[Type 5] INFP Type 5?

[Chloe]

Yeah, just because a 4 wing means "emotional" doesn't mean the 6 wing is "unemotional", it's just that their emotions don't define them. A 6 could feel just as deeply. But I'd honestly find the idea of an INFP 6 quite weird...I mean, the Loyalist? It just sounds so...Fe. But I'm sure it's possible.

I know a few INFP 6s, this guy could be Six, imo.

An INFP 8 though? I don't know about that. It pretty much contradicts every aspect of our personality...

And why you think E-type cant contradict your MBTI personality? You never seen people with great inner conflict?

I heard of few INFP 8s, dont know them personally, but brother of someone who is in MBTI business for her job is INFP 8, I trust that information. ENFP and 3 isnt the best combo either, still I am one.

 

[Aleksei]

An INFP 8 though? I don't know about that. It pretty much contradicts every aspect of our personality...

Why would it? A detached, jaded and borderline-psychotic (it can happen) INFP could easily be an 8. 8 is a very emotional type. I think INFP 8 would look like your average INTJ 8 (think Palpatine), but sloppier.

 

[auriel]

I know a few INFP 6s,

And why you think E-type cant contradict your MBTI personality? You never seen people with great inner conflict?

Well yeah, but don't we all have one personality? MBTI and the Enneagram measure different parts of it, but I'm pretty sure they must overlap. (I used to think I might be an INTP 4, but people made me see that if your mindset is dominated by Ti, you probably aren't going to seek out deep emotional experiences...it has no use for them in its decision making-process).

But maybe being an 8 doesn't contradict being an INFP, like Aleksei said. See, I really hate conflict, almost to an unhealthy degree, so I guess I was just assuming that other INFPs would be like me in that way. It almost always gets mentioned in INFP descriptions. But I suppose if 8-ness comes from the "fear of being controlled by others" (which pretty much everyone shares to some degree), it could make sense...

 

[Chloe]

Well yeah, but don't we all have one personality? MBTI and the Enneagram measure different parts of it, but I'm pretty sure they must overlap. (I used to think I might be an INTP 4, but people made me see that if your mindset is dominated by Ti, you probably aren't going to seek out deep emotional experiences...it has no use for them in its decision making-process).

Enneagram 4 isnt about seeking deep emotional experiences, it's about wanting to be special snowflake, why wouldnt NT want to be that?!

there is one member here on forum who is ENFP and 1, stringstheory, she's certain of her NFP preferences, becasue knows she's N,F,P etc., and by reading about E-1 she figured its her totally.
Now, 1 resembles the most to STJs, so... how's that? she just feels both things in her personality, need for 1s perfection and need for ENFP freedom etc.
those needs are very often different (1 is perfectionist, very J, ENFP is very spontanous) but she feels them both to a degree.

and INTP and 4 would still have some use of his E-4, 4s create emotions and drama as method of escaping real pain, so there's use to it, why not?!
The internal war is bigger than in INFP 4, but people are different.here's case of INTJ 4 ...



anyway, i rest my case... i am tired of explaining this to people. i guess only ones who got it are who experienced it on their own skin.

 

[auriel]

Please don't feel like I'm trying to "deny" anyone's type here. I know how frustrating it can be trying to defend something you believe in over and over to people who "just don't get it", but remember we're just honestly questioning how some of the (to us) weirder combinations can exist when, ultimately, we all have one personality. I just feel that some type combinations are so, well...eclectic that I couldn't imagine them coming out of the same (balanced) person.

Thanks for the link, though. Believe it or not, I've entertaining the possibility that I might be an INFP 5. I sort of related to what the INTJ 4 said, except in reverse...for me, it's detachment that disturbs me, not emotions (mind you, I suffer from severe depression and often experience it as detachment and numbness as well as hollow, crushing despair and fits of crying...so to be honest I can't even say which defense is natural for me).

 

[Chloe]

Please don't feel like I'm trying to "deny" anyone's type here. I know how frustrating it can be trying to defend something you believe in over and over to people who "just don't get it", but remember we're just honestly questioning how some of the (to us) weirder combinations can exist when, ultimately, we all have one personality. I just feel that some type combinations are so, well...eclectic that I couldn't imagine them coming out of the same (balanced) person.

