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[Type 3] 3w4

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
what mbti types are you 3w4?

i've seen entp, exfj, and istp. does intp make any sense? entj?
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
I'm 4w3 or 3w4

and I'm an enfp

go fig.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
i've heard of enfp 4w3 but i have difficulty in understanding how enfp can work the 3 or 3 wing. i can see more easily how Se, Fe, and Ti play into the 3 project.

i've heard of enfp 2s as well, but i've yet to see it, and i can't even speculate how that works.

there's some stuff about 7w6 and 4w3, but i haven't figured it out. i thought walt whitman was a 4w3, and song of myself feels 4w3, but then i started shifting and seeing him as 7w6 sx/so. the sx pushes someone in a similar direction, the desire for individuation, completion, expression.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I'm 4w3 or 3w4

and I'm an enfp

go fig.

whatup :cheers:


i've heard of enfp 4w3 but i have difficulty in understanding how enfp can work the 3 or 3 wing. i can see more easily how Se, Fe, and Ti play into the 3 project.

i've heard of enfp 2s as well, but i've yet to see it, and i can't even speculate how that works.

there's some stuff about 7w6 and 4w3, but i haven't figured it out. i thought walt whitman was a 4w3, and song of myself feels 4w3, but then i started shifting and seeing him as 7w6 sx/so. the sx pushes someone in a similar direction, the desire for individuation, completion, expression.

:hi:

As much as the theories make me want to stab myself, I'm gonna go ahead and ""explain"" ENFP 3-ness with Te. And by ""explain"" I mean I'm going to leave it at that and let others have at it.


Really, what we've got is two typology systems that explain different things. We're not going to have one system outright explaining another, although there are going to be some loose correlations.

I've used the analogy of an object and its shadows, and I'll reiterate it here. Shining a light on it in one direction will cast one shadow; shining a light in another direction will cast another shadow--and it may look completely different depending on how the object is shaped. But, really, both shadows can tell us something about the object.

Think of the object as the brain; lights as various typology systems, life experiences, and other factors; and shadows as test results and other self-revelations--the things that we can "see" about ourselves.

A light shined on the top of a soda can will project a circle; a light shined on its side will project a rectangular shape. They're not contradictory, though they may seem to be.
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
I dont know why I'm a 3. If I went by functions, its my Fi and tertiary Te.


all I know is I'm driven to be pretty, rich, and yes, I derive I degree of happiness from ambition and a degree of shame from lack their of.
 

surgery

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
257
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
Four
all I know is I'm driven to be pretty, rich [...]

Exellent, lol.

Just out of curiosity, how are you with setting and meeting long term goals?
Do you even feel the need in order to do that at all, or are you able satisfy your style's passion in other ways?

As a 4w3, I am constantly setting goals sometimes elaborate, other times more practical goals, towards which I tend to launch myself.
Consequently, I burn out before reaching them, which provides fuel for my Four-ish angst.

Do you have as similar problems?
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Exellent, lol.

Just out of curiosity, how are you with setting and meeting long term goals?
Do you even feel the need in order to do that at all, or are you able satisfy your style's passion in other ways?

As a 4w3, I am constantly setting goals sometimes elaborate, other times more practical goals, towards which I tend to launch myself.
Consequently, I burn out before reaching them, which provides fuel for my Four-ish angst.

Do you have as similar problems?

I have the exaaaaaaact same problem lol

and I'm much more of a 4w3 than a 3w4 but I relate to both of those.

but yes, I have my latest goal as being an au pair in europe for the summer

other plans include launching my own art gallery, ect

then I have practical ones like run for art history club president...

sometimes the goals get met, I always start out with the best intentions but its hard to stay focused and then I feel terrible when I cant follow throughhh :(
 

JFNI

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
56
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w3
3w4 and I hate it.
 

Rhapsody

New member
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
140
MBTI Type
INFP
I think I am 3w4, though not entirely sure. I'm fairly certain I'm not 4w3. I could see myself being a 9 with a strong connection to 3 along the line of integration, especially after reading the thing posted about 3 being 9's soul child.

In any case, Chloee sent me links to two graphics that show the overlap/opposition between xNFP and E3. You might find it interesting, state_I_am_in, if you are trying to figure out how NFPs and E3 mesh.

