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[Type 4] 4 is the loneliest number..

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
It's supposedly just as possible for 4s as for any other type. In a vacuum, all types have an equal chance of being healthy. However, because each culture is pre-disposed to value certain traits and characteristics, I would argue that in reality this cannot possibly be the case.

I'm not aware of wanting to be different, necessarily. Just authentic. It's easy to come to conflate the two, especially as you say, in certain cultural environments. Authentic expression is just important to me in principle and in general. I loathe formulaic arts and entertainment, not because it's popular, but because for example it takes what are sometimes good lyrics and melodies, and wastes them by setting them to a structure, instrumentation and even kind of voice and style of singing that aren't chosen because they're appropriate and add anything artistically valuable but just because they're what seem to be working during that period to shift units. I loathe them because they cheat people, especially those who are rarely exposed to anything else, out of what could be a far more evocative piece if all the elements worked together to express a coherent mood or theme. It's insulting.

This song for example: Red. Could have been fantastic. But what the hell is that drum doing. That doesn't need to be there at all and ruins it. And why are there strings repeating the melody, and why are they so gentle? It works against the weary, desperate tones produced by other elements. These are the songs that should be getting covered, the ones that aren't done right the first time.

This is the attitude I have to most aspects of life. I don't want the artistic integrity of anything to be compromised, including myself. "If you can't be a work of art, wear a work of art." Some people like everything that can express something, to express it honestly and completely, including the self. It can be hard to accept that you can be multi-faceted and still authentic. The fact that you feel different at different times is therefore distressing and confusing. That's happened to me. I didn't understand that rather than forcing myself to be one thing all the time, I should let myself explore everything and every way to be and feel, because it IS all still me, and couldn't be anything else. Your overall identity is harder to observe that way, because at any one time you're like one piece of a mosaic trying to see how you fit into the big picture and what the big picture is. You have to have faith that there is one, and that all the pieces will fall together if you let them. Like this. :)
 

PoprocksAndCoke

A Benign Tumor
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
614
MBTI Type
ENTP
I want to be different, but I'm a type two...I can't stand the popular kids or the conformists!
 

The Outsider

New member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,418
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
ronery1.jpg
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
No, not wanting to be different, but rather feeling different, at least that is how it is for me.

Regarding being ronery...

Yes, I'm so fucking alone it's ridiculous.

The closest I feel to people are to artists whom I've never met.

Will someone ever get me?

I mean, really really get me?!!?

Doubtful.

How very ironic, we are these hardcore romantics who feel so very alone. Wait, perhaps that is not very ironic at all. :p

And, on that note...

YouTube - Melody Gardot - Who will comfort me (Live)

:wub:
 

Biaxident

Charting a course
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
3,617
MBTI Type
INFP
No, not wanting to be different, but rather feeling different, at least that is how it is for me.

Regarding being ronery...

Yes, I'm so fucking alone it's ridiculous.

The closest I feel to people are to artists whom I've never met.

Will someone ever get me?

I mean, really really get me?!!?

Doubtful.

How very ironic, we are these hardcore romantics who feel so very alone. Wait, perhaps that is not very ironic at all. :p

And, on that note...

YouTube - Melody Gardot - Who will comfort me (Live)

:wub:

:hug:
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Thoughts For The Day make me want to stab something. Why is that?
 

PoprocksAndCoke

A Benign Tumor
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
614
MBTI Type
ENTP
I came over to the dark side ^^
Moi is definitely a four, after looking at the options more.
Crazy moi. It fits.
 

Bubbles

See Right Through Me
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
1,037
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w3
4s rock the casbah. I demand we have a party, and bring all the emotional baggage we want with us. :D
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Some of the most interesting in people in the world are 4s. I totally agree we should have a party.
 

Kra

Black Magic Buzzard
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
912
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
Some of the most interesting in people in the world are 4s. I totally agree we should have a party.

Nothing has contributed to the arts more than melancholy. It's really quite serene when you accept it, and see how it makes the happy moments that much better.

Melancholia is full of bittersweet beauty, and we fours have a better chance of understanding that than most. It's really quite useful to be able to see the world's beauty even in your dark moments.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Nothing has contributed to the arts more than melancholy. It's really quite serene when you accept it, and see how it makes the happy moments that much better.

