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  1. #1
    (h)angry snek parent ThisName's Avatar
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    Default Type 4 and experiencing love/obsessing

    After months of procrastinating... I am finally writing about this thing I actually originally signed up for.

    I know, how cliché, type four and love. A few months ago, I went through a breakup. We were together for six months.
    But there just were some things I couldn't place... Until I read about my enneagram type. At first I was relieved, I am not that weird after all. But then I started to think about it... Is it going to be this way forever? Because even though it felt good at first, to get that recognition, it doesn't seem like fun at all. I started to wonder if I'll ever be able to have a 'normal' relationship, to actually be able to feel, to experience love, to live in the moment.

    To give you all some background information and what my 'struggles' were.

    I met this girl via Tinder (original I know). She lived at least four hours away from me. We both don't have a car or a drivers license so that already made it difficult to begin with, trains are expensive as hell (we live in a different country) and we're both in uni/college so we didn't see each other very often.

    So we started talking and we just clicked immediately. We could talk about everything. Sometimes it took us about an hour to write a message because we just talked about so many things.
    When we first met each other she stayed over for three nights. It was exciting to meet someone new, even though I am awkward as hell I really felt the rush. Before we met I was of course already idolizing the hell out of her (we were talking with each other for at least two months before we met). I was thinking about her constantly, having 'internal' conversations 'with her' in my head and that kind of stuff.
    My whole world rotated around her. She was the only one who could make me happy. I was always waiting for a message from her.

    Here comes the part which I feel/felt kinda bad about.
    Of course I sort of knew that she was in love with me (even tho I denied it at the same time because I didn't want to get hurt/look like a fool). Based on the things she said it was clear that she was going to tell me this the next time we would see each other. I was really looking forward to it. I couldn't stop thinking about it. About how amazing it would feel. No need to say that I was excited and had something new to think about.
    And then she told me... But I didn't feel a fucking thing. I was shocked by my own reaction (or more lack of), I felt like a piece of shit. Because it felt like I had to lie to her, that I felt the same while I actually (suddenly) didn't anymore. And lying isn't in my nature, it goes against my morals.

    The truth is that I really did feel the same for a while. The thought of her not loving me even made me anxious and depressed. Until she told me that she liked me. Everything suddenly disappeared. (And I started to worry about 'when it would end')
    I still idolized her every single day, that never stopped. When she was gone I was back at it again, waiting for her. I even missed her when she was gone (to the point of crying and aching), and I don't quickly miss people so I 'accepted' that maybe I experience love in a different way. (Tho I really felt like an asshole towards her, that she deserved better etc. I felt bad for myself too because I didn't feel anything even though it is one of the things in life I want the most, to experience love, to find the 'perfect partner', someone I connect with on a deeper level)

    But after a while it became unhealthy. She was busy with her internship and sometimes it took her days to respond, she turned into a workaholic, forgetting about the world around her, forgetting about me. She was obsessed with school and getting her diploma. I was obsessed with her.
    It's an understatement when I say that it made me feel bad. I felt like my world was gone, I could barely function anymore. More towards the end of our relationship it even got to the point that I couldn't sleep anymore and I started taking sleeping pills. I was in the middle of my exams. I was stressed and feeling anxious. But not about my exams like most normal people would, but about her (not responding).
    I could only think about how bad our relationship was going. I started imagining how she would break up with me, about how something bad would happen to me and then she would feel guilty, about how I would break up with her, about how everything was going to be fine again, about what I would do to myself, I had thousands of conversations with her in my head... Whilst continuously checking my messages and checking if she'd posted something on social media.

    When I think about it it actually sounds so petty. What kind of fool are you, waiting all day long for someone to respond? Not being able to feel happy or to continue with your day only because you're waiting for a message. That's literally what I did, no need to say that it drove me crazy. (And yes we sure talked about this, she owns up her 'mistakes', her behaviour, she has issues too)

    Though the ironic part was... The times I did see her in person, I never had this 'butterfly feeling' people talk about. I felt comfortable being with her, yes. But I never had such intense feeling for her. But when we were apart from each other I could go back to romanticizing everything again.
    Though at the same time it felt so 'surreal', I was in a relationship? Sometimes I still can't believe that I actually was in a relationship, that someone truly loved me.