INFP and E3: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1461/infp3.jpg
ENFP and E3: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/899/gviewp.png
 

Rhapsody

New member
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
140
MBTI Type
INFP
Also, LucrativeSid wrote about being a 3w4 ENTP in this thread and said a lot of things I really relate to and that I think apply to 3w4 xNFPs (and maybe 4w3 NFPs) as well. So here I go with the quoting now (hopefully he doesn't mind, wherever he is ...):

I'd say that I do crave admiration, both from my intelligence and creative prowess. That's a very 3w4 thing. It seems like a stupid thing to be motivated by, right? But I want to be WORTHY of admiration, that's the real driver. So while I do tend to show off a little bit, the ultimate critic of my own significance and worthiness is me. I want to be magnificent, for myself, and for everybody else. I don't want to just play the part. At some point, it has absolutely nothing to do with filling in for insecurities anymore. It's about knowing that you've got a knack for breaking through boundaries, loving the process, and hoping that you'll be able to inspire positive change within yourself and others as the result of it. Creation and discovery are big things for me, and I'm passionate about those processes. There's lots of things I could do to look more successful on the outside, but it wouldn't mean anything to me. I want to celebrate my own vision, not someone else's. I'm not shy about sticking my vision in front of other people, in fact, I like it, but I wouldn't be able to live if I stuck them in front of my vision. I am always very aware of my image and how I'm perceived, but all of the effort I put into that is so that I'm seen as who I am, and not just who I want them to see me as. Not that it requires effort to be seen as who I am - I'm referring to something like sharing a creation. So it's just plain old authenticity or pure creativity.

That's my perspective right now at least. I can't say for sure that all 3s or 3w4s would agree with it, but in my opinion, it could be a decent insight into the mindset. I think it sounds self-inflating, so please note that it's just an attempt to describe something. I'm making no claims.

Annnd, one more:

I've always wanted to be the hero, the light-bringer, the sage, the creator, the scientist, or the philosopher. Someone who makes a profound difference in a unique way.

...

In short, I'm grandiose. Aspirations of grandeur rather than delusions of grandeur.
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
I think I am 3w4, though not entirely sure. I'm fairly certain I'm not 4w3. I could see myself being a 9 with a strong connection to 3 along the line of integration, especially after reading the thing posted about 3 being 9's soul child.

In any case, Chloee sent me links to two graphics that show the overlap/opposition between xNFP and E3. You might find it interesting, state_I_am_in, if you are trying to figure out how NFPs and E3 mesh.

INFP and E3: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1461/infp3.jpg
ENFP and E3: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/899/gviewp.png


the enfp one was startlingly accurate

also, I feel like because I secretly want to be an entj, its not how I act but its what I wish i could do sometimes, distance myself from all these day dreams and procrastination & indecisiveness, I think that the 3ness in me comes from the enfp passion turned up to entj determination

what I mean to say through my obvious nfp ramblings is this:

I highly identify with 3's as both an individual & enfp

and I wish i could be MORE 3 and less 4

but be careful what you wish for...
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think I am 3w4, though not entirely sure. I'm fairly certain I'm not 4w3. I could see myself being a 9 with a strong connection to 3 along the line of integration, especially after reading the thing posted about 3 being 9's soul child.

In any case, Chloee sent me links to two graphics that show the overlap/opposition between xNFP and E3. You might find it interesting, state_I_am_in, if you are trying to figure out how NFPs and E3 mesh.

INFP and E3: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1461/infp3.jpg
ENFP and E3: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/899/gviewp.png

Source? I'd like to see them all. Which must be a lot.
 
G

garbage

Guest
also, I feel like because I secretly want to be an entj, its not how I act but its what I wish i could do sometimes, distance myself from all these day dreams and procrastination & indecisiveness, I think that the 3ness in me comes from the enfp passion turned up to entj determination

This for me, too, except I do 'act ENTJ/3'. Whatever you'd want to call it. Lots of forward planning, assertiveness, and detaching myself from the situation to 'do what needs to be done'. I feel as though I'm an unmatched productivity powerhouse when I'm in that mode.

but be careful what you wish for...

But, this.

When I'm in a mode like that, I'll end up giving my friends a 'swift kick in the ass' instead of the 'shoulder to cry on' that they may really need. I'm less patient overall. I speak my mind and have the potential to get myself into trouble with incorrect perceptions that I'm too quick to judge.

