[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] Overexpression and underexpression in the Feeling Triad

[Fivewingfour]

In Personality Types, Riso and Hudson dedicate a sub-chapter to the Enneagram's dialectical approach.

"In each Triad, one type has overdeveloped the characteristic faculty of the Triad, another has underdeveloped the faculty, and a third is most out of touch with the faculty. When we apply this pattern to the types in the Feeling Triad, we see that Twos overexpress their feelings, emphasizing only their positive emotions while repressing their negative ones. Threes are most out of touch with their feelings, projecting an image to others as a substitute. And Fours underexpress their feelings, revealing themselves through some form or art of aesthetic living."

Online I found the below table that presents what R&H say about each type.
Could this be wrong? The Two's defense mechanism is repression of their feelings, particularly negative feelings (such as hostility) because that might stop others loving them or make them look needy. R&H also write "[Twos] focus their feelings on others, and as a result they might have difficulty connecting with what their feelings are telling them." Fours, on the other hand, are of all the types of course most in touch with their feelings and emotions.

Confusion might be caused by the ego boundaries of the types, as described in The Wisdom of the Enneagram:
- Twos: self-image presented outwardly to others
- Threes: self-image presented both to self and to others
- Fours: self-image presented inwardly to themselves
Twos direct their energy outward and Fours direct their energy inward: this might be confused with the idea that Twos overexpress and Fours underexpress their feelings.

In the Instinctive Triad, Eights turn outward and overexpress their instincts, and Ones turn inward and underexpress their instincts. In the Thinking Triad, Fives turn inward and overexpress thinking, and Sevens turn outward and underexpress thinking. I think feeling is primarily an inward faculty and the types in this Triad should therefore follow the pattern of the Thinking Triad: Twos turn outward and underexpress their feelings, and Fours turn inward and overexpress their feelings.

I'm new to the forum and I don't know if this has been discussed before and if I'm posting in the right place

 

[Luminous]

From Knowing your personality in depth with Enneagram - Mind Transformations

"Twos: [Overexpresses feelings, expressing only positive feelings, repressing the rest]"
"Fours: [Painfully self-conscious, underexpresses feelings by withholding direct expression]"

From Thinking/Feeling/Doing - NOT Head/heart/"gut"
"For example, in the feeling triad, 2s overexpress--they wear their heart on their sleeve, and they're all gushy with hugs, sweetness, and seduction. Fours, in contrast, underexpress feeling--they bottle it up inside as if it's too precious to part with or share (and actually they identify with their feelings to the point where their feelings are what they believe makes them so special and unique)."

FromEnneagram-Spirituality: The Nine Enneagram Types
"One of the most outwardly emotional types, Type Twos overexpress their feelings, particularly love and sadness. When average to unhealthy, Twos need to be needed, and will praise and flatter others so that others will come to like them and rely on them."

"Fours are so identified with their feelings that they believe they ARE their feelings... The problem is that fixated fours don’t really feel their feelings. They create all the drama precisely to avoid feeling the real pain of their lives, and so are as shallow as every other fixated type...
When healthy, fours learn to stay with the ordinariness of their real feelings – to actually feel the real pain, grief, sadness that comes with living. As a result they are also able to feel happiness and joy. Healthy fours learn to stop identifying with their feelings, gain some objectivity, and be ordinary. "

From The Centers * EnneaSite by David Gray
"2 – over-expresses positive aspects of the Heart Center at the expense of being real (false contact)
3 – most disconnected from their own heart, difficulty knowing directly what they want that is theirs alone
4 – Emotion-based loops primarily internalized (in a feel-think-feel ping pong)… under-expresses positive contactful Heart"

Interesting discussion topic! Thanks for posting it and welcome to the forum! I'm not sure this has come out as clearly as I'd like, but...