    Long story short. She broke up with me because she realized she couldn't give me what I 'needed' and she felt bad about that, she's too busy with school, she can't change her behavior because of the environment she's in right now. And the distance plays a part too of course.

    When we were still together the idea of her breaking up with me destroyed me. I seriously thought I would loose it, that I would finally commit suicide (ok sounds dramatic now, but I have always had suicidal tendencies) or that I would at least harm myself.
    Turns out that I finally felt peace when she broke up with me. (Though it didn't last for long but that's another story) I felt relieved.

    So yes, even though I rationally know that we don't belong together. I still 'miss' her. I still think about her every single day. At first I had hope that we would get back together again (because we're still fine with each other and she said 'But we do not know the future right?'). I know now that that's not what I want though I am still longing... Thinking back about our good times together, getting to know her, writing these long-ass messages, it still hurts.

    Now my question is; what does it take for a four to get into a healthy relationship? Or to remain in a healthy mental state whilst being in one. To stop idolizing people so much?
    Because sometimes I think; the only way to get over her (completely) is to find someone new to obsess over. But I know that this is unhealthy... This 'obsessing over people' thing has already ruined at least two years of my life.
    Before I met her I was obsessed with someone else. I also thought that that 'obsession' meant that I was in love with that person, I was always longing for her, even though -same as with my ex- I didn't really have feelings for her when we met in person.
    I think another issue is that I only feel most like myself when I am alone, then I am able to 'process' things.

    I really want to meet someone new. I long for this 'special connection'. But I am also scared to go through this shit all over again. I know that this is a vicious circle, I recognize that now and I want to work at that. But I also don't quite know how. Because I also love it to get completely lost, to let myself go, to experience such intense feelings (good and bad), even though it's destructive. Every time when I get out of a relationship (not even romantic) like this I say that I never want to meet anyone new ever again. But I know that that's a lie.

    Something I can completely relate to is how the four is described here (all the subtypes, not only SP).

    Sorry for this long-ass shit story. I am bad at keeping things short. If you read all of this you most definitely deserve a medal.
    “I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it.”

    - J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

  2. #2
    A Bittersweet Symphony... The Cat's Avatar
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    What sort of feeling are you looking to experience?
    I am the Cat who walks by himself; and all places are alike to me...

  3. #3
    ฬᎥɬⲥhฯ ฬ๏ოᥑռ Luminous's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how important this is, but I am not entirely sure what you describe is 4 (it may well be), but it could also be that you're an sx dom (and possibly a 9) since it's the dance and the merging and the loss of yourself as part of something and the intense rush that you are describing that seem so important. Just something you might look into.



    I don't think you're doomed. I think it would likely have been a lot easier for you if this relationship had not been long distance. If you had seen each other in person more. I think a healthier relationship will be easier for you when you're forced to accommodate reality more, which having the person there in front of you will do. Take some time to reflect without getting involved with anyone else. Are you running from some other feelings which the obsessions are a way of dealing with? Are you missing something else in your life? What other things make you feel passionate? (I mean, other than romantic relationships, are you passionate about music or writing or painting or ... ?) See if you can healthily displace some of your need for intensity/merging into some of those areas. Perhaps that would lessen the strain on any new relationships.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★・゚ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ・゚ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ・゚ ᴛʜᴇ ・゚ᴇᴇʟꜱ・゚★
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  4. #4
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
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    Symmetry in relationships is what I think is most important for both good and bad. People *should* be with people who possess their same vices to learn empathy and awareness about it and people should be with someone who can love them with the same love they offer. Maybe opposites attract, but it does enable people to cop out and say the rules are too different for each person when they aren't.

    You need to find someone who loves the same way that you do. That symmetry creates balance, harmony, enduring love.
    bunny omi


  5. #5
    (h)angry snek parent ThisName's Avatar
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    @Luminous I get what you mean. I probably forgot to describe a few important points (and my story is probably kinda sloppy). It's more about the 'longing' thing that is described, and also refusing to let go of unhealthy things. Like this; "There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death."
    I want to get better, I want to change but at the same time I don't. Because who am I when all my problems are gone? When I can't long or dwell on something?

