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[Type 8] Are Js more "8" than Ps?

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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I don't think so. It's especially easy to believe that EPs could be 8s, if not so much the IPs.
 

the state i am in

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oh definitely, especially the ifjs. ;)

T makes you more directive, unless you're introverted T first (which is still more informing, just very directly informing with its immediate "no, you're wrong"s.

Te is extroverted T. so yes. Ti can be directive if paired with an aggressive/assertive perceiving function and the person is very very pushy. still, mostly 7w8s. otherwise, Te is the most in-charge directive goal-oriented make-it-happen now of all functions. why is this crazy?

efps who are 8s are probably in super-stressed tertiary trap Se-Te Ne-Te mode.
 

BlueScreen

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8 is most common for ETJs, followed by EPs, then ITJs, then SFJs or EFJs. So it really depends on which J type. The biggest correlation between type 8 and any of the four letters is extroversion.
 

the state i am in

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do itj and esj 8s ultimately make sense? can you directly control someone or something with a vague, holistic judgment? you can indirectly manipulate, emotionally pressure, suggest, but this does not seem 8 to me. or an inner perceiving process first, in which you examine your own perceptual experience?
 

BlueScreen

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The common ones are the ETJs and EPs. I just mentioned the others because they occur to a lesser extent. Suppose any type can be almost any enneagram if they develop the right way.

Best correlation is ET. I'm guessing ESFP and ENFP get in the mix as extroverts with Te tertiary. And there are tonnes of type 8 EFPs around. IPs are the most rare for type 8, I think.
 

the state i am in

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how is esfp get things going enneagram 8 by nature? it's not in-charge, which is the definition of extroverted, directing. (initiating, directing). 7w8 with strong tertiary development, i see. but 8 dominant, before tertiary even kicks in hard? how does this make sense? it seems so contradictory.
 

BlueScreen

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ESFPs are actually the most common type 8 of the EPs. I think it is just the sensing factor. They are direct and linked into what is around them. Very action oriented, no fuss. Probably the most natural leaders of the EPs. They seem pretty well represented in leading things like sport and personal training, not that uncommon in business either.
 

entropie

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how is esfp get things going enneagram 8 by nature? it's not in-charge, which is the definition of extroverted, directing. (initiating, directing). 7w8 with strong tertiary development, i see. but 8 dominant, before tertiary even kicks in hard? how does this make sense? it seems so contradictory.

I thought the definition of extraverted was being unable to derive insight about oneself without the help of others, what of course does sound more naive than the opposite of it would be like, once one has seen it.
 

the state i am in

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ESFPs are actually the most common type 8 of the EPs. I think it is just the sensing factor. They are direct and linked into what is around them. Very action oriented, no fuss. Probably the most natural leaders of the EPs. They seem pretty well represented in leading things like sport and personal training, not that uncommon in business either.

we think of leaders differently. i know esfp 7w8s. i don't know of any esfp 8s, nor do i know of any correlation statistics, theories, etc that posit esfp 8 as more common than other ep 8s. etp 8 has some correlation, at least with self-typing.
 

slowriot

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The easy way to answer this would be yes. I consider the 3, 7 and 8 as the extraverted types, not meaning a extravert couldnt be another enneagram type.

Taken from revised "Personality Types" by Don Riso and Russ Hudson

Healthy: Self-assertive, self-confident, and strong: able to stand up for what they need and want. A resourceful, "can do" attitude and passionate inner drive. / Decisive, authoritative, and commanding: the natural leader others look up to. Take initiative, make things happen, champion people, providing, protective, and honorable, they carry others with their strength. At Their Best: Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to acheive their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.

Average: Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individuals", wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs. / Begin to dominate their enviroment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. The "boss" whose word is law: swaggering, boastful, forceful and expansive. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect. / Become highly combative and intimidating: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything becomes a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off-balance and insecure.

Unhealthy: Defying all attempts to control them, they become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right". The criminal and outlaw, renegade and con artist. Hardhearted, immoral, and invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania. Feel omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklesly overextend themselves. / If they get in danger, they might brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies.

Key Motivations: Want to be self-reliant, to resist their weakness, to have an impact on the enviroment, to assert themselves, to stay in control, to prevail over others, to be invincible.

I dont think what I bolded would be what most Ps would consider their motivation. I put what I would consider the "normal" 8 in underlined and I cant see an EXFX being that, even if they tried very hard. They might be a 7w8 with a heavy wing. An 8 in stereotype is an EXTJ, sometimes IxTJ and EXTP, and in very few cases IXTP but that would be a very unhealthy IXTP. In general mistyping yourself 8 can be very common for an unhealthy 5 btw.
 

Skyward

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False.

I always imagine '8ism' as being strongly against being ruled by someone. Both types equally share that factor since, well, humans don't like to be controlled too much.

Ps are 8ish because they desire their freedom to absorb things without obligations.

Js are 8ish because they want autonomy to fulfill their current goals. When something gets in the way they get irritated.

At least that's what I could come up with in a few seconds.
 

yenom

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For those who thinks Js are more 8 than Ps, what evidence do you have to support this?
 

slowriot

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Okay some EXTP might do that but not many, its just an minority and not what most Ps would consider their main focus if compared with other enneagram motivations. Other motivations might be more true to their nature I think.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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I have an opinion X. Please provide me evidence to the contrary, preferably by leading experts in the field, appended with a 200-page detailed summary with proper references.

Unless these requirements are met, I hold my opinion X, and X is true.
 

yenom

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I have an opinion X. Please provide me evidence to the contrary, preferably by leading experts in the field, appended with a 200-page detailed summary with proper references.

Unless these requirements are met, I hold my opinion X, and X is true.

claims without evidence to support is simply not true right?
so you say the earth is the center of the universe, yet you lack evidence to back it up other than the fact that the it appears to be so in the night sky.
Does that make your statement true?
 
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