• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Traditional Enneagram] The commoness of Eights

neko 4

New member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
437
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
I read that after Nine, Eight is the most common type for men. I find this hard to believe as I only know two Eights. Do you guys think it's more guys who WANT to be Eights over guys who really are Eights? I wouldn't be surprised if there are Threes and Sixes who want to be Eights.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Source? I have only read that 8s are in the minority, from Wisdom of Enneagram.

To entertain that, however; on one hand I can see it, but those individuals might not fit the stereotypical picture of E8. E8 doesn't have to be this great, inspiring, powerful, fear-inducing, ambitious pack leader, sometimes I think they could just be your garden variety bully or useless abusive husband.

Maybe, if they really are that common, we might have had the wrong image/understanding of 8s and how they manifest. Something like the INFJ effect where 8s are described very positively online (their ambition, aggressiveness, leadership) that people who do not possess those are 'automatically not 8s'. Or rather, people who are unable to exert those traits effectively or in a manner the theory describes, are shadowed over as not being 8.

Something like "if you're ISFP, then surely you have artistic interests / can do art!" Their natural inclination makes it that there is much overlap, but not necessarily. In which 8s really might be more common than we think.

Thoughts?
 
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
5,100
I think boys/men have been encouraged to emulate traits that can be associated with 8’s. However, it probably fits the stereotype of 8 more than the reality.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Enneagram Test Stats

stats.gif


Sample Size said:
12168 test scores (since 6/10/97)
 

Yuurei

Noncompliant
Joined
Sep 29, 2016
Messages
4,509
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
I read that after Nine, Eight is the most common type for men. I find this hard to believe as I only know two Eights. Do you guys think it's more guys who WANT to be Eights over guys who really are Eights? I wouldn't be surprised if there are Threes and Sixes who want to be Eights.

Absolutely. 8 ( and ENTJ) sound very flattering to certain types of people and they attempt SO HARD to be one that in the end their transparency and insecurities about their own weakness glow like a damned beacon.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Absolutely. 8 ( and ENTJ) sound very flattering to certain types of people and they attempt SO HARD to be one that in the end their transparency and insecurities about their own weakness glow like a damned beacon.
I don't get the appeal. The descriptions for Enneagram 8 and ENTJ are cringe worthy.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I don't get the appeal. The descriptions for Enneagram 8 and ENTJ are cringe worthy.

Confident, ambitious, strong, being at the front lines, 'natural leader', assertive, in control, charismatic even, the list goes on...
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Confident, ambitious, strong, being at the front lines, 'natural leader', assertive, in control, charismatic even, the list goes on...
Meh, it's over-the-top stuff that draws the narcissists.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
I don't get the appeal. The descriptions for Enneagram 8 and ENTJ are cringe worthy.

The appeal is that males (OP specified men) that think they know what masculinity is and have no interest in exploring that beyond the stereotypical, focus on e8. They seem to gloss over the ASD, the sociopaths tendencies, the immoral, violent and completely delusional possibilities. Oh and the view that every male e8 must be this way, like they have no choice in the matter. In a nutshell - they want to be what every man wants to be and every woman wants to fuck. You can file that in the delusional column as well. Many don't get the appeal. Many men don't get what isn't appealing.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
The appeal is that males (OP specified men) that think they know what masculinity is and have no interest in exploring that beyond the stereotypical, focus on e8. They seem to gloss over the ASD, the sociopaths tendencies, the immoral, violent and completely delusional possibilities. Oh and the view that every male e8 must be this way, like they have no choice in the matter. In a nutshell - they want to be what every man wants to be and every woman wants to fuck. You can file that in the delusional column as well. Many don't get the appeal. Many men don't get what isn't appealing.

It's a bit sad honestly, because if they are so controlled by those delusions and need to be 'masculine' (or strong, whatever), are they really strong at all, is all I can think. I digress though, since it's not what OP asked.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
It's a bit sad honestly, because if they are so controlled by those delusions and need to be 'masculine' (or strong, whatever), are they really strong at all, is all I can think. I digress though, since it's not what OP asked.

It is sad. Because they are capable of much more positive personality traits. But I'm not sure how many men just want to BE e8's as opposed to those that actually are.
 

SearchingforPeace

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
5,711
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
My e8 ENTJ friend is a pretty friendly guy and a pretty healthy e8. He is a successful businessman having built a company from nothing to a net profit to him of $250k per year in just a few years.

He didn't seek out his typing. It just fits him. He is fairly clueless as far social norms. He says cringeworthy statements to his wife. He doesn't treat his employees as "people" as much as tools.

But he also is extremely loyal. He mentors others and helps them be succesful.

And he is working very hard at self-improvement, especially after 40. He meditates, does yoga, and studies how to be a better person.

He is an all-round great person.

Sure, his wife almost ditched him a few times in his 30s before he started trying to improve.

