[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] 3/4/3

[Chloe]

ground floor on this thread, as I've thought about either 3w4 or 6w5 myself

That Bill Clinton video seems pretty close to the way I speak, actually



I thought about this in the e3 descriptions, too. The desire to be well-liked, the inclination toward subtly reading other people in order to determine what they want you to be.. well, a comparison to a not-completely-grounded Fe is pretty hard to ignore.

Key is the part "not completely grounded"!

Trying to fit enneagram in cognitive functions is so wrong....

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Skylight, that video was so fantastic and beautiful! And your voice... looks like if you were a beautiful siren. Oh, by the way, it sounds very much like Evan Rachel Wood, so much that I really think you share the same type.

 

[garbage]

Trying to fit enneagram in cognitive functions is so wrong....

I agree wholeheartedly

It's just that "kinda, sorta looks like and/or might be interpreted to have a vague positive correlation to" is different than "absolutely is" or "definitely fits"

 

[Thalassa]

Skylight, that video was so fantastic and beautiful! And your voice... looks like if you were a beautiful siren. Oh, by the way, it sounds very much like Evan Rachel Wood, so much that I really think you share the same type.

I agree, when I heard her speak I did *not* think 3.

 

[Chloe]

3s can sound every mbti and e type there is - tthey just choose their style and attitude and act so. If they choose to sound 6-ish they will. AND they will not know it. Itis very subtle ( tlking in general didnt hear skylights vid yet)

 

[Chloe]

Aleksei thinks I'm a 6
!!!

He just told me he thinks ure either 3 or 6, and cant decide but i made qquite convincing argument for your Three he said it makes sense

(he said ure like CP 6 in encounters, i said u told its often bc u dont want to be seen in negative light publicly - CP 6s have COMPLETELY different motive to act that way, they do it out of fear...)

 

[Thalassa]

Well I always test 4 or 6, and never test as 3. Also, on one test that showed percentages, 3 was actually my LOWEST score.

However, I did find your argument somewhat convincing, but was also intrigued by the fact that a Sexual/Self-Pres 6 can look very much like a 3, and that Speed was able to show me video examples.

I can really see the difference between myself and Sparrow.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Well I always test 4 or 6, and never test as 3. Also, on one test that showed percentages, 3 was actually my LOWEST score.

However, I did find your argument somewhat convincing, but was also intrigued by the fact that a Sexual/Self-Pres 6 can look very much like a 3, and that Speed was able to show me video examples.

I can really see the difference between myself and Sparrow.

The thing also is that the Sexual subtype of the 3 is "Masculine/Feminine Image" while the Sexual subtype of the 6 is "Strength & Beauty", very similars so.
I choosed to post your respective videos because they really illustrate the differents styles and the energy associated, and with the same subtype. But it works for Self-Pres 3 and Self-Pres 6 as well, example from a Palmer's workshop:

[youtube=lour_PvZINo]Self-Preservation 3w4[/youtube]
[youtube=WqXjvs4APuI]Self-Preservation 6w7[/youtube]
And as for the Sexual/Social variant:

[youtube=FqzM0wpWMUo]Type 3 vs Type 6[/youtube]

I think that we can see the "point", the essential differences between the two styles, and the core characteristics wich are shared by every people of the same type whatever they wing/subtype is. What is especially interesting with the second video is that Lady Gaga and Madonna are both playing a role, but they are unaware of their kinesthesic difference and so did'nt try to modify it,so the carachteristics of both types still particulary visibles.

