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[Type 4] An INTJ Enneagram 4...how does it looks like?

Uytuun

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nnnn
INTJ type 4's are very rare. They are emotional, but the emotions run under the surface... it's not obvious. You might notice that they wear a unique style of clothing that is them, but very functional. When it comes to their work, they will go out of their way to make sure it is original to their style, and keep themselves from being in a specific niche. They are very creative in solving problems, and want to make sure it is done their way, with their own flair. They will tend to romanticize intellectual pursuits and ideas, and if they have artistic abilities, will produce work that is reflective of romanticism, yearning, but the romanticism goes through a brain filter. You will notice that an INTJ 4 will have an air of refinement and elegance to them, very sophisticated, yet they are soft-spoken. While they are confident on what they know, don't know, and their abilities, they might be hard on themselves, especially when they don't achieve the desired outcome of their goals. INTJ 4's will never, or rarely, compromise who they are and what they create just to make it more popular. They want to adhere to their inner values. INTJ 4's are very unassuming and may have a difficult time promoting their vision. They feel much more comfortable being in the background. You might notice an INTJ 4 will have a wannabe rebellious streak, and their form of rebellion will be an intellectual/artistic adventure. They might read literature that contains individualistic themes, presents a cynical view of authority, and will tend to like art that varies from the traditional to things that have an almost dark quality to it. They might like listening to music that is a bit intense, but also like music that is slow and heavy, and the delicate and beautiful. They are difficult to please when it comes to artistic and musical tastes, and may not like what is trendy, they avoid trends at all costs. INTJ 4's are also in their own worlds... they may find books, music, and art better than the chaotic/noisy world around them.

Never argue with an INTJ 4 though... be prepared for them to get a bit defensive, and temperamental.

Interesting, I relate a lot to the style component (in contrast with other INTJs IME) and the other bolded aspects...I could see myself with a rather strong 4 wing (5w4), though I doubt I'm a 4...I'm strongly involved with the arts through my interest in research, but I don't have such a strong personal/subjective involvement with them, with the object of my research.

I do think I may know an INTJ 4 (an artist)...we resonate.
 

euro4

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Jun 21, 2014
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1
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
I just joined this site as I was interested in this particular thread. I am 4w5 sx/sp and a very clear INTJ.
I've seen here and there that some people claim that INTJ cannot be 4 ... and I know it can be confusing, but it is possible as I am very clearly 4 (although tests tend to place me as a 5, but that might be the INTJ way of functionning).

I've seen a quotation that states
"INTJ at Enneagram 4
The elite loner who thinks everyone else is shallow and unsophisticated."

I am a bit desperate because I am actually an elite loner, but what I am looking for is an environment of intelligent, generous, kind, witty and cultivated people, which would be happiness to me.
I am kind of withdrawing from the world as I cannot change unefiicient and corrupt behaviours in the institution (and my INTJ way to function detests such mediocre corruption) and my 4w5 nature makes me a loner anyway.

So, any enneatype 4 INTJ that has managed to avoid being an "elitist loner"? (I hope that it is an elitist in good elit company, rather than a gregarious anti-elitist)
 

Bnova

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Feb 8, 2015
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65
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IXTX
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4
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sp
Same here,looking for answers ,I need to find my balance again,in this world where we are few in number and with such few resources to obtain knowledge about our rare and humble selves we ofcourse as truth seekers seek the truth of ourselves in a world where our rarity may come as an absolute weakness towards finding true answers about ourselves,all we need is clear path we can grasp knowledge of to reach a state wherein we can find the possible answers for ourselves
 

Rambling

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Jun 6, 2014
Messages
401
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Same here,looking for answers ,I need to find my balance again,in this world where we are few in number and with such few resources to obtain knowledge about our rare and humble selves we ofcourse as truth seekers seek the truth of ourselves in a world where our rarity may come as an absolute weakness towards finding true answers about ourselves,all we need is clear path we can grasp knowledge of to reach a state wherein we can find the possible answers for ourselves

I'm a 5w6 4w3 and 8w9 I think...certainly in the Heart area I think I'm a 4, after a fair amount of studying. i read that a four often alternates between feeling like a three and feeling like a five when growing up, and that is certainly true of me.
 

small.wonder

So she did.
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sx/so
Well, crap. After reading this thread, I'm more sure than ever that I am INxJ.

