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  1. #91


    Quote Originally Posted by tetraphobia View Post
    I know several enneagram authors and teachers personally, including Riso and Hudson.
    Hudson stresses that in the US especially, he never believes it when someone tells him they're a 4 until he's had time to feel them out a little bit. People 'want' to be 4s in many Western countries - they identify with feelings of 'otherness', depression, and individualism.

    I am a 4 and find the faux 4ness annoying.
    You forgot elitism.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  2. #92
    Senior Member
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    Jan 2009


    elitism . . . ha ha noigmn! so true, so true

  3. #93
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Aug 2008


    I'm type 4 and type 4 only

  4. #94
    Senior Member
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    Jan 2009


    the whole "goal" with enneagram is to eventually lose our personality fixations. to be no type or typeless . . . our enneagram type is just the very sad mask we wear or have formed through how we learned to cope with stimuli (or lack thereof) from our environment in utero, through our birth canal experiences, through our toddlerhood etc. etc. Our enneagram type is kind of like our ego's reaction or our ego's coping mechanism for what we've been through. I hope this makes sense . . . this is at least what i've gathered through my "studies." enneagram is such a great tool . . . know thyself first

  5. #95
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    Jan 2009


    ennegram = learn about thyself, know thyself & then get rid of thyself . . . no "self' = no pain and or suffering . . . to transcend one's "self" . . . to be beyond the concept of self, is to be beyond the concept of "other" ie. we are all ONE . . . oh, how darn beautiful i'm going to cry . . . sorry to get all deep & philosophical on ya'll . . . not even sure if this is relevant to the discussion?

  6. #96
    Member PureWhispers's Avatar
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    Jun 2008
    4w3 sx


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    If you give me something good, I will fuck it up.

    If you give me something fucked up, I will fix it.
    Story of my life.
    MBTI: ENFJ | Enneagram: 4w5

  7. #97
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Jan 2008


    My stats:

    You are most likely a type 4.

    Your wings seem to be balanced.

    Type 4 - 11.7
    Type 2 - 9
    Type 9 - 7
    Type 8 - 7
    Type 5 - 5.7
    Type 3 - 5.3

    Wing 4w5 - 14.6
    Wing 4w3 - 14.4
    Wing 2w3 - 11.7
    Wing 5w4 - 11.6
    Wing 3w4 - 11.2
    Wing 9w8 - 10.5
    Wing 8w9 - 10.5
    Wing 2w1 - 9.9
    Wing 3w2 - 9.8
    Wing 9w1 - 7.9
    Wing 8w7 - 7.9
    Wing 5w6 - 6.7

    General information:

    The Enneagram Institute: Books PT

    Personality Types by Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson

    Enneagram Type 4 - The Individualist

    Enneagram Type 4 - The Individualist

    Identity seekers, who feel unique and different
    Fours are emotionally complex and highly sensitive. They long to be understood and appreciated for their authentic selves, but easily feel misunderstood and unappreciated

    They are emotionally centered and spend much of their lives immersed in their internal mental landscapes, where they feel free to cultivate and analyse their feelings. A desire to manifest this internal world often leads Fours to an interest in the arts, and some do become actual artists. Whether artistic or not, however, most Fours are aesthetically sensitive and concerned with self-expression and self-revelation, whether it be in the clothes they wear or in the overall nature of their often idiosyncratic lifestyles.

    Fours are prone to fantasizing about a savior who will rescue them from their unhappiness.

    From a very early age Fours felt singled out by others. They see the various personal qualities others have that are not given to them, which causes them to focus on absence, on differences and on personal alienation. They are the gray ducklings poked fun of by their bright-feathered peers and abandoned by their parents. They are the orphans and outcasts.