 

[skylights]

aw you guys are so sweet about my voice, thank you

i'm not sure i understand the kinesthetic differences between the two, speed. what i seem to notice is both 3s are somewhat less "soft". madonna looks at lady gaga more than lady gaga looks at madonna. she seems somewhat more aware of herself in relation to the other...?

i can see it possible that i'm a 6w7 so/sx (or sx/so), more phobic than counter, or 3w4, same variants. i have a lot of trouble relating to both sp-first 3 and 6. they both are so concerned with themselves and their personal good/security - i know at some level i am as well, but i do not think overtly in those terms. i think more in terms of others - how they see me, how/where i fit in, how the person i'm interacting with feels about me, how i fit (or do not) into the environment/atmosphere, etc. i do feel concerned that i make my folded laundry look nice, because it's a reflection on myself, but i've never turned it into a competition, lol. though public events, sometimes i feel competitive. i do want people, when they see me, to be impressed/like me... though, the thing is, i'm quite artistic/aesthetic, and i don't know if the way i express that through my being, through my body, is a reflection on my enneatype, or just a reflection that i'm artistic. i feel like i am a canvas, somewhat. i can change myself to suit the atmosphere of the weather, or of my own mood, or of whatever event i am going to attend. i mostly do it for myself, though certainly i keep in mind where i am going and what i will be doing, and my "audience". my style in general is more creative/loose than a 3w2 sp/sx i know. she is more classic, seamless, perfectly suited to the occasion. i am "lighter", more flowy, more artistic. though certainly she is aesthetically gifted, as well.

i found something that i thought was very interesting, explaining how 3 and 6 seem so similar in some aspects.

As the result of their formative experiences, Sixes became connected with their protective figures. [...] As children, Sixes wanted the security of approval by their protective figures, and felt anxious if they did not receive it. As they grew up, their connection with their protective figure shifted to an identification with substitutes for this person, such as civil authorities or belief systems from which they could obtain security.

Because they are connected to the protective figure, Sixes powerfully internalize their relationship with that person, whether it is a loving, supportive one, or a difficult, destructive one. They continue to play out in their lives the relationship with the person who held authority in their early childhood years. If Sixes as children perceived that their protective figure was benevolent, and a reliable source of guidance and encouragement, as adults, they will continue to look for similar direction and support from others, be it their spouse, their job, their therapist or a mentor. They will do their best to please this figure or group, and will dutifully observe the rules and guidelines they have been given. In this case, though, Sixes will feel extremely disappointed and betrayed if the other person or situation violates their trust or fails to live up to their expectation of support. [...]

Furthermore, just as Threes, to varying degrees, abandoned themselves to become more acceptable to their nurturing figures, Sixes abandon themselves to gain security from their protective figure or from someone or something which is acting as a substitute for that person. In both cases, Sixes feel cut off from an internal sense of their own stability, their own ability to move forward in the world with confidence. They may act this out directly, through a phobic, dependent approach to life, or they may react against it with assertive, counterphobic behavior. Either way, Sixes are not really experiencing their own inner capacity and strength, and must constantly look outside themselves for reassurance, support, and evidence of their ability to successfully engage with life. [...]

As a result of their identification with the protective figure, whether phobic or counterphobic, Sixes are internally questioning their activities to see whether they will meet with the internalized standards of the protective figure—their superego. Like Ones, Sixes are often trying to figure out the "right" course of action, and they attempt to do this by thinking about how their various mentors, allies, and authority figures would respond to each choice. Sixes may go around and around in this process for days if the decision is a major one, because they are afraid of alienating any of their supporters. It is as though Sixes must regularly hold committee meetings in their imagination to "check in" with the different people with whom they have identified. [...] In all Sixes, the pattern of orienting themselves to life by obtaining the reassurance and approval of others (who, in one way or another, function as external sources of security and support) is one which is deeply ingrained in their nature.

As young children, Threes were connected to the nurturing-figure, the person in their early development who mirrored them, cared for them, and provided affection and a sense of value. Young Threes are highly adaptable and responsive to the emotional states of others, and so learn to adjust themselves to the reactions and subconscious expectations of their nurturing-figure. [...]

