• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Traditional Enneagram] 2w1 vs 1w2

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
statically ENFJ 2w1 are the second or third most common. while 1w2 ENFJ is rare,type 1 ENFJs make up about 3% of total ENFJ enneagram types.
this is my source.

for ENFJ:
Here Are The Most Common Enneagram Types For Each Myers-Briggs Personality Type | Page 15 | Thought Catalog

Here is what she says on the landing page of this collection of type correlations.

"It is important to indicate that the compiled data was entirely based on self-report. Participants were not required to obtain a professional assessment of their type or display an understanding of type theory, therefore a large margin of error must be taken into account when reviewing the results."



tldr: I don't believe that's useful knowledge or knowledge that I'd know enough about to adequately use it. Type is complicated. We aren't obligated to believe claims just because they are made or because someone in some way measured something, even if we are obligated to show respect to others and try to relate to what it's like to be a social animal who at times needs to make claims about oneself and one's own social identity (self in relation to others).


so your saying i`m 1w2? because i didn`t quite understand the sentence.


With primary vs secondary/wing, I've noticed that primary seems to be visible earlier developmentally. For myself and many people I know, it seems like the wing kicks in around 18-22. It seems like primary starts kicking in around puberty.


In the meantime, I have no idea of your type. I was just suggesting that might be an interesting place to look when disambiguating 1w2 vs 2w1. In my own personal correlations matrix, I put ENFJ at 1w2 and 3w4. So far, I haven't observed someone who I thought seemed best fit at ENFJ who was a different enneagram type. I think some of the differences that destablize the fit are based on instinctual subtypes, which I also think are narrowed from all possibilities into specific correlations. There could also definitely be dimensions of personality we don't quite recognize or haven't quite ordered yet in our models.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Don't bother with him since he is being subjective like I stated before. He also thinks that certain enneagram types can only be one MBTI type which is ludacris.

I don't understand what you want here. Are you hoping that I feel bad for disagreeing with you?
 

AStrange~Nostalgia

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
160
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Don't bother with him since he is being subjective like I stated before. He also thinks that certain enneagram types can only be one MBTI type which is ludacris.

i agree with you, enne variety/correlation with each MBTI type has no limit. maybe there is variant statistics of each enne for a mbti type, but still, it exists!

I also noticed the subjectivity and random generalizations of which I`ve never seen before-through observations or variant sources. at least [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION] should have stated that it`s from a personal observation. I wouldn`t mind.
 

AStrange~Nostalgia

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
160
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
sorry it took me long to reply but your post was scary to begin with, with all these detailed information that keep looping and repeating itself. I swear that if you didn`t write your an INFJ I would have told you myself.. your posts are so INFJ. :D

you seem to have some nice theories here, which I can relate to somehow.

Here is what she says on the landing page of this collection of type correlations.

"It is important to indicate that the compiled data was entirely based on self-report. Participants were not required to obtain a professional assessment of their type or display an understanding of type theory, therefore a large margin of error must be taken into account when reviewing the results."
yes, I usually never take these statistics by the word (exactly) but I would have a general overview, at least in the most common 2 types. the big picture. which I find myself to agree with it mostly. that`s why I quoted it.

tldr: I don't believe that's useful knowledge or knowledge that I'd know enough about to adequately use it. Type is complicated. We aren't obligated to believe claims just because they are made or because someone in some way measured something, even if we are obligated to show respect to others and try to relate to what it's like to be a social animal who at times needs to make claims about oneself and one's own social identity (self in relation to others).

you are getting too deep in your thinking process. yes, you are not forced to believe literally "that`s you and you can`t deny it" it about general view. don`t forget: this is not a holistic nor sacred model. but it`s the most precise in general. 2) there is asocial factor it`s completely different between any human being and another. that`s the unique you.


I assume that with typology, we are trying to disambiguate. To use constraints to narrow our sense of type.
no, we are trying to understand how you think and feel (cognitive functions, mbti, enne) by putting you into categories of people you most share things in common with. and you get most psychological help and understanding by people who are your type. you can`t deny that.

