[Type 4] Type 4s and relationship with parents/family

[CuriousFeeling]

General question I've got... do all type 4's experience issues with relationships with their parents/family? Could a type 4's individualism/imagination stem from another source other than parental issues, and more from their birth order (i.e. growing up as an only child, establishing the fact that they are different from most families that have more than 1 child, and having to keep themselves entertained)? I have a theory that a type 4 in a normal family life, might have been encouraged to be an individual, despite the fact that their family's core values might have been different from those that had to keep up with the latest trends, yet when they enter the real world, they feel misunderstood by those that don't share those values and don't have the same level of imagination or emotional sensitivity as they do. They yearn to have a sense of true family in the social sense... to find their core group of friends that they connect with. This type 4 might find it difficult to have a close connection with others because they are fiercely independent and true to their values, and do not make compromises. They are moody and temperamental if something doesn't work out to their ideals. They might find it better to do independent work, rather than do group work in school. If there is a death in this type of type 4's family, this would definitely set forth the traditional type 4 yearning. They will yearn for someone to fill the void for the person that is missing in their life.

My theory could be off, but I'd like to see what you guys think. I hypothesize that type 4 children might experience parental strain, but if they grow up in a loving environment that encourages their individualism, they might also have type 4 traits as well.

Just curious.

 

[Southern Kross]

^ I would agree with that.

I'm a 4 and don't have family issues at all - and I was always confused by that element of the e4 description. My family have been pretty understanding and accepting of me despite how different I am from them. All of the judging and undemining of my character has been by others.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

^ I would agree with that.

I'm a 4 and don't have family issues at all - and I was always confused by that element of the e4 description. My family have been pretty understanding and accepting of me despite how different I am from them. All of the judging and undemining of my character has been by others.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who is a bit confused about that element too. It could be something that can cause classic type 4 yearning, but I think there are a lot more factors that can influence the type 4's feelings of being out of place. I think that type 4's generally yearn for a place that they belong in... regardless of family issues. It can be related to how they were treated in a social environment, or if they have ideas/values that aren't widely shared by others, unusual amount of imagination, and high emotional sensitivity that makes them stand out. The thing is, as a type 4, it is so important to make sure that they find their niche, especially so then they can be creative, and have their imaginations/ feelings be of value to someone else. This can be in a career or in a social world. I think that healthy type 4's come from families that encourage them to be themselves, no matter what anyone else says, and have both parents play an active role in their life. Because of this, the type 4 in this environment can develop a positive relationship with their family. Raising a type 4 can be a challenge because they can be moody and temperamental, especially if the type 4 perceives the slightest remark to be aimed negatively at them. Emotions run strong for type 4s. Yearning can be caused by how the type 4 was raised but it is caused by other things too.

 

[Epiphany]

I had a good relationship with my parents, but I was raised as an only child in a religiously conservative environment. My feelings of isolation came mostly from school/peer groups.

 

[JocktheMotie]

4s are characterized by a sense of abandonment at times when they're children, but it's perfectly possible to have a regular childhood and either a) interpret something as abandonment or b) just envision that one needs to be special and unique in order to secure affection. I'm a 5, but I never really felt like I needed to detach and withdraw as defense from my family so much, it was just my natural manner of being. I expect the same is true of you, and probably all types who have had generally pleasant childhoods.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

I had a good relationship with my parents, but I was raised as an only child too in a religiously conservative environment. My feelings of isolation came mostly from school/peer groups.

This sounds somewhat familiar, minus the religiously conservative part.

4s are characterized by a sense of abandonment at times when they're children, but it's perfectly possible to have a regular childhood and either a) interpret something as abandonment or b) just envision that one needs to be special and unique in order to secure affection. I'm a 5, but I never really felt like I needed to detach and withdraw as defense from my family so much, it was just my natural manner of being. I expect the same is true of you, and probably all types who have had generally pleasant childhoods.

I remember as a kid, I hated the thought of my parents going away on a trip without me. I remember when my dad went on his first business trip, I was so sad! I knew he'd be coming back, but I missed him a lot... just the fact he wasn't there at home upset me. But since day one, I've been very sensitive and imaginative. Envisioning one's needs to be special and unique and deserving of affection... um... yeah, guilty as charged. This was especially the case when it came to ideas and values, or stuff I liked a lot.

