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  1. #181
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by hilo View Post
    Perhaps we have fewer "certainties" than other types, but this is somewhat dependent on MBTI type and (perhaps most importantly) age/maturity.

    As I get older, I realize that I mostly come to have solid core beliefs/feelings through experiences and not through reasoning (which can always be overturned by superior evidence, and is therefore tentative) or Fi-dom style gut feelings (because these are, indeed, largely inacessible to me). Many of these experiences revolve around "trying on" the beliefs/aspirations of another and carrying it to the breaking point. (Unconsciously, of course). This is a rather slow, torturous way of gaining certainty/identity/beliefs. It seems until this process plays out I am indeed vulnerable to taking on too much of a valued "other".
    Interesting. Is this moral ambiguity a common problem for 9s?
    That sounds like a process pregnant with pitfalls. What happens when the relationship fails? Does your certainty about everything (instead of just the relationship) collapse? Is that why the fear of separation is so intense? (And therefore the fear of conflict so entrenched.)

    I don't experience Fi as a gut feeling. It's simply a personal set of values with their own subjective logic. I understand that there are no moral absolutes, but at the same time I have little problem determining an ethical stance that is consistent with my world view. This seems entirely rational to me. Gut feeling is only involved if a principle is violated. Though it's interesting that you describe it in those terms. Since gut feelings are usually somewhat repressed and enigmatic for 9s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    9w1 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post

    So we're both 9s! How cool. We have a lot in common with the way we interact with people, I think. We play similar roles in their lives even though we have slightly different methods.

    So you're a w1 and I'm supposedly a w5 or something, I think. I don't remember.
    Either 9w1 or 9w8.

    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    But I'll tell you how I responded to this post. I would not avoid that kind of situation because for me, making peace sometimes requires that people confront their hangups. If a person is narrow minded and hung up on someone else's private, supposedly personal beliefs, they're misguided. They're not seeing the big picture, not giving people freedom, not living in harmony with others, and in my opinion, not really in harmony with themselves because they're so busy judging and micromanaging the world and their family like property. I would challenge that person in order to shake them up, especially if I thought they were capable of change. Harmony is the same goal, but I'm usually willing to inflict pain if the end-result is positive. It's like administering a shot of antibiotics.
    Who says the end result is positive or that you can change them?

    Quote Originally Posted by xNTP View Post
    I'm actually really curious about how you came to let go of your need to make sure people were okay. I read through it and didn't see the logical connection between knowing it was your tendency and letting go of that. I guess you just became aware that it was a personal thing you were doing? Can you explain the first post a little more?
    Mostly it's just questioning why I'm acting that way. When making sure someone else is okay to the point I'm being harmed, I have to let it go.

    Quote Originally Posted by hilo View Post
    So I guess in answer to the above, I don't think avoidance was a good thing. These are core beliefs, they are who you are, and by not being authentic you do a disservice to those that know you - real relationships should be built on a real version of you, not the one you have shaped to fit - it's almost condescending to do that. I hope I have learned, but I know I have to really focus on boundaries and expression of my own desires in the future (a key problem being that Fi is my weakest function, which makes me hesitant to insist on anything which is felt).
    That's true, you just have to accept sometimes you're going to hurt them or destroy the relationship.

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