• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Type 4] The deliverance of 4

BAJ

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
626
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
4w5
How can one be a happy 4? What is essential?

I prefer recommendations outside of anti-depressants...
 

Santosha

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
1,516
MBTI Type
HUMR
Enneagram
6
Instinctual Variant
sx
I don't know. I'm fairly certain I'm a 4 and I'm not "unhappy" per say. Infact, I can't even really look at my life and think happy, sad, content, etc. My moods seem to fluctuate so much it's hard to say. My life seems more marked by searching and struggling, but with a hopeful light at the end of the tunnel that I forever chase. No matter how down and out I can get at times, that light always seems to keep me moving, trying, and that seems to keep me happy? For me its about progress. It always seems to come down to progress. As long as there is something to improve and throw that emotional energy into, be that traveling or working out or going to school or jumping into hobbies.. i am happy. I'd say that I have a much greater fear of what life might look like If I don't have any progress to make. Like, I don't ever want to see a picture of "making it" because the day I wake up and have nothing to improve on, is the day I die. But I don't know, maybe I'm not a core 4. When I look at this it almost seems like 3 traits? What do you think? I always thought I was 4w3....
 

Santosha

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
1,516
MBTI Type
HUMR
Enneagram
6
Instinctual Variant
sx
On a side note, I am also intersted if their are any really content 4's out there. How does one really pull that off?
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It may not be true for everyone, but for me as a 4, the more independent I have become, the happier. In other words, the fewer people whose approval I depend on, the better.
 

VagrantFarce

Active member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,558
On a side note, I am also intersted if their are any really content 4's out there. How does one really pull that off?

Of course there are! It's all about emotional temperance. Take control of yourself and live for the moment, instead of something you feel you can never have.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Integration of 1 traits provides balance. You can actively, consciously work to integrate 1 traits.

Here are a few positive 1 traits & how I think they counter 4 tendencies which can prevent happiness & fulfillment:

- being self-disciplined and able to accomplish a great deal - The 4 needs to learn self-discipline - not giving into moods. If they do this, they will accomplish more, coming closer to their ideal self, which will ease feelings of defectiveness & depression.

- working hard to make the world a better place - The 4 needs to learn to take action in the external world instead of wallowing in feelings & fantasy. Taking action, especially unselfish action, will make them less self-absorbed, and the positive results will again make them feel less defective, less disconnected from other people, less of a phony in relation to their ideals, etc. They will have REAL accomplishments to support their unique self-image.

- having high standards and ethics; not compromising myself - The 4 already has high standards they have a hard time living up to, which can depress them. The 1 type uses structure to meet their standards, adjusting to the external if necessary, and this is what the 4 needs to do also. They need to accept some external systems to meet goals instead of rejecting, rebelling & withdrawing in a stubborn insistence on being unique & doing it in their own way.

- being reasonable, responsible, and dedicated in everything I do - This is related to the above points. The 4 needs to be realistic about the goals they set & reasonable about how to meet them, and they need to follow through on accomplishing things even when not in the "mood".

- being able to put facts together, coming to good understandings, and figuring out wise solutions - The 4 needs to get outside perspective. They need to be aware of all facts, not just those which suit their romantic views. They need to work towards solutions in reality, figuring out the baby steps, not becoming overwhelmed & despairing that the world is at odds with their ideals.

- being the best I can be and bringing out the best in other people - The 4 needs to accept the best of who they are, letting go a bit of their impossible ideal. They need to focus more on others, which again, eases self-absorption & boosts self-esteem when the 4 sees they are valued by others. This will help the 4 to connect with people & feel accepted, which is something they long for but may have felt was impossible before.

You will notice here that the focus of the 1 is external (others, the world, behavioral standards), whereas the focus of the 4 is internal (identity, feelings, self-expression). This is why 1 traits will balance out 4 traits.
 

CuriousFeeling

From the Undertow
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,937
MBTI Type
INfJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
How can one be a happy 4? What is essential?

Integrating into 1 traits, like OrangeApplied has mentioned.

For me, personally, what has helped is the following:

- Setting realistic dreams and expectations out of life.
Even though I may yearn for the impossible, or to have everything I identify with (interests, ideas, etc) to be more widely accepted and loved, I realize that everyone is into different things, just like me. Knowing that it isn't just me who is different, puts everything into perspective, I know that it would be rather difficult to get everyone to love everything there is in the world. Also, imagining if the rest of the world operated the same way as I do, having the same interests and the like, as me, would ultimately make me lose my sense of identity because everyone else is just like me. So just embracing my eclectic qualities as well as my flaws helps me to cope with things. The truth is, there are some dreams that we all yearn to obtain, but some may be almost too grandiose to execute in the real world. It does pain me that some of these dreams I have may not always be possible, but life in itself isn't always fair.