With primary vs secondary/wing, I've noticed that primary seems to be visible earlier developmentally. For myself and many people I know, it seems like the wing kicks in around 18-22. It seems like primary starts kicking in around puberty.
I can relate. so if I got this right, a secondary wing is the third highest scoring type you get. in my case it`s 3 and I remember my childhood being a 3. and that was confusing when I took the test recently. it said I`m type 1, most likely.

From what I've observed, this is more useful than tallying features of all types without any context. It seems like a useful tool to explore best fit. It seems like a leading theory to me that is generally better than the other theories. It is weird though. Part of what makes it good is that it resolves cognitive tension. Definitely a slippery slope.

when someone understand you psychologically, you know they know the good and the bad in your life, and how to solve it. and that`s why I came across MBTI and enne.


In the meantime, I have no idea of your type. I was just suggesting that might be an interesting place to look when disambiguating 1w2 vs 2w1. In my own personal correlations matrix, I put ENFJ at 1w2 and 3w4. So far, I haven't observed someone who I thought seemed best fit at ENFJ who was a different enneagram type. I think some of the differences that destablize the fit are based on instinctual subtypes, which I also think are narrowed from all possibilities into specific correlations. There could also definitely be dimensions of personality we don't quite recognize or haven't quite ordered yet in our models.

you could use some searching in different enne for the same MBTI. I can name you a few ENFJ on youtube. but not for debate sake.


enne and MBTI are not the only factors that makes a personality. there is healthy/unhealthy, mature/immature(level of self development) and environment/moral aspects...etc.
that`s why you seem confused by typing. it a VERY WIDE science with many correlations.
 

AStrange~Nostalgia

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
160
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Misidentifying 1 and 2 — The Enneagram Institute


Misidentifying Ones and Twos

Gender can influence this mistyping as well. Women who are 1w2s tend to see themselves as 2w1s, and men who are 2w1s may see themselves as 1w2s.

Both types are serious, and conscience-driven, both like to feel that they are of service, and both can be very altruistic; however, their styles and motivations differ significantly. Ones try to transcend the personal in their dealings, appealing to principles and the evident "rightness" of their positions or suggestions. Twos are highly personal and see their service in personal terms. Ones defend their autonomy–they do not want people to interfere with them. Twos seek close connection and even merging. Ones are restrained in the expression of their positive feelings although they let people know when they are dissatisfied or irritated. Twos may have difficulty with hostile or angry feelings, but they are fairly unrestrained in expressing their positive feelings.

the bold is the real difference for me. I`m 100% sure I`m 1w2.
(I had a hard time finding this:shock:)
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
i agree with you, enne variety/correlation with each MBTI type has no limit. maybe there is variant statistics of each enne for a mbti type, but still, it exists!

Ah, I do believe that certain MBTI types can't be certain enneagram types but i'd never say that only one MBTI type can be one enneagram type.


I also noticed the subjectivity and random generalizations of which I`ve never seen before-through observations or variant sources.
I mean these assumptions are bizarre for someone who has been on this site for as long as he has been on it.

at least @the state i am in should have stated that it`s from a personal observation.
The only thing worse than subjectivity is subjectivity that is passed off as a fact.
 

AStrange~Nostalgia

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
160
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ah, I do believe that certain MBTI types can't be certain enneagram types but i'd never say that only one MBTI type can be one enneagram type.
I'm curious can you give me an example?
Like, why would it be impossible for a type to be a certain enne?
I've heard of this before but couldn't find an explanation. They never exist for real?

I mean these assumptions are bizarre for someone who has been on this site for as long as he has been on it.

I thought that too!
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm curious can you give me an example?
I could give you much more than an example.
View attachment 20728

Like, why would it be impossible for a type to be a certain enne?
I believe so and many experts in both MBTI+Enneagram do.

I've heard of this before but couldn't find an explanation. They never exist for real?
I think it is because the cognitive functions cancel out certain mindsets. Ex: People are always willing to say that any MBTI type can be any enneagram type until they are faced with a 1w9 ESFP or a 8w7 ISFJ etc.
 

AStrange~Nostalgia

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
160
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
@misfortunteller the attachment is invalid.

Oh that makes sense. No need for further comment. Thx:)
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I can relate. so if I got this right, a secondary wing is the third highest scoring type you get. in my case it`s 3 and I remember my childhood being a 3.


