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[Traditional Enneagram] How does your particular typing (MBTI, E Type/Instinct) potentially conflict?

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
Based off personal experience, and what sorts of things tend to run through your mind often enough to be noticed, do you personally think your particular typing arrangement (MBTI, Enneagram, Instinctual Variant) leave you at odds, internally conflicted at times? Or, do you feel it’s somewhere in the opposite direction, where your typing seems to run through you and express itself rather fluidly?

For example, I feel at times, being an ENFP, Type 7, and So dominant leaves me frustrated and conflicted inside. I will share my experience and how I personally feel the typings intermingle once I get the chance tonight. :)
 

Introspector

New member
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
547
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
ISTJs and so/sp are infamously impersonal, so a struggle for me is addressing people in a non-business manner.
 

LucieCat

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
665
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Well I'm an ENFP 6w7 sp/so.

I have a bit of a contradictory view on independence and structure. I want to be a free spirit, free to drift between places, activities, and ideas. Yet , I am very much duty driven and I look for support from those around me. Like a 6, I tend to seek stability. However, my ENFPness seems to contribute to my anxiety manifesting as a distrust of systems and leadership and ideologies while I desire a lot of the structure and security that those things bring because it helps ease my anxious uncertainty about myself and the world around me.

Being sx last is also apparently odd for an ENFP. But I don't really see contradictions there.
 

Lord Lavender

Bluered Trickster
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
5,851
MBTI Type
EVLF
Enneagram
739
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Hmmm ive never really related much to ESFJ profiles that seem to be describing a 2w3 So/Sx ESFJ and Im a 9w8 Sx/So ESFJ so compared to the typical ESFJ I am more reserved and passive than the typical ESFJ as I don't seek to actively influence with Fe but more keep things peaceful and light so to speak. Plus being Sx first I consider people more important than community and that combo of being 9 and Sx first can make me seem quasi INFP at times.
 

Stigmata

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
8,779
I've entertained the notion of being numerous other types, yet my current typing feels the most consistently correct.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
My normal typing is ENTJ 8w7 sx/sp (albeit I'm willing to entertain sp/sx). It all seamlessly fits and resonates.

But today, I'm trying on INFJ 4w3 so/sx because of a graveyard thread. After all, why not? It feels like a lovely fashion statement where MBTI type, core type and instinctual variants fit each other. As far as it fitting me, I'm willing to entertain the possibility, even though it's making me itchy in hard to scratch places.
 

Stigmata

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
8,779
Should I adopt it permanently?

God, yes.

You're the only one among us to resist the devilish whispers of Aux Fe, and claim dominion over the mythical powers of Ni which are necessary to carry this forum into its next era of great prosperity.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
God, yes.

You're the only one among us to resist the devilish whispers of Aux Fe, and claim dominion over the mythical powers of Ni which are necessary to carry this forum into its next era of great prosperity.
Imma Fe-less INFJ so that won't work. /enneatype 4
 
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
5,100
I can often describe my combinations as a storm wracked world orbiting a star that’s about to go super nova as it’s pulled towards the event horizon of a black hole.

Yes, there’s some conflict and contradiction at play. I can’t really break it down for you technically.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,053
MBTI Type
NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I type as 847 ENTP, Sx subtype.

I’ve given this enough study that I stand firmly behind all conclusions, although it’s taken me a long time to be able to come forward about it. I am not mistyped.

I don’t find that ENTP-8 grates upon itself overly. I’ve heard it said (among online amateurs, not amongst professionals who’ve studied both MBTI and enneagram who say the combination is not uncommon) that 8 core and ENTP are really contradictory. Why? Because NTs are “too intellectual” and “cerebral” and 8s are too “anti-intellectual” and “simple”.

I blow a giant raspberry towards that. If that’s not beneath the dignity of my username/avatar combo.

I find Ne has only ever been practical, oriented towards seeing the potential in others and in situations, useful in my having “vision”, and otherwise concocting schemes. Ti helps me understand “how things really work” and key places to strike for maximal impact. I fail to see how this is “too intellectual” or doesn’t accord with 8.

And, I am actually kind of anti-intellectual, in an “anti-ivory tower” sort of way. Being an ENTP in no way precludes that, it is an initiating and involved type.

Admittedly, having a 4-fix does kind of grate on core 8. These are opposite energy flows. If there’s such a thing as a “counterphobic 8” that habitually opens up, spills their guts and melts down emotionally (in interests of “the truth” or to effect change in others) despite the fact that there’s a fear of vulnerability…and still goes to some sort of embarrassing overwrought extreme (“larger than life” *snort*) in doing so…I mean, yes. I feel exactly opposite of 8, and it’s the damn 4. Or the sexual instinct. One of the two. One of the things that caused me years and years of typing confusion. Ugh.