In their formative years, Threes learn to tune into the desires and hopes of their nurturing-figure. The expectations of the nurturing-figure need not be expressed explicitly. With the remarkable intuitive gifts of children, young Threes know what will please their nurturers, and which behaviors produce approving looks and smiles. All of this is quite natural, and if the nurturing-figure is reasonably healthy, the Three will mature into a well-balanced person with good self-esteem. But to the degree that the nurturing-figure has unresolved narcissistic needs of his or her own, the Three will have to make much greater adaptations. To please the troubled nurturer, young Threes will have to abandon themselves to become the person who will be approved. In cases where the nurturer was more pathological and needy, Threes will have to disconnect from their own feelings and needs almost entirely. Little that the child can do will get the nurturing-figure to approve of them, or validate their existence. The result is a desperate individual with deep narcissistic wounds and an intense underlying hostility for being forced to abandon his or her own heart.

As adults, Threes continue to play out this pattern from early childhood. They seek out people whom they admire and esteem to give them validation and admiration. Threes are not interested in indiscriminately getting everyone to like them: rather, they focus on specific individuals who they themselves view as valuable, successful people. Although this motivates Threes to do those things which will make them seem worthwhile to others, this also leaves them highly vulnerable to fears of rejection. They will work tirelessly to avoid ever being rejected, ever being seen as a "loser." The admiring gaze which they sought from their nurturing-figures made them feel that they were loved and valued, and in one form or another, they are always seeking that look in the eyes of others. Admiration makes them feel alive and worthwhile—at least for a while; without it, they feel empty and hostile because their underlying feelings of not being valued for who they are begin to surface.

Average Threes perceived that, as children, they were generally valued for what they accomplished, for the quality of their performance, not for themselves. [...] Threes believe that others will only love them for their image and for their success, but if people were to really get to know them, they would see that the person beneath the image and they would be rejected. Because of difficult childhood experiences with their nurturing-figure, average Threes cannot accept the idea that others could love them just as they are. It seldom occurs to them that the most important person who has rejected them is themselves.

To give up their performance and risk exposing the vulnerable self within feels like an enormous risk to Threes. They feel that they have been rejected in the past: why risk it again? They also become convinced that their real self is relatively undesirable and that only their performance is worthwhile. They have put so much effort into it, to give it up seems unthinkable. Yet, if Threes never take that risk, never dare to explore the real person they left behind in childhood, they may become successful in the eyes of others, but they will never know what it really is to be themselves, nor will they be able to relate to, much less feel love, from anyone else. Sadly, newspapers and magazines are full of stories of highly successful people who seemed to "have everything going for them," but who, suddenly contradict their popular image in startling and tragic ways. One can only imagine the desperation and despair of a person who has tirelessly worked to accomplish what they believed would make them feel good about themselves, only to discover that their feelings of emptiness did not go away.

they both relate to a strong parental figure. they both look to others for approval and positive self-concept.

 

[Starry]

Speed...do you have an example of a 7w6 sp/sx? Or 7w6 sx/sp? (I fear the 7 sx will be like the lead singer of Poison or something).

I don't want to hijack skylight's thread...but Marm has changed her e-type to 6w7...and skylights is still considering it (?). I so do not have a beautiful voice LOL.

 

[skylights]

aw starry i wouldn't assume! i never really thought my voice was pretty. i actually got teased for it by some dumb kids in 5th grade because it tends to be quite high when i'm friendly/excited and much lower when i'm sarcastic. they said i was "trying not to be a man"? lol. i am quite feminine in general but definitely have a little tomboy streak, too.

anyway feel free to hijack the thread all you want, it doesn't bother me all the better if the thread can help people besides just me!!

i'll probably just continue to blather on about myself anyway

this is what i could see myself as: 6w7 sx/so ~~

Sixes with a 7 wing are generally outgoing and may appear more overtly nervous. More plainly want to be liked and will pursue others in contrast to 5 wing who pulls in. Can be charming, sociable, ingratiating. Have a faster tempo, stronger connection to 3. Often self-preservation subtypes, characterized by a personal warmth. Can have a cheerful, forward-looking drive and be disarmingly funny. Self-effacing, gracious and curious. When more entranced, may be self-contradicting and seem as if they want two things at once. Sometimes test others overtly, drive you crazy with mixed messages. It may be hard to follow what they're saying. When threatened, one defense is to become impossible to please. When counterphobic, they tend to be accusative. Some get caught up in big plans that they hope will result in material security. Also can be insecure, irritable, petty, irrational, chaotic. Subject to mood swings, inferiority complexes, runaway fears. May have hair-trigger flare-ups of paranoia. Falsely accuse others and then seem not to realize it. Other times they plead to be taken care of. Sometimes defensively conservative in their lifestyle. Some struggle with appetite.

