[Type 4] Calling all 4's

[Amargith]

Honestly, I dunno which wing I am as I identify with both

 

[speculative]

The Enneathought of the Day reminded me of this thread:

Average Fours long for a deep and intimate relationship with someone who will "recognize" them for who they are. They want someone to validate their identity in the way they feel that their parents did not. Watch for this tendency in yourself today. (Personality Types, 151)

 

[Southern Kross]

I agree! Where the heck are the 4w3's?? I mean, come on! We're amazing!

But, it's interesting to see that there seems to be more 4w5's than 4w3's. Kind of makes you wonder which 4 is getting the rep for being the over all 4. In my mind, the two are kind of different.

4w5's:

4w3's:

But don't quote me, those are just the pictures I see in my head when referring to both types. I can't even be sure that it's a significant representation.

Maybe this is a case of 4w3s not being as interested in the internet in general as 4w5s. I'd certainly like to know more about 4w3s (and 3w4s for that matter) and the differing approaches to life.

BTW I'm secretly jealous of 4w3s because they seem like the improved version of me

 

[tibby]

Maybe this is a case of 4w3s not being as interested in the internet in general as 4w5s. I'd certainly like to know more about 4w3s (and 3w4s for that matter) and the differing approaches to life.

BTW I'm secretly jealous of 4w3s because they seem like the improved version of me

Same here. I see the difference over here has been narrowed to be: 4w5's are more deep & intellectual whereas 4w3's are overall more light (shallow?) and not as deep. I mean, who wouldn't want to be more deep & intellectual? Especially in the case of 4w3's. Maybe 4w3's feel ashamed, isn't their motivation fixated on making an impression, maintain an image? And still with the 4:ness they see the contradiction and inauthencitity of this and how it clashes, so they sort of look for an alternative identity (like 4w5, that they latch onto it so much so even they can't recognise their true faces underneath) that will save them from the embarrassment of facing the fact that all they've done has been to put up another act.

Might be that there are a lot of mistyped 4w3's thinking they're 5-wingers.
Or not.

But I think 4w3 can morph into anything it wants and be whatever it wants to be, kind of, and buy it.

 

[mr.awesome]

im a 4w5
my enneagram changes so much... ive been a 4, a 5, and a 9. and variations of them.
at the moment im apparently a 4w5 though.

 

[sketchymcsketcherson]

Alright you peeps, lemme hear ya, i wanna know who's a 4 around here.

:hi:

Also, I'd like to know how many of you find the lack of depth in connections with others to be annoying and yearn for more.

If I am with someone I feel "connected" with, I can do anything with that person and have fun. Read books, play video games, walk in the park, drive, listen to music...it doesn't matter. So long as we share that deep, transcendent bond, I simply enjoy that person's very company.

However, if we don't share a real connection, or I look to connect with someone and he or she doesn't reciprocate, my emotional involvement soon withers and dies.

And here's the thing, I can form this connection with almost anybody. The only people I don't have any desire to connect to are unhealthy, mean, or corrupt in some way. This makes it disappointing when I really enjoy the presence of someone but he or she doesn't feel the same.

Amargith, this is like the 20th time I've read one of your posts and been amazed at how similarly we think.

4w5 here, BTW.

 

[Bubbles]

Maybe this is a case of 4w3s not being as interested in the internet in general as 4w5s. I'd certainly like to know more about 4w3s (and 3w4s for that matter) and the differing approaches to life.

BTW I'm secretly jealous of 4w3s because they seem like the improved version of me

Same here. I see the difference over here has been narrowed to be: 4w5's are more deep & intellectual whereas 4w3's are overall more light (shallow?) and not as deep. I mean, who wouldn't want to be more deep & intellectual? Especially in the case of 4w3's. Maybe 4w3's feel ashamed, isn't their motivation fixated on making an impression, maintain an image? And still with the 4:ness they see the contradiction and inauthencitity of this and how it clashes, so they sort of look for an alternative identity (like 4w5, that they latch onto it so much so even they can't recognise their true faces underneath) that will save them from the embarrassment of facing the fact that all they've done has been to put up another act.

Might be that there are a lot of mistyped 4w3's thinking they're 5-wingers.
Or not.

But I think 4w3 can morph into anything it wants and be whatever it wants to be, kind of, and buy it.

4w3 so/sx represent!

I think part of being 4w3 is that we're not frustrated by shallower connections with people, more frustrated by other people's idea that we ourselves aren't as full of depth. I already went through my mopey unhealthy 4 stage, and now I do cling to my 3 wing a lot, but still.

The thing is, every enneagram type identifies with both wings. But which is dominant? For the 4w3s, we certainly have our 5 moments. And we do lay down and want to think and ponder and wonder.

Sometimes people get upset with me when I have those moments. They say, "Something's off with you today" or "You're different than usual." I usually just say, "I've been writing." And they're like, ohh you're in THAT mode. And I'm not as "fun" in that mode. I don't want to be silly, or fun, or carefree. I get irritated with that. I want to think, and that's when I want and crave that connection Amargith mentioned. Of course, this is also why I pour so much of myself into writing--it's my way of letting all that out.

So 4w3s aren't "shallow," we're just not as NOTICEABLY "deep." You don't have to wear a mask of pain to be a thoughtful and self-searching soul.

 

[Tiltyred]

Deep and intellectual does not appeal to most people, really. So I don't know that it's anything to brag about, to the extent that it might be true. All I'm hearing is that some 4s are lonely. Nothing to envy, really, or feel superior about.