It's just gotta be tempered.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I'm going to be lazy and quote myself from another thread, because I think this is pretty 3-ish:

Accomplishments: a love/hate relationship

My feeling when I graduated with my bachelor's degree was one of apathy. "Wake me up when I get my Ph.D." I didn't want to get a class ring or any other mementos, because it didn't really mean a whole lot to me.

Masters degree? Same thing. Though, I relented and got a class ring because my parents urged me to do so.

Promotions at work don't tend to mean a whole lot to me, because I'm looking to get a business of my own up and running eventually. "Wake me up when my business takes off."

And I'm sure that, when I get my Ph.D. and/or get my business off the ground, I'll have another pot of gold that I'll be chasing, and so I won't stop for long to enjoy the one that I've already reached. Hell, I've already got plans for an MBA after my Ph.D. ..

It's a tendency of mine to write off my own accomplishments and deem them trivial. I've gotten better about recognizing them, but, still--that lingering tendency is there.


If I had to answer the question, my biggest accomplishment is probably overcoming my social and general anxiety. I feel pretty much no anxiety anymore--about anything--and that's enabled me to do so much more in life. It's freeing, rewarding, and relaxing.

Since it had been a life-long struggle and a huge detriment to me in the early stages of my development, there was a lot to overcome.
 

gigi_xo

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
376
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
This for me, too, except I do 'act ENTJ/3'. Whatever you'd want to call it. Lots of forward planning, assertiveness, and detaching myself from the situation to 'do what needs to be done'. I feel as though I'm an unmatched productivity powerhouse when I'm in that mode.


This happens to me as well. Just it happens rarely. and when I'm in the zone I feel very, very Te. very Ne. very Te.

my Fi almost gets shut off. and when this happens I feel a lot stronger. I like it.

but it happens less. I suppose thats why you're more 3w4 and I'm MORE 4w3 thought I'm not convinced either way yet.



But, this.

When I'm in a mode like that, I'll end up giving my friends a 'swift kick in the ass' instead of the 'shoulder to cry on' that they may really need. I'm less patient overall. I speak my mind and have the potential to get myself into trouble with incorrect perceptions that I'm too quick to judge.

It's just gotta be tempered.


I mostly just get frustrated, almost introverted, a bit irritable when this happens.

I WANT to speak my mind more. I really wish I knew how, but I'm too nervous. maybe I just need more confidence for this

but in this mode, I'm certainly no shoulder to cry on
 

Rhapsody

New member
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
140
MBTI Type
INFP
Source? I'd like to see them all. Which must be a lot.

Chloee says they are from Pat Wyman's book "Three Keys to Self-Understanding" (website on it here Pat Wyman Three Keys to Self-Understanding). I've been meaning to look into the book further, but haven't gotten the chance yet, so haven't seen what other Enneagram/MBTI diagrams it has.

Edit: And here it is on Google Books. Not sure how much of the book you can see using that, though. - Three Keys to Self-Understanding: An ... - Google Books
 

surgery

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
257
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
Four
what mbti types are you 3w4?

i've seen entp, exfj, and istp. does intp make any sense? entj?

That's interesting that you've seen ISTP and ENTP Threes. How does Introverted Thinking figure into that style at all?

Ti, as far as I understand it, is supposed to figure out how something works. It's "subjective logic," as Lenore Thompson describes it, used to "coordinate our behavior logically with immediate sensory data."

From Personality Types: An Owners Manuel:

"INTPs see logical implications in terms of systematic change over time (...)"
"INTPs are likely to be more interested in the idea that animates a system and its impact on reality than they are with a system's objective utility."

Even more action-oriented ISTPs probably wouldn't have much concern for understanding something for the sake of making themselves look better, or at least, not in order to construct a consistent image of success.
If a Three used dominate Introverted Thinking, perhaps he or she would be a good trouble-shooter. Someone who quickly produces solutions to problems. In a professional environment this could bolster his reputation, but dominant Introverted Thinking naturally conflicts with the social adaptability of a Three. With Extraverted Feeling as the inferior function, "these types can be nearly oblivious to the social rituals and signs of relationship that Extraverted Feeling regulates.

3w4s may be more introspective than 3w2s, but as Threes, they are still primarily extraverts, right?