    It's about never being satisfied with what you have. It's as if I enjoy thinking about a possible romance more than actually living it. But I really want to live it, but the feelings I imagine in my head never seem to match with what happens in real life.
    (I have this thing too at parties. I don't go out a lot anymore but when I did o gosh... I would find myself someone 'interesting', I liked the idea of 'seducing people'. -Not that I am good at it lmao, I am kinda awkward and stiff but apparently people still want to talk to me, I usually don't approach people- But it always turned out like this; I liked the talking and stuff. It was exciting to see if they would want to kiss me or not, if we would keep talking, if they thought I was attractive. But as soon as they did, or if I they showed their desires too clearly/blunt then I suddenly wasn't interested anymore. It was like *snap* and my desires were gone, not thrilling enough anymore. I seek approval and I am thrilled about finding it, but when I get it it doesn't feel as good as I'd imagined. The proces is exciting but the outcome is never really that satisfying. I think that describes it best. )

    Like they describe here (4SX). "Fours in general believe that love is by far the most important thing in their lives and the sexual subtype in particular believes that when, and only when, they find the perfect love will they be happy. "
    That's how I generally feel. As if love is something that will fix me, as if that's the purpose of life, that all my problems will suddenly be gone (even though I know that's not the case, I tend to forget about it from time to time.) When I meet someone new, I can focus on them. I can forget about my own problems (and they become my 'new' problem eventually).
    I think you are right about the thing that there's something missing in my life. I am struggling with my mental health, I am easily bored, I want to socialize more but I am also insecure (though I also feel 'superior' from time to time), I find it difficult to click/connect with people -> when I find someone I have a connection with I am beyond excited. But deep down I know that people aren't medicine. I am usually like this when I am in a bad mental state. Right now par example I am 'okay' with not having anyone special in my life, yesterday I obviously wasn't. xp

    The distance was a problem indeed. I also think things would have turned out differently if she'd lived closer to me. But the thing is, that I didn't really feel much for her. It still felt like something was missing.

    I like art and sports, I listen to music a lot. Cooking is also something I enjoy (but it's expensive and time is an issue). I went to the library a few days ago, borrowed some books about sketching and painting but I keep procrastinating. Though I bought some new pencils, paint (brushes), paper and stuff... I will have to force myself to do something. I am planning to start wall climbing (at least once a week) again and to go mountain biking from time to time.
    When I walk with one of 'my' dogs I interact with a lot of people. I've met some interesting people and I am always looking forward to seeing them again (I don't have their number or anything, so I am never sure if they will be there). It gives me hope for a while, life ain't that bad after all. But it doesn't always last for long. Especially when I am feeling bad, none of this matters anymore.
    I seem to be doing relatively fine now on my own (except from missing someone I shouldn't, and sometimes still making stories up in my head). It's only that I have to find a way to keep this up when I meet someone I like.

    I think you're right that seeing each other in person more could teach me how to 'live in the moment'. It's that I seem to have this thing for people who are 'unreachable'. :')

    I can relate to some characteristics of the nine. Though I am generally not 'peacekeeper'. I like discussions and that kind of stuff. Sometimes it even 'amuses' me when I see people in conflict with each other (especially online, I am always looking for the drama), or I like to be in a 'passive' conflict and then I tell myself that I am better than them anyway (which is kind of a 'defense mechanism'). Mostly because I am bored. I do like solving conflicts (between other people), but I think that's because it makes me feel good. Even though I'm kinda indifferent to it at times (really depends on my mood/mental state). Though I don't know a lot about type 9 so I could be wrong. I remember that when I introduced myself you also thought I was a nine. Is there a specific reason for that? (You don't have to tell me of course. I can imagine that this is already a lot to read/get through. I can look it up myself ofc)

    Type 9 just seems to be more genuine in wanting to have peace. I do not like it when I get into a serious conflict with people close to me because I don't want to loose them. At other times I relate to the SP4 a lot; I am 'invincible', they won't leave me, right? (Being invincible is also something I believed to be when I was a kid. Yes, planes can crash but not the one I am on. Bad things only happen to other people)





    Thanks for the link, I can relate indeed.