I mentioned in another thread that enneagram 3 christians tend to mistype as 1s because they don't like the idea of being seen as deceptive. I have a 3 father that would resemble a 1 because of his rigidness but that is because it is expected of him.

and that was confusing when I took the test recently. it said I`m type 1, most likely.
I get 4 on every test and i'm a 9w8. The moral of the story is the tests are garbage but they are a starting point.
 

AStrange~Nostalgia

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
160
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I mentioned in another thread that enneagram 3 christians tend to mistype as 1s because they don't like the idea of being seen as deceptive. I have a 3 father that would resemble a 1 because of his rigidness but that is because it is expected of him.

0-0 well.. I think I have alot of research to do. I have to go and figure out which is my type and which is the one I have as strong. Because I was told that we may gain a stronger type over another over life experiences and such.

I
I get 4 on every test and i'm a 9w8. The moral of the story is the tests are garbage but they are a starting point.

Have you tried this ? http:// https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test
 

AStrange~Nostalgia

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
160
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
That was the first one that I tried. It types nearly every INFP as a 4 since they look lowly on 6s and 9s.

that was the first and only enne test I did. and it was right. (I decided that I`m certain about my current enne :DI reevaluated it and it`s correct)

the order of the types for me as the test says are as follows: 1-2-3-6-9-5-4-7
the thing I didn`t understand is, considering the site might not be very precise, is that I scored least in type 7! is it common for 1s to have eliminated 7?
because I CAN relate to 7 just like I do to 6 . while trying to understand 4 is almost impossible without previous mental stresses, it`s the only type I have hard time in relating to or understanding how they think.
so is the result wrong or am I misunderstanding something?:huh:
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
that was the first and only enne test I did. and it was right. (I decided that I`m certain about my current enne :DI reevaluated it and it`s correct)

the order of the types for me as the test says are as follows: 1-2-3-6-9-5-4-7
the thing I didn`t understand is, considering the site might not be very precise, is that I scored least in type 7! is it common for 1s to have eliminated 7?
because I CAN relate to 7 just like I do to 6 . while trying to understand 4 is almost impossible without previous mental stresses, it`s the only type I have hard time in relating to or understanding how they think.
so is the result wrong or am I misunderstanding something?:huh:

Here the list of primary defense mechanisms by type, followed by a more in-depth explanation of each:

Ones: Reaction Formation

Reaction Formation is a defense mechanism by which individuals reduce or try to eliminate anxiety caused by their own thoughts, feelings, or behaviors that they consider unacceptable by responding in a manner that is the exact opposite of their real responses. The One’s active inner critic dictates what is acceptable based on social mores, contextual expectations, and moral principles, and reaction formation becomes a defensive remedy when Ones experience what they deem “unacceptable” reactions. A subtle example often seen in Ones is when they dislike someone yet are especially nice and polite to this person. A more blatant example – one that is not exclusive to Enneagram style Ones – is an individual who crusades against corporate corruption, only to be discovered later as having embezzled money from the organization.

Twos: Repression

Repression is a defense mechanism by which individuals hide information about themselves from themselves – for example, feelings, desires, wishes, aversions, fears, and needs – that are too difficult to acknowledge consciously. However, the repressed information doesn’t disappear; instead, expression of the repressed data is controlled or held down while it continues to influence the individual’s behavior. For example, Twos may feel anxious and need reassurance, but they may be only minimally aware of this. Instead of exploring these feelings or seeking comfort, the Two reassures another person who appears to be in distress.

Threes: Identification

Identification is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously incorporates attributes and characteristics of another person into his or her own personality and sense of self. Identification is a way of bolstering one’s self-esteem by forming an imaginary or real alliance with an admired person, then taking on that person’s characteristics. When Threes model their own behavior after someone else or the idea they have of someone, they are usually not aware they are doing so. For this reason, it becomes complicated for them to untangle who they really are from this image. In particular, Threes identify most with images of individuals who are admired in the Three’s desired social context, and the image with which Threes identify often changes as their context changes.