Sexual Sixes get their sense of security primarily from their emotional bond with a significant other. But they also have many doubts, both about their own ability to have a suitable mate and about the mate's ability or willingness to really be there for them. Sexual Sixes often manifest a tension between their gender roles: they are both masculine and feminine, "macho" and coquettish. Moreover, Sexual Six women have a tough, tomboy side to them but still come across as feminine. Similarly, the men of this Variant display a sensitivity and vulnerability while being essentially masculine. Sexual Sixes also tend to be emotionally intense, like Eights and Fours. Part of this comes from anxiety about their ability to keep a strong, capable partner. Thus, Sexual Sixes try to cultivate their masculine or feminine attributes in order to find a good partner and, later, to remain appealing to this person. Often, they feel most comfortable relating to members of the opposite sex and may feel competitive with the same sex. They also tend to test their significant others to see if they are strong enough and to make sure that they are really committed to the relationship. When more stressed, Sexual Sixes can be emotionally volatile, with their feelings about people changing strongly and suddenly. They fall into suspiciousness about their partner and can be quite jealous, while at the same time feeling a strong need to "prove" their desirability.

Sixes with this subtype tend to act strong or seductive when insecure. They are much more likely to be counterphobic, especially the men. May seem like Eights, take risks, talk tough. Act powerful and in control at the times when they feel most frightened. Worry about looking weak, having their fears show. May act arrogant but aren't really. Some study martial arts or seek a way of life that makes them strong. Beauty is another focus; trying to seem attractive so as to contain fear, get approval, and distract others. May consciously hide behind a seductive mask. Unlike Threes, Sixes know they are hiding. Can act cool and patrician or be flirty. Some have a focus on aesthetics. This subtype often has a stronger connection to the vanity of 3.

Social Sixes look for security in the social sphere—that is, through their affiliations with different people and organizations. They are warm, engaging, and humorous, trying to send out the message that they are approachable and safe. They like to enlist people, getting others involved in projects or activities they see as worthwhile. Social Sixes frequently volunteer to work in groups and committees. They do not necessarily enjoy doing this, but they see it is necessary and so are willing to give their time and energy. They want to be regarded as regular guys or gals and may have difficulty taking stands that would be unpopular in their peer groups. They seek consensus before moving ahead with their agendas and they want to feel that others are "with them," backing them up. Although Social Sixes like being involved, they often become nervous about holding positions of responsibility because they are afraid that they will have to make decisions that others will not like, thus losing their support. When more insecure, their suspiciousness may lead them to form in-groups and out-groups in the workplace or in other social or societal areas.

it could explain why i feel so much like a 3 but do not act like a 3.

 

[skylights]

marmalade i watched your video (took me forever because my internet has been really glitchy and won't load full videos lately) - anyway you have a really ENFP appeal, lol... but you know what i mean? like you seem open, fun, positive, easy to like but still anchored in what you believe. i like you i do think we are similar in a lot of ways (well, mbti of course lol), though you seem more readily assertive/confronting? i think i am more hesitant, just overall. i also totally know what you mean about the lazy/driven split, haha! when you talked about liking old architecture, you really reminded me for a second of a friend of mine from college, i think she was INFP 4w3.

