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  1. #11
    Give me a fourth dot. The Tsarevich's Avatar
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    Hey I think the instincts are really hard. Most authors write a paragraph about each, if you're lucky. The three descriptions of each type often aren't insightful. When you go online, you get all sorts of contradictory speculations, and all sorts goofy stuff--eg, "I'm sx first cause I'm SO INTENSE"/"I'm soc last because I hate networking". Etc. I've been kicking mine around for 5-6 years or so and am still open to having someone who knows me and understands the enneagram in depth flip my understanding. However, I've managed to derive a few major principles as to how this works.

    - First, your dominant instinct is like...fish in water. Meaning it's your values system, it's what you naturally fixate on, it's where your attention goes...similar to your enneagram type. It can be hard to say, Hey what am I focusing on?--you've really got to think about this in some cases. It can be like with your inferior function in MBTI--a non-dominant instinct stands out so much from your overall perceptional background, you think it's the dominant one. Eg, I thought I was sp-first at first. And I'm...not.

    - Your dominant instinct is often a point of minor-suffering-to-outright-batshit-tormented-neurosis. Discomfort. You tend to have self-esteem and ego hung up on this area, and it's often an area of some struggle (similar to your last instinct, except you're obsessed with it). If you find yourself freaking out or drawing the line on something and you're not quite sure where the vehemence is coming from, chances are you're touching on the needs of your dominant instinct. It is a point of insecurity.

    - If you've had a lot of pain around your dominant instinct, you can sometimes front your secondary instinct to avoid having the first one hurt. Eg, an enneagram coach once asked me why I wore makeup as a teenager. And the fact was, I mean, I just don't know. I liked it. I didn't think it would make me more attractive...because it was like lipstick on a pig...I was so completely convinced I was undesirable...but I just liked it anyway. But because that felt too intimate and raw and painful to actually articulate to her, I just said, Oh, to rebel from my social peer group. Like a goth, right? Yep, cause I hated them. And she typed me as social-first...which I'm not, but I can't talk about the other stuff.

    - Your secondary isn't necessarily a lot of "fun". It's just an area you're perceptive of, without many of the hangups of the first. You can still be awkward or neurotic in it. Eg, I walk into a group and I relate to everyone as the "outcast" because of childhood wounds. I think people hate me. I assume I'm not invited. But, I mean, this stuff doesn't really impact my self-esteem or set me off in any way. I'm more detached from it. I'm not necessarily "good" at the social instinct (eg when people talk about making friends or networking...just NO), but I am still concerned with matters involving groups and humanity...eg, politics, organizations, the Greater Good, diplomacy, etc. I give this area a lot of attention and like to talk about it and know what others are currently up to.

    - The last isn't necessarily an area of unimportance, but it's something you cannot be assed to build your life around. Eg, I'm 35 and have no savings, no foundation, I'll never be able to retire, my (temporary) home is in shambles, etc. I don't really care, either. I mean obviously this is a matter of some concern for me and I'm kind of embarrassed to be 35 and this much of a loser, but my self-esteem is unimpacted by my failure to be a functional adult. I just cannot build my life around the acquisition of money, retirement, daily goods, and a stable home life. I just don't value this.

    - SX--isn't about the act of sex per se, or "relationships". It isn't about "intensity". It's about sexuality, broadly speaking--including often-unmentioned areas such as desirability, life force, creativity, deep exclusive bonds and/or chemistry with other people, and in a more metaphorical sense, divine union and the Beloved.

    SOC--isn't about having friends, hanging out, enjoying groups, networking, etc. It's about the web of interconnection, the bonds between all things, working together to survive, keeping current, and knowing roles (more than hierarchy)--who does what.

    SP--I don't really know any misconceptions, but I do think that it involves preserving oneself, not just in the short term, but long term. Sometimes "sacrificing for yourself" or "taking care of yourself" doesn't mean taking long bubble baths and indulging in chocolate cake, but the opposite. Saying no to yourself. Being your own parent. Doing the practical thing for long term survival instead of what you "want" to do.


    I hope someone finds that helpful. That's a nutshell recap of what I've learned in my years of study. A lot of this doesn't ever get talked about, but as near as I can tell, it's absolutely true. Good luck.
    *Need enneagram questionnaire?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post2218641
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Venus Rose's Avatar
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    I need these instincts (in order):
    sx,so,sp

    instincts that are damaged:
    all three

    instincts that trigger me when damaged:
    sx

    so only causes me unease, and some social anxiety, but it's not that bad.
    sp I have ignored so badly that due to trauma and such, it creeps up in my dreams in the form of mutilation, disease with skin peeling off and muscles eaten up, death where this guy dies and his eyes turn white because he is dead...a whole person being killed by a (hydraulic press? some kind of heavy machine that flattens/crushes objects) because he was already dying...etc. I see now that this was sending alarm into my mind that I am experiencing what is essentially psychological violence. I didn't realize it at the time. I do not watch horror movies as I don't care much for them, so there is no reason why these images would come up in my mind, unless they are trying to tell me something, specially considering the fact that they were all nightmares.