To those who recently posted (specifically [MENTION=22043]euro4[/MENTION]), I have avoided (or perhaps recovered from) being an "elite loaner". In my opinion, it requires deep brokenness and emotional unhealth, followed by actually reaching out to safe people and being vulnerable. It's been six years since my Crash + Burn, and I can say I actually have a group of close friends who know me well, and vice versa. Sometimes I have to pinch myself, and thank God for his faithfulness. Most people who don't know me well still think I'm a snob, or silently arrogant, or what have you, but I'm not-- I've grown to the point of realizing all people are broken and valuable, even the popular, vapid and status-concious ones. ;) I think that started with being open to hearing people's stories, and that started with telling my own.

But yeah, becoming healthy (or devoted to health consciousness, as I'd rather put it) isn't easy and usually requires pain and discomfort. Studying the Enneagram helps, joining a Smallgroup at my church helped me (but I'm sure therapy would be good too).
 

Kullervo

Permabanned
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May 15, 2014
Messages
3,298
MBTI Type
N/A
It is a contradiction.

4 is an Enneatype that creates a personality who literally bathes in emotions, and has a love/hate relationship with them. A 4 is acutely aware of his emotional state and that necessitates a personality that favours Feeling.

While any Enneatype combination is theoretically possible, it's my view that if you type as a 4 and are an INTJ, you need to consider a few things: (a) are you depressed (depressed 6s and 9s often mistype as 4s), and (b) if not, are you sure that you are not an ISFP (FiSeNiTe), or even an INFJ (NiFeTiSe)?
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
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sx/so
I've been typed this way before by others. Tried to make sense of it, but it ultimately didn't work.
 

Gizmo

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Apr 26, 2015
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Interesting, I relate a lot to the style component (in contrast with other INTJs IME) and the other bolded aspects...I could see myself with a rather strong 4 wing (5w4), though I doubt I'm a 4...I'm strongly involved with the arts through my interest in research, but I don't have such a strong personal/subjective involvement with them, with the object of my research.

I do think I may know an INTJ 4 (an artist)...we resonate.

I undoubtedly test INTJ, 4 and this is a very well defined description of my personal conduct... Thank you, as it has been very difficult to find any info on this conjointly. For a while I actually proclaimed 4w5, but I actually tested a 4 flat.

I work 3 jobs, and they greatly differ being Road Work, Stripping, Uhaul dealing, and other various odds and ends. Writing is my passion, and dancing is my art. When I work I almost always have a head phone in, and I quite literally dance through the work day, and somehow still seem to be quite perfectionistic about the quality of my work. I've always been known for my unique sense of fashion, and I was recently described by a peer as aesthete. So from what I can tell you nailed it. Another thing I have noticed to be oddly different from most INTJs I've read about, is that I have an overwhelming need to be outside in fresh air, like its a mental neccesity. Bring in doors for to long gives me a sense of cabin fever, and that is typically when my behavior patterns become less than healthy, and when that happens I usually have to ride my bike, or drive the open rode to clear my head, and is typically done with great intensity.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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INTJ
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953
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sp/so
As an INTJ Enneagram 9, I believe that any MBTI type can be of any Enneagram type. Of course there are correlations, but the correlations are of personality traits, not intrinsic traits. Yet I am told by people who are very certain that there is no way an INTJ could be a type 9, so either the Enneagram or the MBTI type is wrong.

MBTI and Jungian functions describe, more or less, "how you think". Enneagram instead describes "how you cope". It is not at all impossible for an INTJ to have type 4 coping mechanisms. It all makes sense, as long as you're consistent and know what to look for in terms of type. It's entirely possible, I believe, for an INTJ to have a very intuitive and analytical mind, yet be preoccupied with one's own personal identity and finding a soul mate out there in the world.