I'm just thankful that I've got parents that have been supportive, and have encouraged me to think through my feelings, especially when things got tough. I wish that other type 4s that went through hardships in their family could have had this experience.

 

[Ratsimoan]

Well, I have to say all my issues stem from my family. So I fit the four description !

 

[Ginkgo]

When I was younger, I felt an almost traumatic level of anxiety when my parents were gone. Being disconnected from them sent a rash of tragic thoughts through my mind, and I often latched on to other outlets like TV, books, and video games to fulfill a sense of connection. I also frequently worried about experiencing a holocaust and being the sole survivor. My worst fear was losing touch with humanity, because without that feedback, I had no sense of identity or purpose.

Later on, that fear shifted from an image of literal abandonment to an image of miscommunication. In my early to late teens, I was naive and "innocent". I had been raised in a fairly sheltered and conservative environment, and defending those conservative ideas was a matter of self-preservation and discipline. However, as time drew on, I found myself questioning old ideas, stuck in the purgatory between one culture and another. The fact that I strove to be unique put me at odds with friends and family, which led to me being very unsure of myself.

To be frank, my mother often lived vicariously through me. While she saw me as sort of an attachment, my dad didn't want my future to impose on his financial well-being. Their vision for me was narrowed down to a sliver with little breathing room, and I withdrew once again into the same pastimes I had during early childhood. The dream of who I wanted to be was shot down and eventually engulfed by my own addictions.

I'm in college now, still living at home, but unsure of who I am and what to do with my life.

 

[Adasta]

When I was younger, I felt an almost traumatic level of anxiety when my parents were gone. Being disconnected from them sent a rash of tragic thoughts through my mind, and I often latched on to other outlets like TV, books, and video games to fulfill a sense of connection. I also frequently worried about experiencing a holocaust and being the sole survivor. My worst fear was losing touch with humanity, because without that feedback, I had no sense of identity or purpose.

I can really relate to this.

 

[Domino]

I'm a four and grew up in a rocky household. I think my "abandonment" issues were more than regular children because there were very real and scary things going on. I'm also an identical twin, and my type 7 ENFP sister was key for me not ever feeling truly alone or misunderstood. My father is also a four.

 

[Auto/Virtuosi=L.A.P.]

I was always distant emotionally from dad. Distanced from mom in teenage years. Childhood for me was fine until about 10. I'm not very emotionally invested in anyone. I do carry a sense of abandonment. Or a sense of being written off or underestimated by my neutral family. One day I dug a hole and my family either thought I'd grow out of it or find god. HA! Maybe it's all because they all prefer intuition and couldn't understand one of their own who didn't. They think I'm strange

 

[HighwayChild]

When I was younger, I felt an almost traumatic level of anxiety when my parents were gone. Being disconnected from them sent a rash of tragic thoughts through my mind, and I often latched on to other outlets like TV, books, and video games to fulfill a sense of connection. I also frequently worried about experiencing a holocaust and being the sole survivor. My worst fear was losing touch with humanity, because without that feedback, I had no sense of identity or purpose.

Later on, that fear shifted from an image of literal abandonment to an image of miscommunication. In my early to late teens, I was naive and "innocent". I had been raised in a fairly sheltered and conservative environment, and defending those conservative ideas was a matter of self-preservation and discipline. However, as time drew on, I found myself questioning old ideas, stuck in the purgatory between one culture and another. The fact that I strove to be unique put me at odds with friends and family, which led to me being very unsure of myself.

All of that sounds very close to what I went through, and still do although I'm more content about it these days, especially the second paragraph.

 

[HighwayChild]

I don't know if any of you care, but maybe some can relate....

My relationship with my parents morphed over the years growing up, I can only assume that everyone's does. I went from wanting them at my side to pushing them away for whatever reason.
I was always shy as a kid, super shy, to the point where my parents were my world, and my safety. Maybe it's the abandonment issue that 4s seem to typical associate with. I remember when I was very young, between K and 2nd grade or so, I would cry if both my parents or a babysitter wouldn't pick me up from school on time. Or if I just didn't see them waiting in the parking lot or wherever the school made parents pick their children up. Would panic if I just merely overlooked them. I would think I was lost in this strange world without anyone to guide me. It sounds pretty fucking sad actually, and it was only the start of much more sadness. Social anxiety and depression set in and took me over. Most likely self projected sadness brought on from living in my own head and realizing that reality was nowhere near as awesome as what my imagination could bring about.