However, for ENTPs, things may be different:
"Unlike ETPs, who involve themselves in whatever turns up and may not know what really suits them, ITPs know exactly what they are good at, and they don't feel the need to do much else."

In the Heart Triad, Threes are the most removed from their feelings. They put them aside in order to complete tasks. Extraverted Judgement would make sense in relationship to that.
However, would inferior Introverted Feeling be responsible for driving ETJs to experience one of the basic fears of a Three, such as feeling loved for the image and the performance rather than the true self?

"Although ENTJs are not naturally tuned into other people's feelings, these individuals frequently have very strong sentimental streaks.
Often these sentiments are very powerful to the ENTJ, although they will likely hide it from general knowledge, believing the feelings to be a weakness."
(Personality Page, ENTJ)

Also, could we make a case for ESJs more often being 3w2s while ENJs are more often 3w4?

I feel like I am going in circles trying to find perfect correlations between the enneagram and functions in Myers-Briggs.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
That's interesting that you've seen ISTP and ENTP Threes. How does Introverted Thinking figure into that style at all?

Ti, as far as I understand it, is supposed to figure out how something works. It's "subjective logic," as Lenore Thompson describes it, used to "coordinate our behavior logically with immediate sensory data."

From Personality Types: An Owners Manuel:

"INTPs see logical implications in terms of systematic change over time (...)"
"INTPs are likely to be more interested in the idea that animates a system and its impact on reality than they are with a system's objective utility."

Even more action-oriented ISTPs probably wouldn't have much concern for understanding something for the sake of making themselves look better, or at least, not in order to construct a consistent image of success.
If a Three used dominate Introverted Thinking, perhaps he or she would be a good trouble-shooter. Someone who quickly produces solutions to problems. In a professional environment this could bolster his reputation, but dominant Introverted Thinking naturally conflicts with the social adaptability of a Three. With Extraverted Feeling as the inferior function, "these types can be nearly oblivious to the social rituals and signs of relationship that Extraverted Feeling regulates.

3w4s may be more introspective than 3w2s, but as Threes, they are still primarily extraverts, right?

However, for ENTPs, things may be different:
"Unlike ETPs, who involve themselves in whatever turns up and may not know what really suits them, ITPs know exactly what they are good at, and they don't feel the need to do much else."

In the Heart Triad, Threes are the most removed from their feelings. They put them aside in order to complete tasks. Extraverted Judgement would make sense in relationship to that.
However, would inferior Introverted Feeling be responsible for driving ETJs to experience one of the basic fears of a Three, such as feeling loved for the image and the performance rather than the true self?

"Although ENTJs are not naturally tuned into other people's feelings, these individuals frequently have very strong sentimental streaks.
Often these sentiments are very powerful to the ENTJ, although they will likely hide it from general knowledge, believing the feelings to be a weakness."
(Personality Page, ENTJ)

Also, could we make a case for ESJs more often being 3w2s while ENJs are more often 3w4?

I feel like I am going in circles trying to find perfect correlations between the enneagram and functions in Myers-Briggs.

i like this.

i see istps 3s as athletes and many famous crazy celebrities. think michael jordan and tom cruise. a very strong I WILL MAKE YOU LOVE ME kind of feeling i get from them. i will not stop, etc. do you disagree with typing them as 3w4 sx/sp? i was toying with typing hunter s thompson as 3w4 vs 7w8 for quentin tarantino. but most people thought hunter was a 7w8.

i see 3 as being strongly correlated with Fe-Ti. Fe knowing how to communicate, understanding persuasive language, and Ti creating sequences and logical chains to understand how something will work. Ti folks are gamers in relationships, they begin to see causal connections and know what will happen with each response, creating a model of a person based on these rather than on a holistic Fi mapping/self-imagining.

i think the esfj enfj 3w2 3w4 makes a lot of sense. tho i know 3w2 and 2w3 enfjs (i think), along with 2w1 and 1w2. i'm not sure if 4w5 makes sense, or what jonathan richman is, or leonard cohen. typing enfjs in enneagram is difficult for me. and i don't know if infj sx/so even exists, which would be the most blurred, assertive version of infj. that enfj and entp can be 3w4 also is interesting when trying to figure someone out, especially males in older age who develop Fe pretty decently. i think your point about 3 (and 7?) being primarily extroverted is good to keep in mind, but it seems like there is pretty good evidence here at least for istp as being well-represented among both types.

i don't see how ntjs could be 3s because i see them, generally, as quite poor at image management. contending with the feelings of others and creating an image of themselves in those eyes in order to escape an inner sense of shame. i see ntj perfectionism more manifested as e1. but admittedly i am no expert on ntjs.

i'm thinking the intp e3 idea might be out. doesn't seem like there's much evidence for it.
 

surgery

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
257
MBTI Type
INFP
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Four
i like this.