i like your ankle bracelet too

one thing i found really interesting was that i'm actually pretty much the opposite in terms of attention, i like random people on the street to notice me (even when i'm dressed down... i usually have a "look" i'm after - like i'll wear jeans and a big hoodie but with dark makeup or something, i rarely go out without at least a little makeup) - but i really don't like being on stage much, unless i'm just doing something passive like getting an award (love that) - i don't really like performing unless i'm actively engaging the audience, because if i'm not, i get caught up in my own head and freak myself out. i have been performing like that since i was young, and i learned how to mask my anxiety, but i always totally freak out inside. in the beginning i put up with it because i was supposed to (young kid taking music lessons as directed by parents, wanted to please parents and teacher), later put up with it i do love giving presentations, though, because i can (and do) engage openly with the audience. i don't think i behave in a way that draws attention openly, but i try to be pretty/elegant/fun/etc.

general question/funny reflection... when you guys do video conferencing with a friend... do you watch their screen, or yours? because i totally spend as much time making sure i look okay as paying attention to them


in all honesty, i shy away from typing myself as a 3 because i do not think i live up to the 3. i see healthy 3s and would like to be like that, and while i can be like them for my own reasons, i do not know if i could sustain being like that in the same way the 3s i know do - moving forward without as much introspection. which is not to say that they are not really brilliant, many of them are, they really are "shining stars", but i don't know how self-aware they are in the sense of knowing themselves deeply inside. i need to really think about things before diving in. i am less ambitious as a result, but i'm fairly self-aware. though it might just be the 3 population i'm comparing myself to.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I remember that on that thread you talked about your strong about your fear/anxiety issues: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/32951-e6-anxiety-6w7-7w6-6w5-2.html

it could explain why i feel so much like a 3 but do not act like a 3.

That's waht I wanted to explain.

Saslou is a 6w7 Sx/So herself, I'll put several other examples.

[youtube=6b9HCDdi5uQ]Saslou 6w7 Sx/So[/youtube]

6w7 Sx/So
Leeloo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV_eGm1qgGs
Jeanne d'Arc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM-guZPOpTQ&feature=related
Harry Burns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFWGOKuFyjk&feature=related
Erin Brokovich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TjEklyF7-E
Dennis Rodman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CrDbBBAbEY
Ann Coulter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZab9LWw3z0
Axl Rose http: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MhLlhXyMkg&feature=related
Mike tyson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1kzPttoh_c&feature=related
Kylie Minogue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2AYkODq8k8
Milla Jovovich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69jErGDmqU
Faith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toikP4JPue4
Eliza Dushku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR_fvY87DfY
Amy Winehouse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6kWDfPzqO4
Lady Gaga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puhv6V_grvo
Lindsay Lohan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnI1_YHETsE
Nikki Reed http: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEzIj4PQRi8&feature=fvsr
Andy Sixx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xGheGQ75kY
Taylor Momsen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ApwignvmQU&feature=player_embedded

Also, I don't know if you've seen that movie, but the actress play actually their own type.

Evie's character: 6w7 So/Sx
Nikki's character: 6w7 Sx/So

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Speed...do you have an example of a 7w6 sp/sx? Or 7w6 sx/sp? (I fear the 7 sx will be like the lead singer of Poison or something).

I don't want to hijack skylight's thread...but Marm has changed her e-type to 6w7...and skylights is still considering it (?). I so do not have a beautiful voice LOL.

I hav'nt figured out Brett Michael's type, but yes he could really be a Sexual 7w6. I know that Bono and Robert Plant are 7w6 Sx/So; Richard Branson as well.

Now for 7w6 Sp/Sx, I know a girl who is of that type, she's ENFJ. What could I say to you about her? Because I'm not sure to know any famous example of that type, but for the adjascent type, I have.