It’s been said that 8 correlates with sx, but I disagree. I feel like 8 is very…self-pres. Both in the nature of the type as well as being the bias in many descriptions. Stony, unfeeling hardass always taking care of business and looking out for number one. And I have that quality to me, but also…well, you saw what I said above. Eights can’t submit to any authority, even God…and here I am longing for Divine Union. Eights are always in charge…and here I am like, Fuck the humans! I want no part of this! I’m going my own way!! Eights are so determined to build an empire and make money…and here I am a drifter at midlife, broke, alone, with psychiatric issues, no possibility of ever retiring…just so I could do what I wanted. (And fail at it too, I should add).

So yeah. You can see the tensions I hope. I don't always identify with descriptions.
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
I feel like being a combo consisting of high Ne and Fi, a 7w6, and being So dominant, can feel like a constant push and pull of maintaining an autonomy and being absolutely free to do as I please and think, but then coming back to relish the insight people have to share, the nuances and mental “high” social systems and gatherings can provide. I don’t solely need that stimulation as I also find a stimulation, albeit a different sort, from being alone and wandering solo on my own adventures.

In some ways, the two realms can coexist, but other times, they butt heads like rams during mating season. There are many subtle and relatively small inner conflicts that can occur when the two realms argue, but the biggest contradiction that stands out to me most prominently, must be the fact that social structure, the whole social “dance” (this is in hyperdrive at work and in smaller communities like this forum where it’s more obvious to see), people bending over backwards to appease others, people lying through their teeth to save face, people mending relationships as mediators, people doing good to serve more selfish purposes, and people doing good for more genuinely good motives...all of that is wildly obvious to me as I feel like I live within this abstract reality we call “perception”, and there is a balance to it, like a spider web. If something gets caught in it, the vibrations are felt, though, I don’t “see” or sense this exactly like a spiderweb, under tension, but more like ripples in a pond caused by not one or two sources, but many.


Everyone causes their own ripples, the supposed “good” and “bad” people (I personally don’t tend to classify people as such, they’re just human), and those ripples fan out, and butt up and mingle with the ripples from other sources. The contained body of water, the system I see in front of me, is in constant motion.


The beauty and darkness to seeing such things around me, is I am left with many opportunities to weave through and navigate fairly cleanly if I wanted to get exactly what I wanted, without any regard to those around me, but, I also maintain my position and ferry my movements based on values that I’ve learned and molded over the years by treading these waters for so long, being rocked and swayed left and right, by good people and bad. If I didn’t maintain these inner values and hold true to them, if I manipulated my way through these social systems to obtain my goals in the most efficient and of least resistance, then what sort of meaning would my life then hold? So what if I got what I want?


So, it might appear like I know exactly how to wade these waters while maintaining my integrity and such, but the tension comes with that cliche of devil and angel atop my shoulders, and trying to find that balance between doing what I need to, to achieve my goals, and what my responsibility is, as a fellow being on this planet to respect the boundaries and lives of those I encounter, and to not cause, or to limit undue harm or duress onto others.
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,170
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I feel like being a combo consisting of high Ne and Fi, a 7w6, and being So dominant, can feel like a constant push and pull of maintaining an autonomy and being absolutely free to do as I please and think, but then coming back to relish the insight people have to share, the nuances and mental “high” social systems and gatherings can provide. I don’t solely need that stimulation as I also find a stimulation, albeit a different sort, from being alone and wandering solo on my own adventures.

In some ways, the two realms can coexist, but other times, they butt heads like rams during mating season. There are many subtle and relatively small inner conflicts that can occur when the two realms argue, but the biggest contradiction that stands out to me most prominently, must be the fact that social structure, the whole social “dance” (this is in hyperdrive at work and in smaller communities like this forum where it’s more obvious to see), people bending over backwards to appease others, people lying through their teeth to save face, people mending relationships as mediators, people doing good to serve more selfish purposes, and people doing good for more genuinely good motives...all of that is wildly obvious to me as I feel like I live within this abstract reality we call “perception”, and there is a balance to it, like a spider web. If something gets caught in it, the vibrations are felt, though, I don’t “see” or sense this exactly like a spiderweb, under tension, but more like ripples in a pond caused by not one or two sources, but many.


Everyone causes their own ripples, the supposed “good” and “bad” people (I personally don’t tend to classify people as such, they’re just human), and those ripples fan out, and butt up and mingle with the ripples from other sources. The contained body of water, the system I see in front of me, is in constant motion.


The beauty and darkness to seeing such things around me, is I am left with many opportunities to weave through and navigate fairly cleanly if I wanted to get exactly what I wanted, without any regard to those around me, but, I also maintain my position and ferry my movements based on values that I’ve learned and molded over the years by treading these waters for so long, being rocked and swayed left and right, by good people and bad. If I didn’t maintain these inner values and hold true to them, if I manipulated my way through these social systems to obtain my goals in the most efficient and of least resistance, then what sort of meaning would my life then hold? So what if I got what I want?