Over the years, life would be happy, until about puberty when I truly felt alone in the world for whatever reasons and was just miserable and sad all the time. I had my friends, I had a family that loved me, I would know when a girl liked me.. all of that.. and still felt alone and like I didn't even belong with human beings in general.
My dad and I had nothing in common. I felt he was too severe on me and too much about forcing his dicipline and opinions and providing instead of being someone who understood me. I am not prone to reacting with anger and my dad was and I just looked at him as if he were a little child throwing a tantrum. My brother and I both were always walking on eggshells. My mom was an outlet, someone I could talk to when down, but she understood less than my dad did. She has a heart of gold but when she doesn't understand, she's not interested at all. After awhile, I felt alone in my own home, even from my siblings, and shut myself in my room for years. This only caused more tension because I'm sure they looked at it like I hated them. Maybe I did. Still trying to figure shit out, or forget about it at least. For years, I blamed my depression on my dad, but am starting to realize that I have no one to blame but myself. More of the optimistic memories are pushing their way back to the front of my mind and I feel more grateful of what they had to go through to take care of us at such an early age in their lives. (both 18 when I was born and then had my bro and sis before they were 22).
Eventually I hated my dad and felt that my mom didn't care about anything other than herself and moved out. we all spoke and stuff, not like we had crazy animosity over certain things. It was just that we weren't that close. We didn't know each other. This lasted for years. I started communicating with them more kind of recently. My dad quit smoking and started taking zoloft. Coupled with age, it must have helped because he is all happy go lucky now, no crazy bi-polar-ish outbursts of frustration about silly shit. My mom and I got to understand each other as adults and we seem fine. Fucking happy ending right? Not really, although the relationship is a little better as we are all adults, the whole 4-ness in me still has me confused and jaded when it comes to the reality of life.

Basically we just never knew each other and what we did know, we didn't like. I wonder if my dad wanted me to be his good little soldier but was disappointed because I had a mind of my own from a very early age. A mind of my own so far out there that not many other people I met growing up even could relate.
I still get self conscious about my odd nature, even around family, but kind of wouldn't want it any other way... being odd that is. I sometimes wonder that if I were truly able to act like myself in this world that I'd be considered fucking mad. Am already told by many that I'm "out there", which I can't help but see as a huge compliment.
blah blah blah I'm finished.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Well, I have to say all my issues stem from my family. So I fit the four description !

yeah.... same here. although, now that i'm older, i no longer feel this way. but it took a long time to establish this outlook. for a long time, however, i blamed them for all my problems. but it really only took one accepting comment from my parents to turn how i felt about them all around. and all my neurosis, paranoia, anger, anxiety, etc. turned right around and started fixing itself. i don't even know if i'm still considered a four anymore. do enneagram's change? because i feel like i changed and i no longer face issues of alienation or identity crises. ...at least... i don't think i do.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I don't know if any of you care, but maybe some can relate....

My relationship with my parents morphed over the years growing up, I can only assume that everyone's does. I went from wanting them at my side to pushing them away for whatever reason.
I was always shy as a kid, super shy, to the point where my parents were my world, and my safety. Maybe it's the abandonment issue that 4s seem to typical associate with. I remember when I was very young, between K and 2nd grade or so, I would cry if both my parents or a babysitter wouldn't pick me up from school on time. Or if I just didn't see them waiting in the parking lot or wherever the school made parents pick their children up. Would panic if I just merely overlooked them. I would think I was lost in this strange world without anyone to guide me. It sounds pretty fucking sad actually, and it was only the start of much more sadness. Social anxiety and depression set in and took me over. Most likely self projected sadness brought on from living in my own head and realizing that reality was nowhere near as awesome as what my imagination could bring about.