    In time, however, they began to feel that they are singled out for a reason. They interpreted their alienation and suffering as evidence of their finer sensibilities. Even their personal defects, which in the beginning tormented them, are now worn as marks of pride. In their psychic recesses, however, there remains an emptiness longing to be filled by another and it is that emptiness, that tension between lack and fulfillment, which drives Fours in a search for meaning and personal identity. Unfortunately, given their fixations on fantasy and comparison with others, this search can often feel and become fruitless

    Fours with a dominant Five wing

    When healthy bring profound creativity and insights of an intrapsychic kind. Their emotions are more under the surface than Fours with dominant Three wing and more private modes of communication (such as writing) are preferred. They have intellectual as well as emotional insights and can often synthesize experiences into something intensely personal yet timeless.

    When more average they are devoted to cultivation of a personal worldview, often by philosophical or artistic means. They are more likely than those with a dominant Three wing to be reclusive and out of touch with the greater social world and to compensate they may adopt unconventional or eccentric ways of life. They can be purposefully obscure and enigmatic in their expressions and then have an elitist and contemptuous view of those who failed to understand them. They tend to withdraw for prolonged periods under stress which can leave them further isolated. As a result they are prone to hallucinatory states and total alienation.

    When unhealthy they can inhabit a terrifying fantasy-world of their own creation. Their emotional torments are turned inward, causing severe depression and self-destructive thoughts. When average they may romanticize death but when unhealthy they may plunge into it.

    Enneagram Personality Type 4: The Artist

    Motivated by the need to understand and to be understood, you desire experiences that are rich with feeling and meaning. You may find it easier to deal with painful emotions than to deal with the tedium of daily routine. You have the temperament of an artist and long to freely express yourself. You feel your emotions deeply and are not afraid to go emotionally where others fear to tread. This includes having an exquisite, intuitive ability to distinguish between subtle emotions that others often miss. Painfully self-conscious, you are often overly focused on how different you are from others. A true humanitarian, you have a natural passion for protest. At times intense and contrary, you are not afraid to think for yourself and voice your point of view

    Nostalgic by nature, you often focus on past experiences. This can lead you to deeper insights or to downward spirals of melancholy and/or painful unresolved feelings. Craving ideal circumstances or love, you often ruminate on what is missing and perceived to be important. Your tendency towards self-absorption is both an asset and liability. It can lead you to deep personal insights that can benefit everyone while feeding your self-deprecating sense of humor; but it can also make you appear to be self centered and disinterested in others.

    When you step out of the river of your emotions, you can bring forth your many talents into the world and express them in a way that is extraordinary and original. You are like the lotus flower growing in the mud that is able to transform emotionally painful experiences into fertilizer for personal growth. Attuned to feelings, you have an uncommon sensitivity when it comes to dealing with suffering. You are not afraid to hear about someone elses troubles, and you can be a great friend to anyone in emotional pain.


    You need be seen as artistic, gifted and accomplished. You focus on your individuality and on carving your own distinct image. You need to express your deep feelings and want others to validate your emotions. Whether you are organizing your living space to reflect your refined tastes or engaging in an artistic pursuit, it is essential for your sense of well being that you express your creativity.


    You avoid feeling lost, disorientated and without personal significance, meaning or direction. You also avoid appearing inadequate, defective or flawed. Most importantly, you have a hidden fear of being emotionally cut off and abandoned. You avoid affectation and anything dull, ordinary, ugly, vulgar, inauthentic or distasteful.


    Your greatest strengths are your deep intuition, creativity and ability to transform painful life experiences into opportunities for profound growth and healing. This enables you to identify what is missing, and like a knight on a quest, you search until you find it or create it. Astute about human nature, you believe that everyone is an individual and that all emotions have value. Profound and insightful, you have an uncanny knack for transforming the dull and the ordinary into the exciting and extraordinary. You are able to see and appreciate what is truly unique, special and rare.


    Your vice is envy. You can be self-absorbed and temperamental, and tend to over-personalize all life experiences and interactions with others. Capable of being emotionally manipulating or overly critical, you are often unaware of the impact your emotional nature has on others. Remember, that you are like a mystic who sees the river beneath the river and are not just the swamp of your emotion


    Your attention goes to searching for meaning, noticing what is missing, feelings of melancholy and nostalgia, and longing for the unavailable. You appreciate the special, the humane and the beautiful. You like to put your personal signature on everything that you do. Your refined tastes make you a great critic and someone who appreciates the truly exceptional.

