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  1. #1
    夕日無影 Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Default The effects of IV & wing on Enneagram type manifestation

    I somewhat wonder how much each Enneagram type is actually tied to certain traits, like say, introversion/extroversion.

    For example, 8w9, is described as calmer, more introverted, even superficially 9-like (for an 8). E3 sp (which is countertype for E3), especially 3w4 is described to be more perfectionistic, introverted, superficially 1-like and more introspective (while 3w2 soc the stereotypical E3). sp 4s are prone to mistype as E1 due to being high idealists yet being tempered by sp. Being soc dom 5 is described to seem almost scattered, 7-like while say, socializing.

    Pay in mind that this is purely external appearance, and the core motivations/main type remains the same- but the point being is that due to say, the instincts working seemingly against what is described to be the natural pull / motivations of the type, it would manifest differently, 'atypically', and diverge from the common descriptions of the type- which is where things get interesting. That being said,



    1) If you are countertyped, how do you think it affects how you behave and extravert your types, if at all?
    2) How much do you think your wing affects the manifestation of your type, or how your type works?
    3) Do you relate to the stereotypical descriptions of your type out there (countertype or not)?

    Notes:
    - This is for core types only;

    IV (instinctual variants) will not differ across the tritype, because IVs are basic instinctual pulls that characterizes how you see the world, what you seek.
    - It may or may not relate to MBTI;
    Each theory is a typing system on its own right, one of cognition and one of motivation, it does not 'balance out' each other (eg: "I type as Introvert in MBTI, so it makes my 8 calmer") even if there might be overlap. However, it would be interesting to see those who have types such as being an MBTI Introvert while being E8 core, which according to theory, 'does not make sense because 8s are extroverted' (and you're welcome to add to this), or even Perceiving 1s.



    To help, here is a full list of each type and their IV manifestation, as well as what their countertypes are:
    Enneagram Theory: The Cutting Edge of Our Subtype Knowledge According to Claudio Naranjo - The Enneagram in Business

    Countertype shortcuts:
    Sexual: 1, 5, 6
    Self-preservation: 2, 3, 4
    Social: 7, 8, 9

  2. #2
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
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    The 8w9s is described that way due to ISTPs and INTJs that keep wanting to be them. 8's of either wing are only ExTx's.

  3. #3
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
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    The 3w2 is generally more outgoing because they seek success+lovability. They can't afford to let a moment slip and they have much easier time integrating due to their super ego wing.

  4. #4
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you mean countertyped as in having a conflicting wing which would applies to 4w3s and 9w8s as well? It doesn't feel too great when you are surrounded by a bunch of people that only accept the 9w1 as 9s.

  5. #5
    夕日無影 Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misfortuneteller View Post
    I'm guessing you mean countertyped as in having a conflicting wing which would applies to 4w3s and 9w8s as well? It doesn't feel too great when you are surrounded by a bunch of people that only accept the 9w1 as 9s.
    No. The instinctual variant, like in the link and shortcut I posted above.

  6. #6
    Devour Sung Jin-Woo's Avatar
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    Sp 4.... [suffering intensifies internally] It inverts a lot of the behaviors 4's do, and turns them against the self. Kinda like extream psychological masochism I guess. I have the tendancy to ostracize myself, then work my way in I think. #thestruggleisreal

    I am not sure on wing, but 5 makes more sense I think. It holds back the tendancies some 4's have with the expression of suffering and projects strength/apathy instead. But at times it does come out, and gives me that cp6 vibe with tempered reactivity.

    I don't relate a lot, because they generally are not for sp. The only time I find 4 descriptions I relate to, are in tritype descriptions. But the core identifying fears/desires are the same for me.

    Im tired so I might have not thought this through enough.
    “That's the problem with drinking, I thought, as I poured myself a drink. If something bad happens you drink in an attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen.”


    ― Charles Bukowski

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  7. #7
    Saprophytic Aphrodite Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    I'll let you know when my Ne lets me makes sense of all my layers and peculiarities, but I mostly relate to the Sp and Sx descriptions of both 4 and 5. I'm socially introverted and withdrawn, but clearly cognitively extroverted and more focused on perceiving, collecting, and exploring. In short, I might be an ENxP but a 4w5 or 5w4. I feel too emotional and volatile to be a 5, but too logical, detached, and insensitive to be a 4, hence relating mostly to the countertype descriptions of both 4 and 5. I do not relate to the goody-goodness of Sp 4s, but I do have 8-ish tendencies, so that could be where my outbursts and stubbornness come from.

    I am definitely masochistic, very hard on myself, put myself through challenges in an effort to ... I don't know exactly, but it seem cruel to do some of the things I do to myself. I am also VERY heady and need an extreme amount of intellectual stimulation which is satisfied by studying interesting concepts, but I do not relate to the jumpy, non-committal nature of 7s, or the overly unstable neurosis of 6s (I am definitely neurotic though, do not misunderstand me there, it's just a different kind of neurosis).

    I'm rambling and it's lunch time. Bye.
    Perpetual mood


    "It is not the personality's task to tell the truth,
    but to seem to, try to, or try to seem to."


    Philip Trussell

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  8. #8
    🎉 Luminous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixaerus View Post
    1) If you are countertyped, how do you think it affects how you behave and extravert your types, if at all?
    2) How much do you think your wing affects the manifestation of your type, or how your type works?
    3) Do you relate to the stereotypical descriptions of your type out there (countertype or not)?
    So, I am torn between being either 1w9 or 9w1, and sx dom, most likely sx/sp, along with being an INFP cognitive function-wise, and INFx dichotomy-wise.

    From the site you linked:
    I especially identify with the underlined.


    Some of the descriptions of 1 sx-doms make them sound like overbearing invaders. That I do not relate to at all.

    It may be because:
    • I am introverted
    • my judging function is introverted so I am focused on myself and what I value in terms of what inspires deep feelings in me regarding what I would like to change toward being more ideal
    • one of these values is not overstepping and taking freedom of choice away from anyone else
    • my 9 is strong
    that I both didn't initially see how I was strongly 1-like, and how the 1 sx tendency is more tempered in terms of acting out on the outside world. I think I direct it more toward myself, rather than others and the world in general. That is not to say I do not push others, particularly those close to me, to change to become more ideal, but the focus is more on myself or what I can do in order to make the world more ideal for those others. One huge example of this from my life is moving half-way across the country to be with someone.

    I can look at how I feel about some people and see clearly that if they are someone I care for strongly and they have or do experience things that are strongly unfair, I have a strong desire to want to fix or soothe or do what I can to make the situation closer to what I think the ideal would be.

    And I do tend to judge those close to me if they mistreat me in some (perceived) way, as there is a way I feel I should be treated (which is largely based on respect and reciprocity). Sometimes those things are easily let go, sometimes there's a door slam.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
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    @Luminous I literally relate to all of the 8 stuff but I know i'm a core 9. The key is to look back at your whole entire life especially your childhood. I had to toughen up in my teens hence my forcefulness.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
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    @Luminous You have strong values because you're a Fi dom. You have shown many signs of being an attachment type (3,6,9) and having a heavy wing for either 9 is going to make them angry. I'm sure you'd know since you've seen what i'm like when i'm annoyed.

    Edit: Also you question things a lot under stress like a 9 does since we disintegrate to 6.
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