I don't think it's wrong in that average Twos outwardly overexpress sincere positive emotions, while repressing their needs. And they may well break at some point and express their dissatisfaction and negative emotion at unmet needs. While some of the emotions are underexpressed, some are very enthusiastically expressed.

Average Fours largely identify with their emotional state, but it's a crafted state of emotion in that internally, they're thinking and daydreaming to get themselves into or keep themselves in that preferred emotional state. They want their identity to be different, they're actively individuating themselves, and they need to be a separate sort of alien - that means they're going to reject and repress the ordinary authentic feelings that everyone has for the ones that are crafted to be deeper and special. Their other true emotions are underexpressed.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

A 4s feeling states are amplified internally, not crafted. They genuinely identify with their feelings, which are in fact real feelings, but the problem isn't "I'm making up exaggerated feelings so others will think I'm special and pay attention to me". It's actually "I'm stuck feeling these intense feelings on my own, and I must analyze them to understand myself. Through immersion in my feelings, I will find what it is that I'm missing... what it is that I need to find that I don't already possess... and until I find and acquire what it is that I am missing, I will be incomplete or flawed compared to others. Surely others appear more whole and content than I am. I am different from others in this sense because I don't possess that ease of Being. I don't know how to communicate these feelings to others and it's safer to keep them to myself and live through them vicariously because it's more familiar and comforting. When I am immersed in my feeling states, I have a difficult time acting upon my dreams and am unable to manifest my dreams and desired identity in the real world."

Essentially, they are stuck between reality and an ideal, but they don't realize that that's normal, and that's where "special" or "unique" comes in, but it's a pained differentiation instead of an "I am the most beautiful snowflake". I don't know why everyone and their mom misinterprets it as the latter.

While some 4s may in fact dramatize a Moodâ„¢ to get attention or theatrically differentiate themselves, or counter the pain of lack and envy through hateful competition, it's much more accurate to assume the above as being closer to baseline. The real mistake a 4 makes is to assume that the things they feel aren't felt by most everyone at some point. They develop an inferiority complex, getting stuck there, imagining scenarios in which they express the things they cannot express (conversations that never happen, their Dream Self getting up on stage singing that song, the romantic partner they yearn to be "found" by, their vision of an unconventional lifestyle of travel or living off grid so they can explore their passion for writing and painting).

For better understanding, compare to 9s, whom also turn inward and fantasize, but 9s prefer smooth sailing, whereas 4s are comfortable with the full spectrum of human emotion and expression, so their fantasies can be pleasant, or painful and dark. For a 4, it's whatever evokes an emotional reaction rather than a numbing from Real Lifeâ„¢ pain, or it can be an evasion from the mundanity of reality. 4s can dive into that pain to explore for answers about themselves, or to remain stuck (subconsciously) in emotion states because it somehow, in a twisted and counterproductive way, temporarily satisfies a painful sense of lack.

I still feel like I'm missing something when I try to explain 4s, but hopefully that helps a bit.

Also, it's important to keep in mind the potential influence of fixes, so a 94x may for example have varied fantasies, but the purpose of the fantasy won't be primarily identity based most of the time.

I might come back to this as I sort of spat it out quickly.

 

[Fivewingfour]

Thank you both for your replies! These are really interesting points!

Luminous - many thanks for gathering and sharing all of those quotes. It definitely makes sense to say that Twos outwardly overexpress their feelings to others while Fours to outwardly underexpress them, appearing aloof.

My doubt may be clearer if I use the words 'overdeveloped' and 'underdeveloped', which seem to be used interchangeably with over- and underexpressed in the paragraph from Riso and Hudson I posted. (Maybe they shouldn't be used as synonyms and that's where my confusion lies, but if they are, I might be right that the cause of what to me looks like a mis-classification is that the word 'expression' gets identified solely with a kind of outward articulation - the word 'manifestation' might be better.)

It's difficult to see that Fours have underdeveloped their emotions (sounds like a contradiction in terms!) and that Twos have overdeveloped their emotions (Twos focus on the feelings of others, while they themselves can be full of unacknowledged emotional needs).