    @The Mysterious Stranger I am looking for a 'deep connection'. Someone I can talk with for hours, someone who interests me, who wants to get to know me, who brings out the best of me (I like to sport par example, but not on my own, someone who's able to do those things with me. But also someone who inspires me in a creative way). Not a temporary person, someone who'll be in my life 'forever'. But also feeling 'love' for the person who's in front of me and not when they are gone, since I don't think I really felt that with my ex. I really liked her in my own way, but I still felt weird, kinda surreal. It's hard to describe. As if I am living on 'auto pilot' when I am with someone else.

    What I want is to be able to love someone, but to stop being so obsessed with them to the point it becomes unhealthy. As soon as I meet someone interesting, I loose myself completely. Like they are the one who are supposed to 'save' me. Maybe that's what I am looking for and I should probably stop doing that. :')
    Or maybe I am just obsessed with the wrong person. Because when she was giving me the attention I needed I was fine, as soon as that stopped...

    @Ravenetta that's true. I once made my ex take the enneagram test too. She got a 'two'. Though I have my doubts. As soon as she was having a hard time, she starting shutting me out. Unhealthy two's are described as 'clingy' and wanting to help others but that's not what she did. She became obsessive with her schoolwork, she even became harsh and started denigrating my problems imo (she apologized for this later when she broke up with me tho). She told me that she wasn't able to get out of her 'bubble' because we didn't see each other very often anymore (also bc she was too busy). She did hang out with her best friend a lot tho, because face to face contact was something that could break through her bubble.

    Finding someone who loves the same as I do sounds amazing. It's only so exhausting to find someone like that. :p

    Sorry for this long-ass post again. I always keep adding things and then I start doubting if I should even post this shit, if the things I wrote were really that important but here we go. :')

    @Luminous again, thanks for the message!^^ The fact that my English is pretty 'basic' doesn't seem to be that bad after all, it probably makes it easy to read. I'm glad to hear that tho! -I don't know how/where to respond to the 'Latest Reputation Received' thingy. So I thought I'd just do it here. I still need to figure out how this forum works. :p - )
    “I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it.”

    - J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye
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  6. #6
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    Much of this does sound 4-ish to me.

    I think instead of focusing on fixing the problem you've identified, you need to stop identifying with the problem. This is a very difficult thing for 4s and can lead to feelings of emptiness at first because without the suffering, there is no sense of self, and the self has to be manifested more than created (that is not to say that searching for the self stops ... it never will, but, there should be less focus on attaining a not yet realized self and more focus on the here, the now, and particularly your body by doing physical things).
    Perpetual mood


    "It is not the personality's task to tell the truth,
    but to seem to, try to, or try to seem to."


    Philip Trussell

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  7. #7
    ฬᎥɬⲥhฯ ฬ๏ოᥑռ Luminous's Avatar
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    I agree with Peter, much of it does sound 4-ish. Much also sounds sx-ish. Peter's advice sounds great. And also the idea of trying to be in the moment. And possibly getting some of your obsessive energy out in a way that doesn't involve other people. All of that sounds difficult. People are more interesting than other activities for me, but getting lost in research about something interesting or working on a creative project help me a lot.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★・゚ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ・゚ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ・゚ ᴛʜᴇ ・゚ᴇᴇʟꜱ・゚★
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  8. #8
    A Bittersweet Symphony... The Cat's Avatar
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    What do you bring to the deep connection? I saw a lot mentioned of what you want a special someone to give you, what do you wish to offer in return?
    I am the Cat who walks by himself; and all places are alike to me...
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  9. #9
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    What do you bring to the deep connection? I saw a lot mentioned of what you want a special someone to give you, what do you wish to offer in return?
    Excellent question. Something often overlooked by people who experience these feelings of disappointment and frustration.
    Perpetual mood


    "It is not the personality's task to tell the truth,
    but to seem to, try to, or try to seem to."


    Philip Trussell

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  10. #10
    (h)angry snek parent ThisName's Avatar
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    @Peter Deadpan you are probably right indeed. When I am unhealthy, or when I feel worthless it's easier to embrace your 'darkness' instead of doing something about it. Because it gives me some sort of comfort. It's easy to find comfort in the mess, at least it gives me some sort of identity and then I will make myself believe that I am special because of it - everyone else is stupid anyway and they don't understand me.