No problem, it's not personal, I just figure that some people dont dig this theory so I am frustrated when I put energy in it to explain.
Anyway, yeah, person can be less balanced when has very weird combo, but thats life. You can look this thread for some of this, if you're interested.

Thanks for the link, though. Believe it or not, I've entertaining the possibility that I might be an INFP 5. I sort of related to what the INTJ 4 said, except in reverse...for me, it's detachment that disturbs me, not emotions (mind you, I suffer from severe depression and often experience it as detachment and numbness as well as hollow, crushing despair and fits of crying...so to be honest I can't even say which defense is natural for me).

There is INFP 5 example on several places in this book.

you sound like 5, with this what you said. I doubt 4s have detachment problem haha
and I am sorry for your depression, been dealing with it lately quite a lot, too

 

[OrangeAppled]

Here's a good explenation.

Intellectual Fours tend to mistakenly type themselves as Fives, and a heavy wing can certainly exacerbate this tendency. Fours however, unlike Fives, tend to be self-revealing and comfortable with emotional expression.

INFP's who score on the type 4 type 5 tree is most likely type 4. That includes you and me.. we just so happened to score type 5 because we have strong intellectual pursuits.

Hmm...interesting....I am NOT comfortable with emotional expression....I wouldn't call myself "self-revealing" either, at least not compared to most people. I get accused of being guarded & withdrawn...

 

[Chloe]

INFP's who score on the type 4 type 5 tree is most likely type 4. That includes you and me.. we just so happened to score type 5 because we have strong intellectual pursuits.

actually, it's opposite. INFPs who score high on 4 and 5 are usually 5s, because they score high on 4 because they are NFs.

:steam:

When you fight with 4 she/he will start to make drama and want your attention and start with "poor me", when you fight with 5 she/he will want you to GTFO and leave him alone for a while, while he figures wth happened and analyzes all that.
I just wonder how 4w5 reacts to fights?! or 5w4??

 

[OrangeAppled]

When you fight with 4 she/he will start to make drama and want your attention and start with "poor me", when you fight with 5 she/he will want you to GTFO and leave him alone for a while, while he figures wth happened and analyzes all that.
I just wonder how 4w5 reacts to fights?! or 5w4??

Hmmm....I'm more like a 5 in that respect. However, when it comes to your integration point, moving towards a 1 makes more sense to me than an 8. That would make me a 4. I've heard your wing can be so strong it's nearly equal to your type and you can share traits of both, and that would make sense for me, if it is indeed in harmony with the theory.

 

[angell_m]

I'll either leave or tell you to leave. And I reveal what I feel. And I sometimes score as 5w6. This whole enneagram is bull anyway, it constantly changes for me. All about the mood.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I'll either leave or tell you to leave. And I reveal what I feel. And I sometimes score as 5w6. This whole enneagram is bull anyway, it constantly changes for me. It's all mood related.

Well, MBTI can be that way also, when it comes to testing & mood. You have to move past the test & look at the underlying theory.

I test 5 as much as 4, but the more I've learned about the theory, the more makes sense, even if profiles make 4s sound way more dramatic and emotionally expressive than I am. The explanation for me is in my wing & instinctual stacking, which adds to the already withdrawn side of the 4. Not to say I still don't question if I am a 5 from time to time

 

[angell_m]

I get INFP nine out of ten times... only the percentages fluctuate.

But the enneagram I get

Type 5>9>4>6>1 (5w4, spsx)
Type 6>9>2>4>7 (6w7, sosx)

constantly changing once a week.

 

[Chloe]

This whole enneagram is bull anyway, it constantly changes for me. All about the mood.

it's not. and it doesnt change. it's more complex than mbti so people are skeptic.

 

[Hopelandic]

it's not. and it doesnt change. it's more complex than mbti so people are skeptic.

You know how some people concentrate more on personality profiles on the internet, than Jungian functions?

I think most people focus too much on enneagram profiles on the internet, than on the essential core things that make a type.