Melancholia is full of bittersweet beauty, and we fours have a better chance of understanding that than most. It's really quite useful to be able to see the world's beauty even in your dark moments.
Yes.

There was a time when I couldn't speak, I couldn't scream, I couldn't cry, I could only shred paper, shred it into confetti size pieces.

There was a time when I couldn't speak, I couldn't scream, I couldn't cry, I could only throw things, anything in front of me, there was an applesauce stain on my ceiling for years, after this episode.

And, then, there was this time when I couldn't speak, I couldn't scream, I couldn't cry, I could only get in my car and drive, drive down the street, park the car, stare out the window, see nothing, feel nothing until the burns evoked relief.
 

ayoitsStepho

Twerking & Lurking
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
4,838
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I've yet to really comprehend how I'm an ISFP and a 4w3.
I suppose that just means my perception of the ennagram is confussed.
Anyone care to explain it to me? :D
 

Meadow

New member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
I love suffering and pain but hate suffering and pain.
 

Bubbles

See Right Through Me
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
1,037
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w3
I've yet to really comprehend how I'm an ISFP and a 4w3.
I suppose that just means my perception of the ennagram is confussed.
Anyone care to explain it to me? :D

Many ISFPs are 4s. I know some irl. :D
 

Synapse

New member
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
3,359
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4
I get 4w5 mostly.

http://www.enneagrambook.com/type4/

Fours are the poets and the artists. Well, fours are the starving artists. Sometimes, you know, you have to starve to get to the real stuff.

Fours are the masters of the emotional realm. Fours seem to be old souls. They have been around the block with heartache and even if they still get caught up in it they know there way around.

Some books say that fours are the jealous type. That’s bullshit. Fours don’t want what you have, they want something of their own… but it might be the same thing that you have.

You see fours are always out looking for how to make life better. That’s the thing- the aperture on the vision is so large that fours are trying to find ways to make LIFE better.

Fours can seem sort of down to others. Fours can seem sort of sad, but they really aren’t that sad at all. Once you get to know them, fours know a depth of feeling that none of the other types can TOUCH.

Fours are dag smat on the part of the enneagram that coincides with emotions. Yup, the thinking types see no logic in the four’s moves and the body types think fours are airy-fairy.

Fours are often lethally embarrassed. Or self-concious. Or both.

But that’s OK because despite what anyone might think, the four knows exactly what’s going on.

Four with a Five Wing: The Bohemian
Healthy 4w5’s brings profound creativity and insights of the intrapsychic sort. Their emotions are more under-the-surface than 4w3’s, and more private modes of communication (such as writing) are preferred. They have intellectual as well as emotional insights and can often synthesize experiences into something intensely personal yet timeless.

Famous 4w5’s
Johnny Depp, Kurt Cobain, Bob Dylan, Virginia Woolf, “Lin Daiyu”, Søren Kierkegaard, John Keats, Sylvia Plath, Jack Kerouac

Four with a Three Wing: The Aristocrat
Healthy 4w3’s can be both successful and inspired. They leave a personal touch in all the works they do, while maintaining some connection with the larger world. They enjoy public attention but are also committed to private self-exploration.

Famous 4w3’s
Prince, Michael Jackson, Judy Garland, “Blanche DuBois”, “Madame Bovary”, Oscar Wilde, Marcel Proust, Gamart, Crov
 

briochick

half-nut member
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
633
MBTI Type
eNFP
Enneagram
;)
Instinctual Variant
sx
I hate that Jonny Depp is a 4w5. I don't want to be connected with him, because everyone loves him and he's weird. He's not sexy. He's skinny. I'm weird and most people don't love me.
I like melancholy things.
I like Derek Webb songs.
I think a lot and then want to tell people all the things I think.
I am defined by my self-destruction and my mediocrity. Fear of being special, need to be special. Ridiculous. I should be better than this.
;-p
 

speculative

Feelin' FiNe
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
927
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.

Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true—or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now.
(from The Wisdom of the Enneagram, p. 180-182)

When we carry too much baggage in our hands, it is hard to take candy from strangers because our hands are full. What baggage can you let go today, 4s?
 
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