That would be like saying that Fives have underdeveloped their thinking because they don't often share their thoughts, and that Sevens have overdeveloped their thinking because they share their thoughts all the time. That is clearly not correct, and the true manifestation of feeling seems to me as internal as thinking (in contrast to the manifestation of instincts of the Instinctual Triad, which are connected to action (doing) and directed at the environment). Sharing emotions with others is not feeling, just like voicing thoughts is not thinking.

The line between Two and Four represents that "when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), prideful, self-deceptive Twos become more self-nurturing and emotionally aware, like healthy Fours" (quote from the Enneagram Institute, emphasis mine).

Of course, overdeveloping feelings can be as problematic as underdeveloping them, which for Fours in lower ranges can lead to negative tendencies like fantasizing, dramatizing, or exaggerating their emotions, which as Peter Deadpan explained are however still real in origin. I guess that Twos might actually be more likely than Fours to 'craft' emotions by internalizing others' feelings, putting away negative emotions, or constructing sentiments they think others will like.

 

[Fivewingfour]

Thank you both for your replies! These are really interesting points!

Luminous - many thanks for gathering and sharing all of those quotes. It definitely makes sense to say that Twos outwardly overexpress their feelings to others while Fours to outwardly underexpress them, appearing aloof.

My doubt may be clearer if I use the words 'overdeveloped' and 'underdeveloped', which seem to be used interchangeably with over- and underexpressed in the paragraph from Riso and Hudson I posted. (Maybe they shouldn't be used as synonyms and that's where my confusion lies, but if they are, I might be right that the cause of what to me looks like a mis-classification is that the word 'expression' gets identified solely with a kind of outward articulation - the word 'manifestation' might be better.)

It's difficult to see that Fours have underdeveloped their emotions (sounds like a contradiction in terms!) and that Twos have overdeveloped their emotions (Twos focus on the feelings of others, while they themselves can be full of unacknowledged emotional needs).

That would be like saying that Fives have underdeveloped their thinking because they don't often share their thoughts, and that Sevens have overdeveloped their thinking because they share their thoughts all the time. That is clearly not correct, and the true manifestation of feeling seems to me as internal as thinking (in contrast to the manifestation of instincts of the Instinctual Triad, which are connected to action (doing) and directed at the environment). Sharing emotions with others is not feeling, just like voicing thoughts is not thinking.

The line between Two and Four represents that "when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), prideful, self-deceptive Twos become more self-nurturing and emotionally aware, like healthy Fours" (quote from the Enneagram Institute).

Of course, overdeveloping feelings can be as problematic as underdeveloping them, which for Fours in lower ranges can lead to negative tendencies like fantasizing, dramatizing, or exaggerating their emotions, which as Peter Deadpan explained are however still real in origin. Twos might actually be more likely than Fours to 'craft' emotions by internalizing others' feelings, putting away negative emotions, or constructing sentiments they think others will like.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I'm still planning on coming back to this and zooming out so I can touch on all three types, and also attempt to remove some of my bias with type 4 (try to be as instinctually neutral as possible), but I want to add something quickly.

Ennea-type 2 is actually the type known for histrionics. I think the main difference between the drama of types 2 and 4 is that type 2 sort of demands attention (whether that be conscious or not), and type 4 sort of "pouts" for it (withdraws and hopes to get it).

Good discussion, by the way... the forum needs more of this.

 

[Luminous]

Thank you both for your replies! These are really interesting points!

Luminous - many thanks for gathering and sharing all of those quotes. It definitely makes sense to say that Twos outwardly overexpress their feelings to others while Fours to outwardly underexpress them, appearing aloof.