Over the years, life would be happy, until about puberty when I truly felt alone in the world for whatever reasons and was just miserable and sad all the time. I had my friends, I had a family that loved me, I would know when a girl liked me.. all of that.. and still felt alone and like I didn't even belong with human beings in general.
My dad and I had nothing in common. I felt he was too severe on me and too much about forcing his dicipline and opinions and providing instead of being someone who understood me. I am not prone to reacting with anger and my dad was and I just looked at him as if he were a little child throwing a tantrum. My brother and I both were always walking on eggshells. My mom was an outlet, someone I could talk to when down, but she understood less than my dad did. She has a heart of gold but when she doesn't understand, she's not interested at all. After awhile, I felt alone in my own home, even from my siblings, and shut myself in my room for years. This only caused more tension because I'm sure they looked at it like I hated them. Maybe I did. Still trying to figure shit out, or forget about it at least. For years, I blamed my depression on my dad, but am starting to realize that I have no one to blame but myself. More of the optimistic memories are pushing their way back to the front of my mind and I feel more grateful of what they had to go through to take care of us at such an early age in their lives. (both 18 when I was born and then had my bro and sis before they were 22).
Eventually I hated my dad and felt that my mom didn't care about anything other than herself and moved out. we all spoke and stuff, not like we had crazy animosity over certain things. It was just that we weren't that close. We didn't know each other. This lasted for years. I started communicating with them more kind of recently. My dad quit smoking and started taking zoloft. Coupled with age, it must have helped because he is all happy go lucky now, no crazy bi-polar-ish outbursts of frustration about silly shit. My mom and I got to understand each other as adults and we seem fine. Fucking happy ending right? Not really, although the relationship is a little better as we are all adults, the whole 4-ness in me still has me confused and jaded when it comes to the reality of life.

Basically we just never knew each other and what we did know, we didn't like. I wonder if my dad wanted me to be his good little soldier but was disappointed because I had a mind of my own from a very early age. A mind of my own so far out there that not many other people I met growing up even could relate.
I still get self conscious about my odd nature, even around family, but kind of wouldn't want it any other way... being odd that is. I sometimes wonder that if I were truly able to act like myself in this world that I'd be considered fucking mad. Am already told by many that I'm "out there", which I can't help but see as a huge compliment.
blah blah blah I'm finished.

the stuff i highlighted is similar to my own experience. and honestly, reminds me of another 4 i know in real life. the "abandonment" feeling can come from harsh parents where misunderstandings abound, i think. i was always a bit quieter in nature, to the point people thought i was mute when i was very young. and so, same for me, my family was my only world. well... my family and my own mind. i'm one of those rare ISFP 4's, i suppose. and so in some ways, lean towards INFP tendencies. but anyways, my dad and my sister whom took after him, were loud and angry folk. something i frowned upon. and as i got older, reacted rebelliously towards. lashing out and calling them grown-up children. it was in my teen and early twenties that i got into many fights with my family, and felt often like the black sheep. not to mention, my views, ideals, etc. were completely different from them and they often couldn't understand where i was coming from. so i withdrew my views and opinions from them and refused to be my complete self around them. but becoming older, my father one day said to me in an endearing way and not talking down to me, "you've always been the weird one." but like i said, he said it with an endearing tone. an accepting tone. and he gave me a hug. and after that, my confidence around them rose and i was able to unite self with self and become whole and feel good. i finally realized, they'll accept me for me.

sorry, i went on a tangent about myself.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I don't know if any of you care, but maybe some can relate....

My relationship with my parents morphed over the years growing up, I can only assume that everyone's does. I went from wanting them at my side to pushing them away for whatever reason.
I was always shy as a kid, super shy, to the point where my parents were my world, and my safety. Maybe it's the abandonment issue that 4s seem to typical associate with. I remember when I was very young, between K and 2nd grade or so, I would cry if both my parents or a babysitter wouldn't pick me up from school on time. Or if I just didn't see them waiting in the parking lot or wherever the school made parents pick their children up. Would panic if I just merely overlooked them. I would think I was lost in this strange world without anyone to guide me. It sounds pretty fucking sad actually, and it was only the start of much more sadness. Social anxiety and depression set in and took me over. Most likely self projected sadness brought on from living in my own head and realizing that reality was nowhere near as awesome as what my imagination could bring about.

