

I relate to some of this, but I'm not as turbulent, not as fickle, not as prone to action with romantic interests (I resent when my own "longing" interferes with my independence), and I'm not even remotely extroverted or seductive.

What do my fellow fours make of this?

Arg. But yes, what about you? Is it consistent with the ocean moonshine stackings?

Are there any sp/so fours around here?

I'm not sure how I'd type myself based on this. If you look at the bolded, so/sx stands out most here, but then it wouldn't explain my sp side other descriptions nail. I could still be sp/sx if you cut out the really emotionally unhealthy aspects described, or only include them as a part of stress. I might be any type based on these.

 

[brainheart]

I'm also 4w5 sp/so or sp/sx.

I do find it a monumental effort, though. It seems like it takes Herculean skills just to pay bills on time and keep a positive bank balance. (Don't explain it to me -- it's not that I don't know how, it's that I have trouble implementing, I don't know why.)

But at the same time, I purposely chose a job that doesn't demand ambition and has basically nowhere to go (because I'm not interested in going anywhere with a career -- I want to set it and forget it, which is kind of what I've done).

I think there is no question but that I was sx when I was younger. I don't know if those things can change, but I have realized what all that acting out does and have stopped it, and I stop the opportunities for it to happen before they happen, so, like, that shit has come to a dead halt and is no more and will not be again.

I stay out of group situations completely because I find them so excruciating, though. I have the same thing others talked about where I agonize over something I said and am in one long cringing omg over it and it's entirely overboard -- but at the same time, see, I know people remember that stuff, because I have tested it -- if I say "Do you remember that time I said blah blah?" they will remember it. So I just don't do it anymore -- I don't enjoy it and I suffer afterwards, so I don't see any reason. Except that when I need help, there's no one to turn to. But I always figure it out. That's to me not a reason to try to engage other people, so that I will have them around in case I need help.

I don't know. It's difficult. It's interesting to read other 4s. Thanks for disclosing!

I relate to all of this substantially. Thank you!
But I'm also thinking everything was just way more extreme when I was younger- the sp was more reckless, the sx more obsessed... Now I'm getting in more of a state of equinimity.

 

[Silveresque]

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION], I'm exactly the same as what you described for Sp and So, and I would have bolded almost the exact same parts. I don't relate to any of the Sx parts, though. Still, it seems we're pretty much the same in Sp and So, but we've interpreted them differently, so now I'm not really sure what to think. I also don't really want to commit to being socially involved, but I feel like I have to because I don't want to be completely alone. Does this mean I'm not an So-dom, or is that not really what it's about?

I would have bolded the exact same parts for Sp. Only a few differences for So:

Social
Average levels: "totally unique"-gift and burden. Most socially active and engaged of type. Long to be involved; feel don't know how. Constantly compare self to others, never as good. Believe (due to shame) don't know how to function like others. May become attracted to alternative groups to compensate. Both defend defects and feel disadvantaged by them.
Unhealthy: withdraw almost completely due to fear of rejection. Insecurities make them unable to work in any inconsistent way. Often become dependent on family, friends, sig other. Isolation along with fantasies of achievement may cause them to waste their lives.

 

[brainheart]

Double post.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Maybe you've never really been unhealthy? (i don't know, of course.)

I think the theory of instinct riso-hudson follow is whatever your dominant instinct is, it swings like a pendulum. Healthy, you're really good at that instinct, it's natural, easy, just happens. Average, you focus on it too much. Unhealthy, it's like it explodes.

So..

Sx- look to relationship to solve all areas of life. No relationship can do that. Lack of balance in other areas leads to relationship problems. (want soul mate. Get soul mate. Not soul mate.)

So- look to community, belonging to solve all areas in life. Belonging can't do that. Lack of balance in other areas leads to social problems. (want to belong. Belong, but don't feel like it. And don't really want to belong. Hide from society. No longer belong.)

Sp- look to handling personal welfare needs to solve all areas in life. Lack of balance in other areas leads to personal welfare problems. (want comfort. Get comfort. Comfort is boring. Shake it up. No longer comfortable.)

Oh, no, I've been "unhealthy" . I think everyone has unstable moments/phases, at least....