    Spiritual Path

    Your spiritual journey is to connect to original source and create true meaning. Spiritual growth will come to you when you are able to balance your emotional nature with temperance and equanimity. Keep your powerful emotions in check, and you can create the kind of life that you want.


    Dont dwell on the past, and remember to enjoy the pleasure that can be found in each moment. When you have gratitude and the courage to move through your fear of rejection and share your talents, others will honor your original and creative contributions.


    If you are the Enneagram Type 4 with the 3 Wing
    , you desire to appear genteel. You see you yourself as fiery, passionate, expressive, energetic, beautiful, and kind.

    If you are the Enneagram Type 4 with the 5 Wing
    , you desire to be avant-garde. You see yourself as original, sincere, mysterious, subtle, artistic and independent.
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #98


    I found I'm a type 7. So am checking out of four realm. I tend to go a similar way to a four, but for other reasons, and search the darkness, but with a different focus.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  9. #99
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Hello fellow fours, how are you this evening?
    Unique with a touch of creative and sentimental this evening.

    Awesome, massive 4 thread you've got going on here.

    Not sure what to say at this time, so I'll post some poetry that may be 4-ish that I have penned. (Linked some because some of it is spacing-intensive.)

    You Know by ~speculative-one on deviantART
    The Rock by ~speculative-one on deviantART
    Floating by ~speculative-one on deviantART

    I Went Ahead

    I went ahead, and my self followed after.
    Weaving patterns in the air with hollow hands
    And my eyes reflecting a web of intricacies,
    It followed behind, like a cringing shadow.
    A chameleon tasting the air with leath'ry tongue,
    I pushed the mushy pink probe before me and waited...
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"

  10. #100
    Senior Member
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    Jun 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Awesomeblossom, as do I. I must say, that I also happen to find prententious "high on their horses" people annoying as well!!!


    Yesterday evening I watched the show DogTown and just bawled my eyes out, and then I saw an episode of Breaking Bad and engaged in yet another fit of bawling. :/

    I don't know what it is, or why it is, that I am so attracted to suffering?!?!?!

    It is weird, and I can't help it!!!

    When I was a child I had a morbid and moral obsession with the Holocaust, sociopathy and torture, and as I grew older I became evermore affected by what appears/appeared to be the massive suffering inherent to life, both human and animal alike.

    Gah, sadness, so much sadness!!!

    Alone, scared, suffering and alone, a state that no living animal should endure, but, alas, many, if not most of us do, at least at some time in our lives.

    Love, to feel loved, to feel understood, to care and be cared for.

    To matter to someone!!!
    I'm glad this thread was resurrected!

    I'm an INTP 4w5. That was expressed as a rarity in another area of the forum, so I've been looking into it a bit more. 4 resonates with me very strongly. So does INTP. I've always tested as and related to the most as an INTP, with the occasional slip in of INFP or INTJ, for the last 10 years. I think that INTP's do a lot of thinking (obviously) and try to understand systems. Maybe my system is to try to understand what I can't categorize logically: emotion and feeling. I've always had a drive to understand my own mind and how it works. I've always searched for depth in my relationships because I honestly just need that connection out of another human being. I have always had this desire to be seen for who I am and appreciated as such. Not exalted or anything like that.. just simply seen and loved for it.

    I do withdraw into myself a lot. The intense moments in my mind and what I think about a lot is usually my deeper emotions and feelings, towards another person or lack there of. I've wondered about this at times, because doesn't that go against being an INTP? I also try to understand other people and get a grasp on how they process the world. That's probably what drew me towards MBTI to begin with and why I love this forum...

    I guess I'm starting to embrace the fact that T and F for me is way more interconnected and tied to each other.

    Any other 4's or 4w5's have any insight for an INTP?

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