When I'm with someone who understands me, it's so rare, it feels like I was tied up in a billion knots and I can feel them slowly unwinding. It's small things, for example, I am completely enraptured by a movie that everybody else finds boring and stupid, so I can't share that because the conversation just gets cut off and my questionable taste is pointed out. Then I talk to the person who understands me and he says "Right. That scene where ..." and I jump up and say "YES! Where she said .. and he said ..." and we both nod and smile. Everything in me starts to hum with happiness.

It really does not happen often.

 

[Amargith]

Very true. And it's utter bliss when it finally does

 

[Tiltyred]

 

[entropie]

4s have a small pp

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmJUtQeiQzA"].[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Thalassa]

I think part of being 4w3 is that we're not frustrated by shallower connections with people, more frustrated by other people's idea that we ourselves aren't as full of depth.

Yeah, kind of this thing that Tibby said:

I mean, who wouldn't want to be more deep & intellectual? Especially in the case of 4w3's. Maybe 4w3's feel ashamed, isn't their motivation fixated on making an impression, maintain an image?

Makes me lulz because it's obviously biased with her 4w5 judgement that it's "better" to be like that. I'm not ashamed at all of being deep or intellectual. However, a certain level of intellectualism grates on my nerves, and I don't have the stomach for academia. It feels suffocating to me. Sure, I have my intellectual side of course, but I prefer it to be in a non-structured way, and I can't stand it if it interferes with my freedom to explore and interact with people. I think we want to make an impression because we enjoy interacting with people more. There's something theatrical about us.

4w5 seems a little more stuffy and isolated to me, though I certainly have plenty of my 4w5 moments.

So 4w3s aren't "shallow," we're just not as NOTICEABLY "deep." You don't have to wear a mask of pain to be a thoughtful and self-searching soul.

This.

 

[entropie]

CanI wear an elephant mask with a beak that looks like a dick and still be deep, thoughtful and shallow or whats it called ?

 

[Sniffles]

I'm happy being 4w5.

 

[Bubbles]

Yeah, kind of this thing that Tibby said:



Makes me lulz because it's obviously biased with her 4w5 judgement that it's "better" to be like that. I'm not ashamed at all of being deep or intellectual. However, a certain level of intellectualism grates on my nerves, and I don't have the stomach for academia. It feels suffocating to me. Sure, I have my intellectual side of course, but I prefer it to be in a non-structured way, and I can't stand it if it interferes with my freedom to explore and interact with people. I think we want to make an impression because we enjoy interacting with people more. There's something theatrical about us.

4w5 seems a little more stuffy and isolated to me, though I certainly have plenty of my 4w5 moments.

I think most 4 descriptions are biased towards 4w5s. I've made a thread or two complainin' about it, haha. I think 4w3s tend to be more laid-back and playful, while the 4w5 is too busy in this thinking-mode. It's like:

4w5: Considers DEEP MEANINGFUL THINGS about self.
4w3: Driven to EXPLORE self and EXPRESS it.

Or something to this effect. There's a difference. Eh?

 

[entropie]

Beware of 4wXxX

 

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

Deep and intellectual does not appeal to most people, really. So I don't know that it's anything to brag about, to the extent that it might be true. All I'm hearing is that some 4s are lonely. Nothing to envy, really, or feel superior about.

When I'm with someone who understands me, it's so rare, it feels like I was tied up in a billion knots and I can feel them slowly unwinding. It's small things, for example, I am completely enraptured by a movie that everybody else finds boring and stupid, so I can't share that because the conversation just gets cut off and my questionable taste is pointed out. Then I talk to the person who understands me and he says "Right. That scene where ..." and I jump up and say "YES! Where she said .. and he said ..." and we both nod and smile. Everything in me starts to hum with happiness.

It really does not happen often.

Yeah *blissful sigh* I love those moments. If I could just bottle them up... or maybe carry that person around with me in my pocket... maybe I'd be content?

 

[Loxias]

Hi, I think we are common over the internet. It is even disappointing to notice that there are so many of us roaming around.

 

[the state i am in]

sx is more responsible for the intensity. it's addictive and compulsive and intensely seeking.

4 is responsible for the deep-seated need for authenticity and individuality, that comes out of struggle to create a unique identity/an original self.

4s connect with their values. what is shallow is what is not unique. what is not different. what is just a fucking cliche (therefore empty, vapid, inhuman --> bc it is devoid of real values as constructed by the struggle to interpret individual subjective experience in its entirety w/ a blind eye to nothing).

the ultimate form of connection is complete and total recognition. finally someone sees the whole of me, NOW the acceptance of love actually matters. bc it is the real me, the real me is what is on the line/at stake.

the more you show, and the more the other can see you, the more of you you reveal and risk. scary, you can't even look yourself in the mirror half the time bc you already see too much of yourself that is still deeply troubling. and makes up the way you judge/see the world.

 

[garbage]

There's apparently a shortage of 4w3s.

So how much of your wing type description do you all relate to?

For me, the motivations and 'end product' of the 3 and 4 attitudes are both spot on for me most of the time, except that the 'self-loathing' trait of the 4 often outweighs the 'narcissism' of the 3.

The difference between the two types seems to be summed up pretty well here:

Like Twos and Threes, the other two personality types of the Feeling Center, Fours have a problem with hostility. They direct their hostility at themselves because like the Twos and Threes, Fours have rejected their real self in favor of an idealized self-image. However, because of their self-awareness, Fours are always becoming conscious of all of the ways in which they are not like their idealized self. They come to disdain many of their real qualities which they see as barriers to becoming the self of their imagination. Angry with themselves for being defective, Fours inhibit and punish themselves in the many ways which we will see.