This description would make me sp/sx then, as it's in line with my general understanding of myself & the instinctual types. Like I said, I can relate to the unhealthy bits of the sp type when I am stressed. The pendulum definitely swings the other way then. Sx is very true of me in this way also, except I think the pendulum is less extreme being that it's my second instinct. The focus that occupies my mind least is the social one. I mean, it's nice "& stuff", just not anything I see as meeting main needs, so it's on the backburner in my head.

 

[brainheart]

I decided to just go ahead and leave what I related to:

Abridged versions of wisdom of the enneagram type four instincts:

Self preservation: practical, building a nest. introverted obsessive about physical surroundings. Desire for emotional intensity makes them reckless. Self indulgent; fall into poor eating habits and health routines- serve as compensation for unlived life.
Unhealthy: alcohol abuse. Attracted to danger. Extremely irresponsible. Total disregard for needing a livelihood. May not show up to work or pay bills.

Social
Average levels: "totally unique"-gift and burden. feel don't know how to belong. Believe don't know how to function like others. Both defend defects and feel disadvantaged by them.
Unhealthy: withdraw almost completely due to fear of rejection. Insecurities make them unable to work in any inconsistent way. Often become dependent on sig other. Isolation along with fantasies of achievement may cause them to waste their lives.

Sexual
Average levels- romanticism, intensity and longing. Sweetly vulnerable and impressionable but also dynamic. Unlikely to let their romantic fantasies remain fantasies. lives revolve around their infatuation (when infatuated, which is rare. -Bh). Sensual. Strive for accomplishments that will make them acceptable to the other. Attracted to the unavailable.
Unhealthy: Prone to rapid shift in feelings for others.

 

[brainheart]

This description would make me sp/sx then, as it's in line with my general understanding of myself & the instinctual types. Like I said, I can relate to the unhealthy bits of the sp type when I am stressed. The pendulum definitely swings the other way then. Sx is very true of me in this way also, except I think the pendulum is less extreme being that it's my second instinct. The focus that occupies my mind least is the social one. I mean, it's nice "& stuff", just not anything I see as meeting main needs, so it's on the backburner in my head.

This is what I've always thought for myself, too, but then I was wondering if I was misunderstanding the social instinct in four or something. But that makes sense. I'm picturing three bouncy balls. The dominant instinct bounces the highest, the second less, the third the least. They're all bouncing, but the thrust put into the bouncing is noticeably different.

 

[Silveresque]

Maybe I'm Sp/So?

I've noticed when I'm feeling stressed/unhealthy, I get extremely lazy and irresponsible, and I procrastinate on everything I don't want to do for as long as I can, or until I'm in the right mood. I also become increasingly withdrawn and isolated, and have no desire to be around people or socialize. Normally, I plan a time to do things I have to do, and I do them at that time, without procrastinating (well, with less, anyways). But I suppose I'm normally pretty withdrawn and isolated even when I'm not stressed/unhealthy, so maybe that pendulum is less extreme.

 

[Silveresque]

You know what, I think I'm going to be Sp/So now.

...I've lost track of how many times I've changed my variant.

 

[Matt_s]

1) What is your type (4w3 or 4w5) and instinctual variant, and how positive are you that your variant is accurate?

4w5 sp/so. Pretty sure by the standard of having taken cursory glances at enneagram theory and having tested consistently so over a couple of years.

2) How would you describe your overall focus when alone versus in social situations? EDIT: What are you focused on/thinking about?

When alone I'm generally not as self-conscious. I constantly dwell on how I'm presenting myself in social situations. I'm much better at developing ideas alone. Using less RAM on elbow location.

3) How would you describe your interaction style when in a group?

An outlier. Decisive when a decision seems arbitrary to me just to move things along. Not really driving discourse as much as decorating it. I'm much more into pulling people aside unless it's absolutely necessary to go into detail about something in a group setting.

4) How would you describe your interaction style in one-on-one situations?

I ask questions. I relate personal experiences that I see as relevant. I'm much more warm than in group settings. I like having people all to myself.

5) How well does this description of your variant fit you?

8/10. It may overstate my practicality but I'm highly depressive.

6) How did you decide on your variant? Was there anything that gave it away, or else made you change your mind from what you previously thought it was?

Just tested and it seemed right. Could flip the so and sp but sx is out of the picture. I'm not volatile and I don't care about "things" all that much.

 

[brainheart]

Now that I finally have this figured out, here we go:

Edit: I don't have it figured out at all. I use all of them. This instinct thing completely confuses me.