Over the years, life would be happy, until about puberty when I truly felt alone in the world for whatever reasons and was just miserable and sad all the time. I had my friends, I had a family that loved me, I would know when a girl liked me.. all of that.. and still felt alone and like I didn't even belong with human beings in general.
My dad and I had nothing in common. I felt he was too severe on me and too much about forcing his dicipline and opinions and providing instead of being someone who understood me. I am not prone to reacting with anger and my dad was and I just looked at him as if he were a little child throwing a tantrum. My brother and I both were always walking on eggshells. My mom was an outlet, someone I could talk to when down, but she understood less than my dad did. She has a heart of gold but when she doesn't understand, she's not interested at all. After awhile, I felt alone in my own home, even from my siblings, and shut myself in my room for years. This only caused more tension because I'm sure they looked at it like I hated them. Maybe I did. Still trying to figure shit out, or forget about it at least. For years, I blamed my depression on my dad, but am starting to realize that I have no one to blame but myself. More of the optimistic memories are pushing their way back to the front of my mind and I feel more grateful of what they had to go through to take care of us at such an early age in their lives. (both 18 when I was born and then had my bro and sis before they were 22).
Eventually I hated my dad and felt that my mom didn't care about anything other than herself and moved out. we all spoke and stuff, not like we had crazy animosity over certain things. It was just that we weren't that close. We didn't know each other. This lasted for years. I started communicating with them more kind of recently. My dad quit smoking and started taking zoloft. Coupled with age, it must have helped because he is all happy go lucky now, no crazy bi-polar-ish outbursts of frustration about silly shit. My mom and I got to understand each other as adults and we seem fine. Fucking happy ending right? Not really, although the relationship is a little better as we are all adults, the whole 4-ness in me still has me confused and jaded when it comes to the reality of life.

Basically we just never knew each other and what we did know, we didn't like. I wonder if my dad wanted me to be his good little soldier but was disappointed because I had a mind of my own from a very early age. A mind of my own so far out there that not many other people I met growing up even could relate.
I still get self conscious about my odd nature, even around family, but kind of wouldn't want it any other way... being odd that is. I sometimes wonder that if I were truly able to act like myself in this world that I'd be considered fucking mad. Am already told by many that I'm "out there", which I can't help but see as a huge compliment.
blah blah blah I'm finished.

the stuff i highlighted is similar to my own experience. and honestly, reminds me of another 4 i know in real life. the "abandonment" feeling can come from harsh parents where misunderstandings abound, i think. i was always a bit quieter in nature, to the point people thought i was mute when i was very young. and so, same for me, my family was my only world. well... my family and my own mind. i'm one of those rare ISFP 4's, i suppose. and so in some ways, lean towards INFP tendencies. but anyways, my dad and my sister whom took after him, were loud and angry folk. something i frowned upon. and as i got older, reacted rebelliously towards. lashing out and calling them grown-up children. it was in my teen and early twenties that i got into many fights with my family, and felt often like the black sheep. not to mention, my views, ideals, etc. were completely different from them and they often couldn't understand where i was coming from. so i withdrew my views and opinions from them and refused to be my complete self around them. but becoming older, my father one day said to me in an endearing way and not talking down to me, "you've always been the weird one." but like i said, he said it with an endearing tone. an accepting tone. and he gave me a hug. and after that, my confidence around them rose and i was able to unite self with self and become whole and feel good. i finally realized, they'll accept me for me.

sorry, i went on a tangent about myself.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

To keep my ridiculously long story short, I was connected to both my parents hips since I was very young. When I was nine, my dad became a major party animal and alcoholic and just kind of abandoned my family in the sense that he told us he doesn't like to be around us, he prefers partying than to come home to us.

My mom was always so frighteningly deep into depression and so emotionally sensitive that every day caused me personal stress about whether or not I was going to do something to make her explode. From a young age I had always been really close to my mother, but when my dad started getting heavily into drinking, she'd take her anger and sadness out on me. Not my siblings-me. I was the oldest, she threw her emotional crap on me. When I was thirteen I started to head into my own level of depression and my mom couldn't tolerate it. The best way she knew to handle it was to let me know constantly that she hated me and that I was just pretending to have emotional problems for the attention. I remember coming to her and telling her that I had a problem, I was so sad all the time and thought I should get some help (at 13!!) and she became so angry with me. I ended up saying something like "Never mind, it's just me. I can fix it." Just so she wouldn't be angry with me.