The human mind is very plastic, very flexible. Typologies are good at classifying common patterns, but typology is not causality. You are your type because your patterns fit within the typology. Typology does not make you exhibit those patterns. :)
 

Rambling

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As an INTJ Enneagram 9, I believe that any MBTI type can be of any Enneagram type. Of course there are correlations, but the correlations are of personality traits, not intrinsic traits. Yet I am told by people who are very certain that there is no way an INTJ could be a type 9, so either the Enneagram or the MBTI type is wrong.

MBTI and Jungian functions describe, more or less, "how you think". Enneagram instead describes "how you cope". It is not at all impossible for an INTJ to have type 4 coping mechanisms. It all makes sense, as long as you're consistent and know what to look for in terms of type. It's entirely possible, I believe, for an INTJ to have a very intuitive and analytical mind, yet be preoccupied with one's own personal identity and finding a soul mate out there in the world.

The human mind is very plastic, very flexible. Typologies are good at classifying common patterns, but typology is not causality. You are your type because your patterns fit within the typology. Typology does not make you exhibit those patterns. :)

Enneagram describes typical reactions to the breaking of the ego: so, depending on the experiences they have had a person could be any type of the enneagram.
 

Cloud of Thunder

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I undoubtedly test INTJ, 4 and this is a very well defined description of my personal conduct... Thank you, as it has been very difficult to find any info on this conjointly. For a while I actually proclaimed 4w5, but I actually tested a 4 flat.

I work 3 jobs, and they greatly differ being Road Work, Stripping, Uhaul dealing, and other various odds and ends. Writing is my passion, and dancing is my art. When I work I almost always have a head phone in, and I quite literally dance through the work day, and somehow still seem to be quite perfectionistic about the quality of my work. I've always been known for my unique sense of fashion, and I was recently described by a peer as aesthete. So from what I can tell you nailed it. Another thing I have noticed to be oddly different from most INTJs I've read about, is that I have an overwhelming need to be outside in fresh air, like its a mental neccesity. Bring in doors for to long gives me a sense of cabin fever, and that is typically when my behavior patterns become less than healthy, and when that happens I usually have to ride my bike, or drive the open rode to clear my head, and is typically done with great intensity.
Are you referring to the "Stripping" I think you're referring to?
 

Gizmo

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Q: what does an INTJ 4 look like?
A: a vampire =P

Me

- - - Updated - - -

4w5 INTJ here to try and help by shedding some light on understanding the relationship with Te and Fi

Te and Fi, or Te vs. Fi? There is a little trick I found to understanding how the two functions "live together." Te acts like Fi's big brother. Big brother Te can be loving and protective of little brother Fi, or Te can be a bully, and in extreme cases even manipulative to Little brother Fi. Brothers typically bond when they can learn to work together. My country boy roots probably has something to do with me being a 4w5 INTJ... Fishing, Bike riding, hiking, building huts, and also anything really anything representing freedom in nature that is away from society and its noise is a great way for brothers to bond, and grow stronger as a result. If big brother Te acts like little brother Fi is annoying, in the way, or bad for his image thus pushing little brother Fi out of the way and ignoring him... Little Brother Fi is going to feel shamed, and upset. Big Brother Te won't want to deal with this. An adult force A.K.A. maturity has to step in and deal with this conflict, and say Hey! If you two are going to live together... You're going to have to learn to get along. Big brother Te can't lock himself away in his room to avoid the conflict with little brother Fi. They have to go outside and play together... No one else... Just Big brother Te, and Little brother Fi.

This could look like 5w4, but please note that I wrote based on the fact I was the youngest sibling growing up.
 

Gizmo

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There's a constant bias on typology to systematically type vampires as 4. Because of Draculla, or as a more general rule, because of all the emo shit around the vampire myth.

Of course, it is a wrong way to type. Edward Cullen, for example, is not a 4w5 Sx/Sp but a 3w2 Sp/Sx.

And Richard Nixon is not a 4 and not Sexual in any way. He's a 6w5 So/Sp, not a 4w3 Sx/So. This is just stupid.

Are you referring to the "Stripping" I think you're referring to?