I know another e8 ENTJ (he's near 75). His life story is similar. He admits that he was a driven asshole until around 40. Suddenly he woke up and started caring about others and working hard to be a better person.(and that is how I type him, not based upon tests, just years of knowing him and talking to him about life)
 

Yuurei

Noncompliant
Joined
Sep 29, 2016
Messages
4,509
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
That is...sad. I learned the same lesson by 25.

I know a lot of ENTJ 8's like to brag about "Bulldozing" and other obnoxious shit like that. I really don't see the need. It's kind of pathetic and extraordinary desperate.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
I have scored e8 many times and people even said to me that I sound like an 8, but I just don't see it as my main "motivation". I can be pain in the ass but not really for the e8 reasons, what is all that matters in enneagram.


Although the whole thing indeed seems like it is blown out of proportions. Therefore the irony is that many 8s probably don't want to be 8s and none 8s want to be 8s.
 

GavinElster

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
233
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Personally I see no reason why they should be uncommon. At the end of the day, denial of vulnerability is a classic defense mechanism, and very linked to the self-numbing of the 9--there is a deep reason they are neighbors.


I mean, yes there are cases of people very in touch with their vulnerabilities who are just aggressive people and aren't 8s. But there are also lots of similar botch-ups with e3 and so on. What really makes someone a type is that the person most directly sees the world through that type, vs having the type filtered through another.
 

neko 4

New member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
437
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
That graph makes more sense to me.
 

Sacrophagus

Mastermind Fieldmarshal
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
1,702
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
854
Personally I see no reason why they should be uncommon. At the end of the day, denial of vulnerability is a classic defense mechanism, and very linked to the self-numbing of the 9--there is a deep reason they are neighbors.
Agreed.

8s; a force to be reckoned with, and with enough sagacity and demureness, their flame brights with poised vigor.

Considering that I have frequented many 8s throughout my life, it is unfortunate that most of them will hide behind impregnable walls to hide their vulnerabilities, tending to focus on harvesting the "I'm perfect" persona, unbeknownst to them that it drives people away, including those who follow them for they cannot relate to their humanity.

Most 8 bosses I've met had a "My way or the highway" mindset instead of the "Follow me in virtue, and do not follow me in vice", which is humane and real. It takes wisdom and the strength to own their weaknesses to reach the other level.

Those who acquired a bit of humility can appreciate others' insights and welcome others' emotional needs and weaknesses instead of shutting them down. In a time of turmoil, they are also grateful for those who remind them in a moment of transparency who they are and what is important, instead of just being obstinate for the sake of obstination.

For those who are not 8s, the pressure to perform and the false social stereotypes around masculinity make them relinquish their authenticity for what is perceived as acceptable. When cornered, sometimes people gotta do what they think have to do to survive. That's understandable, albeit unfortunate.
 

Yuurei

Noncompliant
Joined
Sep 29, 2016
Messages
4,509
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Agreed.

8s; a force to be reckoned with, and with enough sagacity and demureness, their flame brights with poised vigor.

Considering that I have frequented many 8s throughout my life, it is unfortunate that most of them will hide behind impregnable walls to hide their vulnerabilities, tending to focus on harvesting the "I'm perfect" persona, unbeknownst to them that it drives people away, including those who follow them for they cannot relate to their humanity.

Most 8 bosses I've met had a "My way or the highway" mindset instead of the "Follow me in virtue, and do not follow me in vice", which is humane and real. It takes wisdom and the strength to own their weaknesses to reach the other level.

Those who acquired a bit of humility can appreciate others' insights and welcome others' emotional needs and weaknesses instead of shutting them down. In a time of turmoil, they are also grateful for those who remind them in a moment of transparency who they are and what is important, instead of just being obstinate for the sake of obstination.

For those who are not 8s, the pressure to perform and the false social stereotypes around masculinity make them relinquish their authenticity for what is perceived as acceptable. When cornered, sometimes people gotta do what they think have to do to survive. That's understandable, albeit unfortunate.

I find this " My way or the highway" attitude, along with the bragging about "Bulldozing" to be incredibly juvenile and off putting. It's really why I tend not to get along with other ENTJ. It smacks of insecurity more than anything and is a great example of how to be an awful leader. The best leaders are those who know the true value of their followers ( and thus confidence in their own judgement) and how to best put it to use, usually by trusting that they know what they are doing and allowing them to do as they will.

One thing I do appreciate about other 8's ( opposed to ENTJ) is that I have had them things say things like " I am impressed and fascinated at your willingness to show vulnerability" but never question my type.

I think I see vulnerability different than a lot of other people. I don't wear armor,I guess is how I would put it. I'm the Emperor who is aware I he has no clothing and couldn't care less. I'll just take the hit in the face because I know it wont kill me.

Yeah, I often have the "naked at school" dreams. I've heard they are about vulnerable, but in these dreams, I'm not embarrassed. My attitude is more like " This is more you're problem than mine. I'll put clothes on when the cold get to me. Until then, deal with it."
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Enneatype 8s are more vocal and environmentally controlling, hence likely why people perceive more eights than actually exist. Enneagram five is plentiful in cyberspace but their coping mechanism is to withdraw so they're less noticeable.
 
Top