- Constructively deal with emotions and dreams.
With knowing that there are some dreams that may seem difficult to realize in present reality, what I end up doing is finding ways to make them come true in small ways. The fantasies that I wish to realize I end up making them come true at least in literature and in art and music. Wishing to collaborate with some of my favorite musicians, for instance... I end up integrating their styles into my own work, and essentially it is a way of working with them, at least in spirit.
When I feel quite depressed about things in life, I end up creating art out of it. Sometimes the best works I have created have arose from some of the most painful moments of my life. It's sort of the light in the darkness. I also get more involved in productive activities that help get things done, rather than wallowing in negative emotions. It may be difficult to concentrate completely, but giving myself a great deal of self-discipline helps. Focusing my energy towards reachable expectations and goals makes me feel more empowered. Then the dreams turn to reality.
 

Zangetshumody

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
458
MBTI Type
INTJ
To overcome the endless rehearsal's and daydreaming about coming off a certain way to others, one needs to master calmness. Calmness is basically comprised of 2 elements, apathy and hope. So when you find yourself fantasizing about being perceived positively by others in your dreamt up conversations, think to yourself: No, I don't care to fantasize, I will rather have a more spontaneous and real interaction with people in the future; I don't care to rehearse anything anymore, I will instead be hopeful and at peace (calmness).
 

BAJ

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
626
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
4w5
I just want to chime in and say that I'm reading everything.

Aren't I supposed to find a magical, wonderful S.O. with #1 traits, who will redeem me?

Kidding...

Yes, I have a great deal of difficulty with "self-discipline". I have a tendancy of not being able to apply myself to any definite schedule or plan.

The other 1 traits look possible.

Maybe I can personify them as an aspect of myself or an imaginary friend.

BAJ4 say, "Hey we can write novel, and it will the win the Nobel prize, so we need to reherse our acceptance speech."

BAJ1 says, "That is unrealistic my dear."

Anyway, I'll be reading this and other posts, and see what I can integrate for my happiness.
 

wildflower

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
317
i'd say follow your bliss. for me that would include things like spending time in nature, looking at or creating art, getting lost in a great novel, listening to some music that i love, etc. sometimes i have a hard time making time for those things though.

what brings you happiness?
 
B

brainheart

Guest
Self discipline is the biggest, really, but not in a strict finger wagging sort of way. Setting a goal of something that really matters to you and finishing it is huge.

Not being your own critic. If you are creating something, create it with all your heart. It's not your job to judge it.

A sense of perspective- you are not your feelings, try to consider things objectively.

And yes, sometimes mood stabilizers, anti-depressants help make all of the above more possible for some of us.
 

BAJ

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
626
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
4w5
Well, it's said that if you drop what causes you unhappiness then what is left is "happiness".

There are a great deal of sad things.
1.) my childhood (mostly). MY father said nothing positive to me ever. There was absolutely nothing I could do earn a crumb of approval. (I can't change my past. Maybe the "E-1 imaginary friend" and I can go back and visit my childhood self.)

2.) My job is difficult because it seems that we work harder and harder for decreasing revenue, and this economy seems bad. We produce a luxury good. Further, even if sales were great, our actual production was very bad. (But it's not as simple as quitting my job to find a new one. My current job is very rare.)

3.) Lack of relationships, which is life-long.

4.) 40 year old virgin. It's not so much that sex is a great, wonderful place. It's that I seemingly have little ability to form psychologically intimate relationships, and it doesn' seem to be getting easier.

Probably (according one online test) I have major depression. However, local therapist has told me he doesn't want to see me because I don't really have a class 1 disorder like schzophrenia or something.

I can't even talk about some of the problems in a forum.

----

What causes me happiness?

1. Suceeding at my job or E-5 praise.

2. Approval and feedback (like this thread) :) :)

3. My pets (dog and cat)

4. I'm reading a book I like.

5. Approval from my source of security (my job)

6. Hints of improvement in the economy

7. Food (acutual I wonder if I'm getting an eating disorder)

8. Shopping. I spent an insane amount this week, which may be another "disorder". I have about $80 of stuff coming from Amazon, for example.

9. I live and work in nature, so I like nature. I also enjoyed my trip to a medium sized city last weekend. Also, I'm socializing with a local free thought group, which I hope to do more regularly.

10. Functional equipment and vehicles.

11. Looking the baby fish at night with a flashlight.

----
There are probably other things that make me happy. I think my childhood created a well of sadness that will never be satisfied.

I was reading about major depression in conjunction with taking an online test. It said that suicide is more likely when "coping skills" are less than "pain". Therefore, in this thread, I'm seeking both ways to increase my coping skills and reasons for living, and also ways to decrease my "pain", such as it is.

----

Thanks for your replies!
 
Top