7w6 Sp/So
Steven Spielberg:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBH89Y0Xj7c
Elton John:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ4_NSc4Oh0

7w8 Sp/Sx
Linda Lee Bukowski:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHAW6cBVjro
Bruce Willis:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ej8k-kL1Wk

6w7 Sp/Sx
Calista Flockart:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcJM_Fe42Xg
Dido:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEvsMb9yZAY
Willow:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lBPH5BJnek*

7w6 Sx/Sp
Salvador Dali:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXT2E9Ccc8A
Zsa Zsa Gabor:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmZLHCKphi4
Ava Gardner:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2hy6fyheIA
Nina Hagen:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4QXi3APfoI

Also, I suspect Meher Baba was a 7w6 Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp, but I'm not sure:

[youtube=rt4xVI2odKw]Meher Baba (?)7w6 Sp/Sx-Sx/Sp(?)[/youtube]

 

[Thalassa]

Yep, I must be a six..."Unlike 3s, 6s know they are hiding." I'm also more self-aware and introspective like skylights said.

I've never believed in the illusion of "baby I'm a star." It's what I saw as seperating myself from my ex when I believed I was 4w3 and he an actual 3 (I'm absolutely certain he's a 3w2, now). I don't believe in narcissistic illusions. I see it as kind of hollow and sad. This is probably why 3 is more associated with ExxJ types, or Fe (my ex is ESFJ) because they will accomplish and be driven to have the outward tangible markings of success. I just don't have that.

 

[Chloe]

Yep, I must be a six..."Unlike 3s, 6s know they are hiding." I'm also more self-aware and introspective like skylights said.

Yes, introspective as any NFP! has not much to fo with MBTI

ANd what u said a few times about being a kid who would jump on tables and dance and attract attention is very three and very much not six

I've never believed in the illusion of "baby I'm a star." It's what I saw as seperating myself from my ex when I believed I was 4w3 and he an actual 3 (I'm absolutely certain he's a 3w2, now). I don't believe in narcissistic illusions. I see it as kind of hollow and sad. This is probably why 3 is more associated with ExxJ types, or Fe (my ex is ESFJ) because they will accomplish and be driven to have the outward tangible markings of success. I just don't have that.

You honestly believe all 3s are like that ???

Nina from Black Swan is excellent atypical example of 3!

1) 3s are, unlike 7s, not narcissistic without merit because they have esteem based on success - so they are pretty much self critical and self aware
2) Threes arent born to be competitive, unaware shallow beings - they are born to become the most authentic of all types (in enneagram gift is what makes most problems at the same time), so healthy 3 would be "I dont take this fake BS anymore! enough! I want to be authentic and havd my own goals and values. " and can very easily spot BS/masks in other people bc they have seen through themselves and their potential blind spots
Ex., i am 1000% i am a 3 and i kind of even despise fake tendencies in me to a point of doing everythinng to become authentic. I think i am more self critical than most non-3s in this aspect because i am awakened and ive seen through my own masks.
It goes with being NF and not tolerating inauthentic life
ESTJ 3 would tolerate it for much longer if not forever
In my own case there is also asoect that i had many huge personal tragedies that urged md in the last few yrs to search for myself and not take my own BS.

And last and most important ; comment on general direction of this thread : Enneagram is NOT DESCRIPTIVE system!!!!!!

 

[skylights]

sorry if you thought i was implying that, petra, it wasn't meant to say all 3s are like that.

i just don't understand, if i'm really a 3, then why do i have this pressing image of myself sitting down with a group of 3s and just not fitting in? why doesn't it feel right?


i feel like i would "belong" slightly better amongst a group of 6s, 7s, 4.

bah. ironically, i feel like i understand myself less than i did before encountering the enneagram.

 

[Thalassa]

sorry if you thought i was implying that, petra, it wasn't meant to say all 3s are like that.

i just don't understand, if i'm really a 3, then why do i have this pressing image of myself sitting down with a group of 3s and just not fitting in? why doesn't it feel right?


i feel like i would "belong" slightly better amongst a group of 6s, 7s, 4.

bah. ironically, i feel like i understand myself less than i did before encountering the enneagram.

3 doesn't "feel" right to me either, and I always test as 4 or 6.

The way I was convinced for a little while is that 3 disintegrates at 9 and integrates at 6.