    I think it's also the lack of motivation to change, or that I am always waiting for the 'right moment'. Last year par example, I bought a lot of videogames but I always had to force myself to get out of my room and to actually play them, I even felt stressed about it. I was always making excuses that I wasn't in the right mood to play. Which was kinda true, I was always seeking these 'highs'. What's the use of doing something if it doesn't make me feel as if I am on top of the world?

    @Luminous I like research too. That's also why I am here and on other fora, or just googling some random stuff. I like to read about people's experiences, what they go through. But it drives me crazy from time to time because at first, I get very excited about it. But then it becomes draining, I want to absorb as much as I can but I am messy. Like just a few minutes ago I had +-8 tabs open, whilst still opening more of them because it all seemed SO interesting. Then I suddenly loose interest (because I don't know where to start, or I am trying to read multiple topics at the same time), not willing to close the tabs but also not wanting to read any of them. :')
    That's how it goes most of the time, I'll feel a rush of excitement and live up to it, when the rush is gone most of the time I don't even bother trying anymore.

    So yeah, maybe that's also something I have to learn. Not everything has to be that intense.

    @The Mysterious Stranger. Welp. :') Right now it doesn't make me feel good because I feel like I don't have much to offer.
    Most of the time I am looking for people who also have some sort of 'issues'. Like I already said I am very interested in people and especially their problems. It makes me feel good when I am able to help them, to listen to them, to be someone they can trust and rely on. I always feel/felt as if sharing issues with each other will make our bond stronger, because you're allowing the other person to 'look into you'. I don't necessary feel vulnerable when I share my stuff (tho I want to feel understood/acknowledged), but I know a lot of people do. I want them to feel comfortable with who they are, to give them the freedom to share stuff about themselves, to explore and to know that I won't judge them for it, nothing is too crazy.

    In my relationship I would always encourage my girlfriend in her creativity. Bought her some pastels because she told me she liked drawing with them but that they were too expensive. I enjoy it to see how people can be passionate about something and if I am able to stimulate them (and they are open to it) I will. I want to support them on their 'journey', whatever that might be. I don't have to be a part of it but if they like to share it with someone I will always be there.

    When I am with 'the right' person I'm also able to just forget about the world and be the most idiotic dork. I think one of the best feelings to experience is this 'youthful' kind of happiness. The 'you and me against the world' type of thing. Just joking around, running, throwing stuff at each other and climbing trees, it doesn't always have to be serious.
    I am also comfortable with silence and just existing together.

    Some of my friends have told me that they think I'm confident, that I do things that go against the 'social norms' and that they like that about me. One of them even shyly admitted that she thought I was a 'rebel' and that she was jealous of that. Because she liked to portray herself as highly confident and didn't like it to admit that she 'looked up' to that. Though I am not even that confident, I even tend to be socially awkward. (Tho, when someone else is insecure I am -suddenly- able to put my own insecurities aside. So that's probably what people see when I am with them, and I guess that that sometimes makes it able for them to 'crawl out of their shell', or to experience/do some stuff they normally wouldn't)
    But then again, it really depends on the person I am with. There are people who will never know me as confident, rebellious or playful.

    My ex told me that she'd never felt that comfortable with someone so soon/easily (after the first time we met). She told me things she'd never told anyone before so yeah I think that's something I can 'offer'?
    But at the same time, I was never that 'rebellious' around her as I was with my friend because I didn't feel that energy I guess.

    So I do think I have some balance between being serious, being able to go 'deep' but that I am also able to be playful, to bring the child out of someone. I'm also flexible, you can text me at any time asking me to go out and do something and I'll be up for it.

    If it's about knowledge... I tend to know a lot about animals, nature and psychology. Or I like sharing some made up theories, discussing them with other people, allowing them to share their ideas too. But not everyone is interested in that. If they're not interested or don't show any interest I won't bother them with it. Also with my more 'creative' side, I tend to keep it to myself.

    I can obviously also offer them way too long text messages with too much information and I like to receive them back. But sometimes I think that that can easily turn into a con. :')

    But I feel as if this topic/thread is twisting around me way too much. I opened this topic for other people to share their experience too, if they want to of course.
    “I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it.”

    - J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye
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