<3

i see istps 3s as athletes and many famous crazy celebrities. think michael jordan and tom cruise. a very strong I WILL MAKE YOU LOVE ME kind of feeling i get from them. i will not stop, etc. do you disagree with typing them as 3w4 sx/sp? i was toying with typing hunter s thompson as 3w4 vs 7w8 for quentin tarantino. but most people thought hunter was a 7w8.

Are you familiar with American Psycho? I think the character, Patrick Bateman, played by Christian Bale must be a 3w4.
Consequently, whenever I see an image of Bale outside of that role, I immediately think 3w4.
I sort of subconsciously labeled him as 3w4 too, but I don't have any real evidence of that.

Would you agree that Tom Cruise plays a lot of action roles? I've seem him typed as ESTP.
His roles are intense, and he brings that same intensity off the screen as on. Is this what makes you conclude 3w4?

I would imagine that ETJs are frequently successful athletes too -- not just SPs. Aside from jumping up and down on Oprah's couch, is there are reason why Tom Cruise couldn't be TJ?
Perhaps we confusing his characters with his real self? Or does he naturally gravitate to those roles because of his preference for Extraverted Sensation?

Also, type Three wants success in order to have their identity validated. What about type Eights? They can be equally driven and successful, but in order to assert their independence, and thus, dominance.

To me, Michael Jordan is too ridiculously successful to not be a Three. Yet, to me, that doesn't suggest STP more than TJ. Same for Cruise, but I wouldn't assume he's a Three too or that many successful STP athletes are.

I'm not familiar with Tarantino or Thompson.
Yikes, I don't know. It's just so difficult to type celebrities.


i see 3 as being strongly correlated with Fe-Ti.

I can totally see this.

However, Ti-Fe seems very unlikely for 3w4 to me because I think it leads to resisting social expectations, especially when unhealthy.
Dominant Introverted Thinking supposedly does what it wants, which leads to my problem with in in correlation with 3w4: inefficiency.
ITPs seem like the least committed to meeting goals they don't set for themselves, especially ones that require planning, step-by-step tasks, etc.
It would prove difficult to find success in with that as many different areas as Threes do with that mentality.

Introverted Thinking skillsets can, at times, be more flexible when contrasted with Extraverted Thinking.
However, I don't think Ti motivates a person to do more, in a traditional "to-do list fashion."
If ISTP 3w4 does occur, and frequently, would they almost exclusively gravitate towards athletics or the arts?

Honestly, I know very few STPs or EJs at personal level. The ISTP I know is type Nine. I know an ESFJ who was stuck between 3w2 and 2w3.



i don't see how ntjs could be 3s because i see them, generally, as quite poor at image management. contending with the feelings of others and creating an image of themselves in those eyes in order to escape an inner sense of shame. i see ntj perfectionism more manifested as e1. but admittedly i am no expert on ntjs.

With Te-Fi, I don't think the effects are quite the same, but I don't have my L. Thompson book with me at the moment, so I can't give any references right now.
You make a good point though. How likely are ENTJs to curtail their beliefs in order to get ahead?

Perhaps with inferior Introverted Feeling, ENTJ 3s wouldn't naturally tune into the why behind their goals.
It's an personal value from their environment that they've confused with a measurable, objective structure.
Thus, their focus goes on meeting how to meet the goal, what resources will they have to spend, what's am I going to do next?

So, as for image maintenance, an ENTJ 3 wouldn't think twice about adjusting their beliefs because it's just another part of meeting the ends.

Honestly, that seems a little out there.Threes value efficiency and defined goals, which I immediately associate with Extraverted Thinking. So, the correlation just seemed natural to me.


i don't know if infj sx/so even exists, which would be the most blurred, assertive version of infj.

Until now, I assumed that the instincts could be applied to any type. Have you read or heard anything that says otherwise? What are you personal thoughts on that?
 
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