 

[skylights]

hey marm want to make our own type? we can be 10s

aesthetic image-conscious occasionally ballsy introspectives.

oh and speed, i forgot to mention, the astrology info i had came from here: http://alabe.com/freechart/
it's nice, you plug in your info and it spits out a natal chart and corresponding interpretations.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Okay, well, I jotted down some phrases while listening to the video. Here's my impressions (if it helps):

Question 2 response:
fear being meaningless
no meaning in the grand scheme
not have made any meaning in own life
have a reason to exist
worst to just exist, make meaning in your own life
life is big dance - worst thing is not participating
dancing in the wrong way
afraid of not doing the right pattern, something that really represents who I am
have a hard time figuring out who I am/should be

This answer struck me as 3 the most. Meaningless ---> create significance ----> find a sense importance (not necessarily in yourself, but in the world) -----> drive to succeed / make an impact ------> success/status/achievement. I wish more profiles would emphasize the former parts of that link, because I think those are the healthier 3s. The unhealthy 3s are the ones stuck on shallow status, but it stems from needing significance in life.

4s would talk more about fear of being ordinary, losing autonomy, not being able to express themselves in a unique way, etc. Although there is some 4-ish sounding stuff at the end, as far as "something that really represents who I am". If you were a 4, I'd expect talk like that to dominate your answers though....

There is a touch of 7, possibly.....the participation part. 7s are about experience & exploration in life, and they seek to give life meaning in a sense by seeking that out. However, for them, its an end unto itself, but it sounds like to me you want some kind of results, to make some kind of a difference.

Question 1 response:
feel like someone has brought things out of balance
function threads, way Fi was demonstrated as compared to Fe
felt unfair, harmful, not represented correctly
if people get false idea that Fi has no warmth, negative consequences too look at people/assume, bring things into balance

not represented correctly, think that of you or other people like you
fight fire with fire, panic, need to speak up
backed into noble corner

sense of universal balance being thrown off
idea that everything deserves love & respect & identity
needs to be defended

The focus on balance struck me as 9 in a way - they have a strong pull to maintain/create harmony & fairness.

However, it could be a 3 combating negative press, so to speak. 3s can be very aware of their reputation, and fear a bad one, and especially if they have a 4 wing, fear an inaccurate one. 4s can care less about negative reps, however, as long as they are accurate (and may even secretly like being misunderstood at times).

I'm not hearing much 6 in this way......I suppose it doesn't help that much because they were your considerations anyway, but I'd go with 3w4 or 7w6 as most likely.

Yes, introspective as any NFP! has not much to fo with MBTI

ANd what u said a few times about being a kid who would jump on tables and dance and attract attention is very three and very much not six


You honestly believe all 3s are like that ???

Nina from Black Swan is excellent atypical example of 3!

1) 3s are, unlike 7s, not narcissistic without merit because they have esteem based on success - so they are pretty much self critical and self aware
2) Threes arent born to be competitive, unaware shallow beings - they are born to become the most authentic of all types (in enneagram gift is what makes most problems at the same time), so healthy 3 would be "I dont take this fake BS anymore! enough! I want to be authentic and havd my own goals and values. " and can very easily spot BS/masks in other people bc they have seen through themselves and their potential blind spots
Ex., i am 1000% i am a 3 and i kind of even despise fake tendencies in me to a point of doing everythinng to become authentic. I think i am more self critical than most non-3s in this aspect because i am awakened and ive seen through my own masks.
It goes with being NF and not tolerating inauthentic life
ESTJ 3 would tolerate it for much longer if not forever
In my own case there is also aspect that i had many huge personal tragedies that urged md in the last few yrs to search for myself and not take my own BS.

And last and most important ; comment on general direction of this thread : Enneagram is NOT DESCRIPTIVE system!!!!!!

Great points about 3s. I definitely agree.
And so I don't sound contradictory, don't confuse my unaware of deeply rooted, basic motivations with unaware of self in general.

i just don't understand, if i'm really a 3, then why do i have this pressing image of myself sitting down with a group of 3s and just not fitting in? why doesn't it feel right?

That's called a 4 wing