Profiles on the internet stray too far away from the core things of types, and instead go off on descriptive tangents that don't make significant or insights.

You know a good enneagram dialogue when it explores probable scenarios from motivations. When you can see or infer the logical connection between the motivation and the scenario. It says something, and it tells you WHY. It says, this is what may happen, and where it comes from. Instead of describing vaguely how something is (which usually isn't quite true) without connecting it to the source.
You know it's true, because it strikes you somehow, in a way you can't explain, because you can sense how insightful it is.

I'll give you an example of what I think is insightful;

YouTube - The Dynamic Enneagram - Tom Condon on Twos, Threes, Fours

YouTube - The Dynamic Enneagram - Tom Condon on Emotional Trios

 

[Chloe]

You know how some people concentrate more on personality profiles on the internet, than Jungian functions?

I think most people focus too much on enneagram profiles on the internet, than on the essential core things that make a type.

Profiles on the internet stray too far away from the core things of types, and instead go off on descriptive tangents that don't make significant or insights.

You know a good enneagram dialogue when it explores probable scenarios from motivations. When you can see or infer the logical connection between the motivation and the scenario. It says something, and it tells you WHY. It says, this is what may happen, and where it comes from. Instead of describing vaguely how something is (which usually isn't quite true) without connecting it to the source.
You know it's true, because it strikes you somehow, in a way you can't explain, because you can sense how insightful it is.

I'll give you an example of what I think is insightful;

YouTube - The Dynamic Enneagram - Tom Condon on Twos, Threes, Fours

YouTube - The Dynamic Enneagram - Tom Condon on Emotional Trios

Yes. Agree completely. I dont know why online profiles are SOOOOOOOO much different than the one in books. Onlines are only descriptive, rarely talk about motives, core fixations. Of course then you can mistype. Tom Condon is one of rare online ones who is insightful.

 

[Aleksei]

it's not. and it doesnt change. it's more complex than mbti so people are skeptic.

There's no way Enneagram is more complex than MBTI. Each Enneagram type is based on one's core motivation, which means that 1) it can be summed up to one sentence (or even one word), and 2) it can change constantly. People's motivations are the second most malleable portion of their personality, after their outwardly expressed behavior.

 

[Hopelandic]

There's no way Enneagram is more complex than MBTI. Each Enneagram type is based on one's core motivation, which means that 1) it can be summed up to one sentence (or even one word), and 2) it can change constantly. People's motivations are the second most malleable portion of their personality, after their outwardly expressed behavior.

It depends on what basis you define 'complex'.

Are we looking at the system itself? or the mechanism? if enneagram is based on the unconscious mind, I would argue that unconscious motivations of behaviour are more complex than conscious cognition.

They are two completely different systems, so it is very hard (and perhaps may not lead us anywhere) to compare them, in terms of what is more complex, deeper etc.

I agree that core types can be essentially coined in one term, though adding stackings and wings, can leave you with many more distinct types and combinations (and thus, one would have to add more than one term when accurately referencing a whole type category) than one would see with mbti, or Jung.

On your second point, can you describe the mechanism of motivations being malleable (what, how and why)? and to clarify, do you use the term 'motivations' in the general layman sense, or in the enneagram context?

 

[VagrantFarce]

There's no way Enneagram is more complex than MBTI. Each Enneagram type is based on one's core motivation, which means that 1) it can be summed up to one sentence (or even one word), and 2) it can change constantly. People's motivations are the second most malleable portion of their personality, after their outwardly expressed behavior.

I think it's going a bit far to characterise subconscious motives as "the second most malleable portion" of one's personality.

 

[Hopelandic]

I think it's going a bit far to characterise subconscious motives as "the second most malleable portion" of one's personality.

Yeah, i'd say it's the third, after hair colour and breast size

 

[angell_m]

it's not. and it doesnt change. it's more complex than mbti so people are skeptic.

There's a difference between picking out your own type, and letting a test pick out your type for you. MY test scores ARE inconsistent, and they DO have something to do with mood/environment-- nothing will change that fact.

Ps. Last night, I got 6w5 from my usual 5w4 and 6w7. Again, the test scores changed.