My doubt may be clearer if I use the words 'overdeveloped' and 'underdeveloped', which seem to be used interchangeably with over- and underexpressed in the paragraph from Riso and Hudson I posted. (Maybe they shouldn't be used as synonyms and that's where my confusion lies, but if they are, I might be right that the cause of what to me looks like a mis-classification is that the word 'expression' gets identified solely with a kind of outward articulation - the word 'manifestation' might be better.)

It's difficult to see that Fours have underdeveloped their emotions (sounds like a contradiction in terms!) and that Twos have overdeveloped their emotions (Twos focus on the feelings of others, while they themselves can be full of unacknowledged emotional needs).

That would be like saying that Fives have underdeveloped their thinking because they don't often share their thoughts, and that Sevens have overdeveloped their thinking because they share their thoughts all the time. That is clearly not correct, and the true manifestation of feeling seems to me as internal as thinking (in contrast to the manifestation of instincts of the Instinctual Triad, which are connected to action (doing) and directed at the environment). Sharing emotions with others is not feeling, just like voicing thoughts is not thinking.

The line between Two and Four represents that "when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), prideful, self-deceptive Twos become more self-nurturing and emotionally aware, like healthy Fours" (quote from the Enneagram Institute).

Of course, overdeveloping feelings can be as problematic as underdeveloping them, which for Fours in lower ranges can lead to negative tendencies like fantasizing, dramatizing, or exaggerating their emotions, which as Peter Deadpan explained are however still real in origin. Twos might actually be more likely than Fours to 'craft' emotions by internalizing others' feelings, putting away negative emotions, or constructing sentiments they think others will like.

The primary defense mechanisms of the 4 is introjection, "Instead of repelling critical information and negative experiences that can cause a person anxiety or pain, individuals introject the information – that is, they fully absorb, internalize, and incorporate these data into their sense of self." Defense Mechanism: Guardians of our Type-based Ego Structure | Type 4 - The Enneagram in Business So I don't think the idea that 2s do more of that than 4s is accurate. And the 2s taking on the emotions of others is no more crafting than is what the 4 does. Of course, 4s are likely to argue with that... because it goes against the idea that they are the most authentic of the heart types.

This paragraph sums up what I was attempting to get at in my earlier post,

But what happens if and when Fours begin to feel optimistic or when they experience themselves as ordinary or even boring in some way. Here’s when their defense mechanism of introjection comes to their aid. With a reservoir of negatively information about themselves – the by-product of their continuously introjection of real or perceived information about themselves – they can re-adjust their inner lives to re-experiencing themselves as finely and uniquely tuned to the emotional ups and downs of life, to being a person so deep in feeling that others seem superficial and out of touch by contrast. And back they are to their dynamic of envy ¬ feeling better than or not-as good-as and melancholy, their fixation and passion once again operating in a mutually reinforcing, synchronized loop.

I think the key here is that they were looking at this in terms of positive feelings, and incorporating the Hornevian groups of assertive, compliant, and withdrawn (and possibly the Harmonic groups of positive outlook, competency, and reactive even though that isn't directly mentioned in that passage of the book.) 2s focus on, have developed more, and express the positive emotions, while 4s have underdeveloped, underexpressed, and attempt not to focus on the positive. If you reframe it as the negative, you could flip that. In that same passage in the book, they reference Freud and his oral, anal, and phallic stages, and I think that's just bunk... so I think this section is somewhat more theoretical than much of the rest, even if it's all theory.

 

[Fivewingfour]

Thank you again for your replies! Your ideas in combination with a lecture I watched of Richard Rohr gave me some new thoughts. I’ll share some quotes of that lecture at the end of this post as well.

First, I think it was very useful to highlight the distinction between positive and negative feelings. Of course, the Feeling Triad is also called the Heart Triad, which has a connotation of positivity and connection with others. Negative feelings occur when the heart is damaged or broken. We can easily regard Twos as having overdeveloped their hearts, opening them up for everyone though forgetting themselves, while Fours have underdeveloped their heart capacity, keeping it to themselves.