So, it might appear like I know exactly how to wade these waters while maintaining my integrity and such, but the tension comes with that cliche of devil and angel atop my shoulders, and trying to find that balance between doing what I need to, to achieve my goals, and what my responsibility is, as a fellow being on this planet to respect the boundaries and lives of those I encounter, and to not cause, or to limit undue harm or duress onto others.

To make sure I understand properly, you attribute your ease of understanding the social web to you being an so-Dom? Do you think Ne plays any role there?
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,170
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
First of all, great thread, Dreamer.

I'm confident I'm an INFP, with strong Fi. I'm also confident that I'm an sx-dom, and most likely a 4w5, likely a 469 or 496. Looking back over my life, there has been a lot of conflict between Fi and the pull of sx-the need to connect intensely, which as an only shy child, a child who wanted to believe in romantic fairy tales, seemed easiest to fulfill with a romantic relationship. Of course, I have fulfilled it to a certain extent with some close friendships, and by pouring myself into different activities-doing my best in school, writing, drawing, music, collecting. But the interpersonal aspect and need has been very difficult. The romantic nature combined with sx makes for a lot of intensity, which can be offputting to others, chasing them away. That has made me feel more alone and unfulfilled, and the 4 nature was happy to take that loneliness, unhappiness, and depression, and run with it. Making it even more difficult to connect in the interpersonal realm.

The Fi means things have to be done the right way-the ethical way-the way that reflects my values. That means, sure, someone might be incredibly magnetic and attractive, but if he doesn't share key values, that's it, not going to happen. And the Fi and the 9 mean, if I get into a situation where I'm not fulfilled sx-wise, it may be difficult to extricate myself. The sx and the pie-in-the-sky optimism of Fi's Love-Can-Conquer-Any-Obstacles meant I pursued situations that may not have been the most realistic, the best suited, because I was not going to let some silly thing like practicality ruin anything. The Fi, Si, sx, and 4 have worked together to keep me pining for someone for long amounts of time.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,195
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Based off personal experience, and what sorts of things tend to run through your mind often enough to be noticed, do you personally think your particular typing arrangement (MBTI, Enneagram, Instinctual Variant) leave you at odds, internally conflicted at times? Or, do you feel it’s somewhere in the opposite direction, where your typing seems to run through you and express itself rather fluidly?

For example, I feel at times, being an ENFP, Type 7, and So dominant leaves me frustrated and conflicted inside. I will share my experience and how I personally feel the typings intermingle once I get the chance tonight. :)
I find INTJ and 5w6 to be mutually reinforcing, though I think the INTJ part pulls the 5 more in the direction of action than perhaps 5's of other types would be. I rarely let my desire to understand things from first principles interfere with taking concrete steps to reach goals, even if that means I need to return later to flesh out that understanding for future use. SP/SX stacking is already a bit of a contradiction, with SP reinforcing many classic 5 tendencies to be guarded and to observe from the sidelines, The 4 in my tritype seems to play into the SX part, though. All this means that, while my default is to keep people at a distance and share personal information very sparingly, on some level I long for those few people who will understand me for who I am inside, and when I do make such a connection with someone, the experience is unsurpassed.
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
To make sure I understand properly, you attribute your ease of understanding the social web to you being an so-Dom? Do you think Ne plays any role there?

Oh for sure! I’m not sure exactly which leads the other, perhaps Ne is the star here? Or, actually I think it follows a similar dynamic to how I personally view my Ne in relation to Fi. I tend to think of my Ne data collection as kind of like this motor that just constantly runs on overdrive, whether when I’m extroverting or introspecting, it’s constantly working, the lenses to my glasses. The Fi is what helps guide that motor and helps narrow things down a bit, like the prescription of those lenses. I’d still be able to see because I’m wearing glasses, but the Fi brings things into much more clarity for me. I think being So dom works in the same way. So dominance gives me that genre, or conntextual framework, that I then direct my Ne towards, maybe...haha. Like, in my post I mentioned that (just checked, ok actually I didn’t, whoops) so, the ripples I see within the social sphere, the unspoken hierarchies and structure, the nuances of it all, is something I can’t not see. It’s always evident to me. So if I go somewhere and find myself amongst a new group of people, it doesn’t take long for me to understand how the social dynamics work in that particular setting, without actively trying to figure that out, it’s like a background process I suppose. So, I think the So dominance is what allows me to absorb that social structure data unconsciously, and rather intuitively, but I think the Ne is what actually does all the work (that unconscious intuition)...essentially the So dominance is the context in which the Ne works...does that make sense? It feels like I sort of jumbled everything around when I tried to clarify it for you.
 

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
23,708
sx/so:
Feels like this sometimes.
 
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