More than likely
 

Haven

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Apr 26, 2011
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[MENTION=24874]Gizmo[/MENTION] seems more like 1w9 imo, they're big on nature and maturity
 

Gizmo

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No. Just no. It actually irritates me when people try to retype people... As if I'm totally incompetent of not knowing who, what, and how, and in many cases why I am. Especially when not enough evidence is supported to have any sort of basis for your theory. I've put a great amount of my life into self awareness, and I've put in significant amount of research into finding and understanding standing these types in such a way, only for people like you to incompetently think they are able to change any aspects of such analysis.
 

Haven

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It's just the reasons you chose to defend why you're a 4 sound like the reasons someone would be 1w9. I don't know you or your type, i only read that paragraph.
 

Gizmo

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It's just the reasons you chose to defend why you're a 4 sound like the reasons someone would be 1w9. I don't know you or your type, i only read that paragraph.

The two types are quite different, but can appear similar in attitude, and taste for aesthetics.
 

Gizmo

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I actually just got into studying my type as INTJ in conjunction with the enneagram. The amount of people claiming to be 4w5 INTJs is ridiculous. Apparently this is rare, and yet they flood the forums with total horse shit. One key think I pick up is that the majority of these people question whether or not they have mistyped...

#1 most of them are more than likely INFPs, or INTPs, and maybe even an INFJ on a rare instance.

#2 they don't typically think to factor in their behaviors and motivations according to their known states of mental health. As a result they later on decide that 1w9, what ever the 8s are, and and very commonly get mixed up with 5w4.

#3 they simply have way to much questioning doubt as to who or what they are... Type 4's are all about self identity, and truly getting to know themselves more than any other type. This is why the are called the individualist.

If you're truly an INTJ type 4w5... You will know. We are extremely emotionally developed INTJs. Some 4w5 INTJs will have better control of their emotions than others resulting from subjective experience, level of maturity, and state of health.

4w5 INTJs will still be just as Cold, analytical, reserved, mysterious, and etc just like any INTJ. A big tell tale sign is that 4w5 INTJs will be more drawn to artistic and creative studies compared to sciences, and things INTJs are typically known for. They will still be into those things, but not into as much depth as other types of INTJs. A 4w5 INTJ is still going to be elusive, and want to avoid the spot light, but due to their emotionally developed side... They will blend in with flare, as they tend to put their own little artistic yet efficient touches to absolutely anything they can get there hands on, because there is a strong desire deep within for self expression... Due to Fi this is going to find very unique out of the box ways to sort of bleed out. In this way Te and Fi will work together and sorta comprise so that neither "overpowers" the other. The last thing is that 4w5s are Intensely Romantic at their core, and this will have been the case every since childhood recall. 4w5s have this unique way of bridging the gap between logic and emotion, which is how they present such a strong intellect for moral Intelligence... Often this is where 4w5 INTJs will hold their identity, as Identity is everything to them... If you're a 4w5 INTJ... You will know... If you're not sure... You're a different type... Capeesh?
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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sp/so
Don't forget that each type is kind of ironic: their supposed "strength" is their weakness. As a type 9, my strength is that I'm emotionally balanced and peaceful ... my weakness is that, um, no, I'm just good at THINKING that I'm that balanced and at peace. For type 4s, they THINK that they have a really deep self-knowledge, when in reality what they do is keep trying on different "masks" (different identities, different selves) as they try to figure out who they "really" are. In the 9's case, the mature 9s learn real techniques for finding balance and peace, which involve actually dealing with the world in a more direct way, as opposed to psychologically avoiding problems. In the 4's case, the mature 4s learn that none of those masks/identities/selves is their true self, that actually going out and doing things and being present in the world (as opposed to withdrawing and introspecting) is how they learn who they really are.
 

Gizmo

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An unhealthy 4 will withdraw and introspect to quite an extreme, as I did through depression, but like you said is a mature 4 is what I call a healthy 4 and they very much want to be out in the world. It seems contradictory that "their supposed strength is their weakness." But that's only in theory, as it can only be assumed that a tertiary function is by default a weakness. However INTJ 4w5s are very much about their "inner world", and find ways to implement in the outside world. Enneagram is more about behaviors and what motivates you, as your MBTI is more about how you're brain cognitively functions and effects your personality.
 
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