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[Traditional Enneagram] Can someone explain the holy ideas in a comprehensible way?

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This is the time for all the knowledgeable lurkers to come out of the wood-work. :)
 

VeeK

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
8w7
christian theology doesn't apply well to the enneagram. that's why the holy ideas don't make sense. some Christians just love to run around seeing jesus in everything. also in my opinion, Christianity is a lot of bunk, but I was raised catholic, so I'll give it a shot.

So basically Holy Ideas are the things each type has to realize in order to "fix" their ego-fixation. The loss of these ideas causes the ego-fixations. So in order to fix a 1's resentment towards the imperfections of themselves and others, they have to realize that perfection is only achievable through god. In order for an 8 to stop seeking vengeance, they have to realize the "truth" that only god delivers justice, by either sending people to hell or heaven. In order for 6's to stop being "cowards" and "doubting", they have to have faith in god bc he will protect them and guide them. In order for 7's to stop worrying about planning, they have to realize that only god knows whats going to happen and trust him. And so on and so forth.

In my opinion, the holy ideas are completely meaningless unless you are a christian. If you are, I think they ultimately encourage inaction. We need people who pursue vengeance--dangerous people should not go unpunished in this life because they will be punished in the next. We need people who pursue perfection--we must hold our leaders to the highest standard possible. If perfection is achievable, improvements can always be made. We need people who act on their fears--we must be skeptical and alert. We need people who see possibilities and trust their own minds. The thing about the enneagram is that everyone's worst quality is also their best. Religion does not temper flaws, as history shows. (Not that atheism necessarily does either)
 

Kanra Jest

Av'ent'Gar'de ~
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
2,388
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
ALL of these fixations result in a total fixation on God to fix all your problems. THIS is a concept I have had a serious issue with accepting. If others desire to give themselves their whole sense of self to an outside external entity then so be it, but I feel it stifling and dependent. Is dependency healthy? Suppose that depends on your perception. I believe that true power comes from within and our dependency on external entities to guide our hands constantly just makes us softer and more in a baby-like state that I don't believe we should be in. It limits us as we relinquish control to an absolute. Not only control, but our very identity becomes HIS as we have none of our own. We have given our 'Self' to him, all that we are, dedicated to him. I believe individualism is a far more powerful factor, and their are ways to be an enlightened individual while still following guidelines and wisdom in life to live by that isn't dominating us but encouraging us.

Our flaws should also be made into our strengths, or redirected into something more fruitful and new. Better ways. There are always better ways and they don't involve giving up who we are.

Still, if it makes some happy then go for it. I've been itching to speak about this some day. This concept. This idea. How would it work? Well I understand how it could work with enneagram if you believe in God and that he influences and will fix your life an choose to depend on that. I can see how it would work in theory. Makes sense in it's bubble. But still a bubble nonetheless.
 
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