Fours: Introjection

Introjection is a counter-intuitive defense mechanism. Instead of repelling critical information and negative experiences that can cause a person anxiety or pain, individuals introject the information – that is, they fully absorb, internalize, and incorporate these data into their sense of self. Fritz Perls, the father of Gestalt Therapy, refers to this phenomenon as swallowing something whole without being able to differentiate between information that is true from information that is untrue. Fours introject negative information – and repel positive data – about themselves as a way of coping with painful information and neutralizing external threats. They prefer to deal with self-inflicted damage rather than having to respond to criticism or rejection from others.

Fives: Isolation

Isolation occurs in Fives as a way for them to avoid feeling overwhelmed and empty. Fives isolate themselves by retreating into their minds, cutting themselves off from their feelings, and compartmentalizing – that is, isolating each part of themselves from the whole or the related parts. For example, Fives separate their thoughts from their feelings and/or feelings from behaviors, as well as separating their personal and work lives. Fives may also isolate themselves from other people and separate their relationships so that their friends never meet one another; in fact, some Fives even have secret lives.

Sixes: Projection

Projection is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals unconsciously attribute their own unacceptable, unwanted, or disowned thoughts, emotions, motivations, attributes, and/or behaviors to others. While the projection may be positive, negative, or neutral, it occurs because the individuals who are projecting perceive the projected attributes as difficult to acknowledge or threatening to believe about themselves. Because Sixes make these attributions unconsciously, they imagine that they are true, although at a deeper level they are not entirely certain about this. Although Sixes use projection as a way to create some certainty and thus reduce their anxiety in ambiguous, uncertain, or potentially dangerous situations, these projections – particularly if they are negative in nature – ironically raise the Six’s anxiety level. In addition, when Sixes project either something negative or positive that is untrue, they create a false reality without knowing they are doing so.

Sevens: Rationalization

Rationalization is a defense mechanism by which individuals explain unacceptable thoughts, feelings, and behaviors in a way that entirely avoids or obscures their true motivations, intentions, or the effects of the behavior. When Sevens rationalize, they do so by positive reframing, justifying their behavior by explaining it in highly positive terms. Sevens use reframing to avoid pain, discomfort, sadness, guilt, and anxiety, as well as to avoid taking personal responsibility for what has occurred.

Eights: Denial

Denial is a defense mechanism by which individuals unconsciously negate something that makes them feel anxious by disavowing its very existence. These can include thoughts, feelings, wishes, sensations, needs, and other external factors that are unacceptable to the Eight for some reason. Denial comes in a variety of forms. A person may deny the reality of the unpleasant information altogether, admit that something is true but deny or minimize its seriousness, or admit that both the information and its severity are true but deny any personal responsibility for it.

Nines: Narcotization

Narcotization is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals unconsciously numb themselves to avoid something that feels too large, complex, difficult, or uncomfortable to handle. Nines narcotize and distract themselves by engaging in prolonged rhythmic activities that are familiar, require very little attention, and provide comfort – for example, washing the dishes; working in the garden; continuous pleasure reading of books by the same author or within the same genre; going for a walk or a bike ride; engaging in frequent or extended casual conversations; or continuously changing channels on the TV. Nines also use daily routines such as morning or evening rituals to immunize themselves from being fully aware, and they feel agitated, irritated, or disoriented when these repetitive activities become disrupted.

The Mental Habits (Fixations) of Each Style

Enneagram One: Resentment
Paying attention to flaws so that nothing ever seems good enough

Enneagram Two: Flattery
The gaining of acceptance through giving compliments or other forms of attention to others

Enneagram Three: Vanity
The strategic thinking about how to create an idealized image based on being or appearing to be successful

Enneagram Four: Melancholy
Thinking continuously about what is missing, with accompanying thoughts of being disconnected or separated from others

Enneagram Five: Stinginess
A scarcity paradigm that leads to an insatiable thirst for knowing, a reluctance to share – knowledge, time, space, and personal information – and to strategizing about how to control one’s environment

Enneagram Six: Cowardice
The thoughts of doubt and worry that cause the continuous creation of worst-case or anticipatory scenarios

Enneagram Seven: Planning
The mental process by which the mind goes into “hyper gear,” moving in rapid succession from one thing to another

Enneagram Eight: Vengeance
The process of rebalancing wrongs through thoughts related to anger, blame, and intimidation

Enneagram Nine: Laziness
Lethargy in paying attention one’s own feelings and needs, thus disabling him or her from taking the action you most desire
 
Top