I earlier described feeling as an inward faculty. However, I guess that the reason that humans evolved having feelings is for social survival: emotions help us to form and maintain groups in which we are safer, to take care of each other, to navigate our relationships, and so on. This is what the Two uses their feelings for. The reason we have feelings is not to keep them to ourselves and to endlessly dwell on them within the confines of our hearts and minds.

In this way, Fours have underdeveloped their feelings in that they have not developed them to be used in the way they are intended for. They are out of touch with the underlying why of having feelings. (When replacing ‘feelings’ for ‘instincts/anger’ or ‘thinking/fear’, I think the same can be said about Ones and Sevens. Richard Rohr calls these three types the ‘conflicted ones’ - see below.)

My guess is that Fours place so much importance on their emotions that they come to see it as having intrinsic value, while actually feelings might need to be regarded as a means to an end, as they were designed to help us survive. Fours, especially in lower ranges, can be really self-absorbed and do not engage much with other people, but if that is a consequence of their profound emotional world, emotions have completely backfired on them. Their feelings are then not anymore an asset for survival, but might at some point actually be the death of them.

If you talk about the Twos' and Fours' need for attention and how they ask for it (demanding versus pouting), we see that Twos do this in a productive way by going out and helping others (and expecting something in return), while Fours hope for you to come to them (they want to be ‘rescued’ as R&H describe it). But the fact that all humans want attention and love in one way or another is suggesting that it has an evolutionary advantage, and in the Twos and the Threes we can see this advantage clearly: this desire leads them to help others or accomplish great things. Both behaviors support the group or species as a whole. The strategy of Fours to get attention might be effective, but it has no similarly advantageous side-effects, thereby in fact defeating its purpose and raison d'être.

I am not a Four, so I might be making things up here! I’d be very interested to hear what ‘real’ Fours think (or feel, hah) about it.

—

The Enneagram: The Discernment Of Spirits (Introduction) - YouTube
This is the lecture of Richard Rohr on YouTube. It has some useful theoretical concepts which informed the above thoughts. He calls the number in the middle of each triad the one of pure compulsion; the preceding number is the obvious one; and the following number is the conflicted one. Here are some organized quotes from the lecture.

- The middle number, the center point, is pure compulsion (Three, Six, Nine). They are actually most masked from themselves. They have the hardest time getting out of it in a certain way because they are so totally enmeshed in it. Life is a constant shockwave of heart for the Three, a constant shockwave of body/gut for the Nine, a constant shockwave of head trips for the Six. They are the three shock points.

- The preceding one is the obvious compulsion, the obvious energy, the focused form of the compulsion (Two, Five, Eight). Utterly committed to heart, head, or gut. It’s so visible: you can pretty much pick them out. The Two is obvious feeling, the Five is obvious head, the Eight is obvious body. Eight is so trapped in his body, doesn’t know how to get out of its instinctual self. He takes it out on you, literally, because it’s too much. Five is such a head person. The Twos even talk with seductive, sweet voices. For them, all of life is a seduction game. You see a Two and you just know that they are filled with feelings. They’re obviously Heart people.

- The following number is the conflicted one (One, Four, Seven). The One is the conflicted gut. A constant shockwave of reality, it’s too much. Ones will try to reform it and fix it. There is a conflict: fighting the gut response to reality. Whereas the Eight just goes with his gut response, for good and for evil. And looking at a Seven, you’d never think they’re a head/fear person. Cleverly disguised: refusing to see the downside of anything. The Four, as a conflicted number, has created a little disguise and a little game, even from themselves. (…) You don’t understand a Four until you know that the metaphor is actually more real than the reality. The rightly chosen phrase or word is better than the thing that the word points to. I don’t care about the thing in itself, the Ding an sich, it’s just the symbol. They die for symbols. They just love this world of fantasy because it’s their only way… you see, the symbol can control that endless floating feeling in their life.