I felt very abandoned by my family. Even grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins never wanted anything to do with our family. To make matters worse my family moved just about every 2 years so I never had any friends. I was so shy, had so much anxiety, panic, and depression. I didn't know how to relate to people my age. I've always been alone and people I come across IRL don't understand that.

To this day I have trouble interacting with people, it's not easy for me. I've been shown my whole life that I'm not important and that I'm invisible, so it's not so hard for me to believe that I have issues now. So, yes, my issues stem from my family. I've never hated them, I've always just wanted them to love me and give me the attention I felt I needed.

 

[Lady_X]

aww stepho...that last line broke my heart. it just should never be that way.. but...somehow...going through that seems to have given you an inner strength and confidence you may not have developed otherwise...crazy all the emotional shit people go through as kids...how it shapes them for their whole life..

 

[Sunny Ghost]

aww stepho...that last line broke my heart. it just should never be that way.. but...somehow...going through that seems to have given you an inner strength and confidence you may not have developed otherwise...crazy all the emotional shit people go through as kids...how it shapes them for their whole life..

agreed.

i can also relate to you on the moving thing. we moved every year or every other year growing up due to the military and my parents other jobs. being an already shy kid, that didn't help. i always found it hard to relate to other people and often only had my sister or my sisters friends (as she's an extrovert and made them easily). it took a long time for me to break my shell. and though i do have friends, i still consider myself a bit of a loner.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

aww stepho...that last line broke my heart. it just should never be that way.. but...somehow...going through that seems to have given you an inner strength and confidence you may not have developed otherwise...crazy all the emotional shit people go through as kids...how it shapes them for their whole life..

It's true. It irritates me that I thought this was normal for so long, that I just HAD to live with this unhappiness. I don't want to be one of those people who become crippled from something like that, I desire to take it and make it some thing positive, to at least help others with. But I feel like any time I bring my past up like that, I'm being self absorbed and it takes a lot for me NOT to delete everything I just wrote. I'm still working on that type of mind set. I'm a lot better than I was before, my mother and I have a strong relationship now that she's healthier and not depressed. It's very different, but I still suffer from decisions made in my child hood. I just don't want to be a prisoner to it.

agreed.

i can also relate to you on the moving thing. we moved every year or every other year growing up due to the military and my parents other jobs. being an already shy kid, that didn't help. i always found it hard to relate to other people and often only had my sister or my sisters friends (as she's an extrovert and made them easily). it took a long time for me to break my shell. and though i do have friends, i still consider myself a bit of a loner.

This happened to me quite often. My younger sister is an ENFJ and she makes friends like crazy, so I'd hang on her sometimes. Most of my life I was in school by myself without any siblings, so it didn't always work. I consider myself a loner very much as well.

the stuff i highlighted is similar to my own experience. and honestly, reminds me of another 4 i know in real life. the "abandonment" feeling can come from harsh parents where misunderstandings abound, i think. i was always a bit quieter in nature, to the point people thought i was mute when i was very young. and so, same for me, my family was my only world. well... my family and my own mind. i'm one of those rare ISFP 4's, i suppose. and so in some ways, lean towards INFP tendencies. but anyways, my dad and my sister whom took after him, were loud and angry folk. something i frowned upon. and as i got older, reacted rebelliously towards. lashing out and calling them grown-up children. it was in my teen and early twenties that i got into many fights with my family, and felt often like the black sheep. not to mention, my views, ideals, etc. were completely different from them and they often couldn't understand where i was coming from. so i withdrew my views and opinions from them and refused to be my complete self around them. but becoming older, my father one day said to me in an endearing way and not talking down to me, "you've always been the weird one." but like i said, he said it with an endearing tone. an accepting tone. and he gave me a hug. and after that, my confidence around them rose and i was able to unite self with self and become whole and feel good. i finally realized, they'll accept me for me.

sorry, i went on a tangent about myself.

See, I relate a whole lot with this as well. I felt like the black sheep as well. Maybe it has to do with the whole E4 Type ISFP thing.
I had a lot more crap come from my mom and sister though. They have their values and beliefs and hold true to them very dearly. I questioned more just because I wanted to know or I'd argue a different perspective than my moms and it never went down well, lol.
Just the same, as I've gotten older I've become a lot more confident about speaking my mind around my family when before it was an iffy thing to do.