    Trauma caused to my sx affects my psychological integrity (sp) as well; I just didn't realize that that was the case since SP is so incredibly unconscious for me. I guess SO issues could also cause that, but nothing like that has happened yet, since I am not that bothered by soc issues that I might encounter.

  3. #13
    夕日無影 Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Personally- definitely based off want (or rather, value). Effort and effect comes after that. The effort comes based off the want, and the effect comes due to the efforts (or lack of efforts) that gets put in. I think digging into the why you do what you do helps in tying it back to a certain IV, but it can be difficult because so much of it comes as a 'duh, that's a given' and is done on autopilot. Fish can't see the water it swims in.

    I read that your second instinct is the one you use to achieve the first, and I can see that in me. No matter how proficient I am in the second IV and how much time and effort I put in it, if I realize / see that it comes at the cost of my main IV, it's gone- in other words, I don't value it for its own sake, but rather what it gets me. It's a medium, like how a car or bus takes you to some place you like- doesn't really mean you like the car (you may or may not) but you'd leave the bus / route if you realized it wasn't taking you where you wanted. I think this would be true for any combination of IV stackings.

    Once I had a better understanding of the instincts, determining my last IV was much too easy. I just simply didn't value it, and people pushing it on me reads to me like offering me garbage in exchange for my gold. Wow, get lost. I think this is also true of any instinctual combination.

  4. #14
    The Devil of TypoC EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tsarevich View Post
    - Your dominant instinct is often a point of minor-suffering-to-outright-batshit-tormented-neurosis. Discomfort. You tend to have self-esteem and ego hung up on this area, and it's often an area of some struggle (similar to your last instinct, except you're obsessed with it). If you find yourself freaking out or drawing the line on something and you're not quite sure where the vehemence is coming from, chances are you're touching on the needs of your dominant instinct. It is a point of insecurity.
    Firstly: this whole post is really good.

    Secondly: I typed myself incorrectly as sp-last for years, because I was simultaneously fixated on it and bad at prioritizing it. I was told not to value it, but I longed for it nonetheless, and I struggled with that tension. After all that time trying to disregard it, embracing it feels... luxurious.
    ”We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous.”

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/4w5/7w8 sp/so (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
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  5. #15
    Give me a fourth dot. The Tsarevich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Firstly: this whole post is really good.

    Secondly: I typed myself incorrectly as sp-last for years, because I was simultaneously fixated on it and bad at prioritizing it. I was told not to value it, but I longed for it nonetheless, and I struggled with that tension. After all that time trying to disregard it, embracing it feels... luxurious.
    Similar. I was fixated on the needs of my instinct while ignoring it, hiding it, or denying it. Hiding it because I thought it was weird. Denying it because it caused me too much pain and trouble. It's definitely possible to act against the dominant instinct, and that's what happened with me. It's amazing how clueless I can be around it while simultaneously being driven by it--figuring out that this is the case is one of the most liberating experiences you will ever have.
    *Need enneagram questionnaire?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post2218641
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  6. #16
    夕日無影 Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Reading the above posts, I wonder if how the main variant is denied / embraced depends on the enneatype?

  7. #17
    The Devil of TypoC EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Grey View Post
    Reading the above posts, I wonder if how the main variant is denied / embraced depends on the enneatype?
    With 1, I imagine it's like most things - if you come to the conclusion that it's right, then you embrace it. If not, then you deny it.
    ”We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous.”

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/4w5/7w8 sp/so (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #18
    夕日無影 Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    With 1, I imagine it's like most things - if you come to the conclusion that it's right, then you embrace it. If not, then you deny it.
    It is written in several descriptions of the primary variant that there is a bias with the first instinct, that it is what is 'correct', and it is thus taken for granted- "everyone does this". If it comes very naturally to the person of that variant, I'd think that deviations would come across as being told that 2 + 2 = 10, i.e automatically 'wrong'. How does ignoring it happen, and how were you able to tell finally that 'yes, this [my variant] is the right thing to do'?

  9. #19
    Amethyst's Queen ♚ Bismuth Blitz's Avatar
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    Want and effort I'd say. Effect kinda, but you can strive for something without being great at it. Another thing that helped me determine my IVs is how comfortable I am with each of them.


    I know I'm sx last because sx matters simply make me uncomfortable. Close relationships sound appealing at first cause I'm an introvert who wants to have a couple friends. But outside the romance realm, close relationships are tiring. There's just this certain vulnerability of close relationships that feels awkward. It's like a push and pull because my SO instinct wants to get to know everybody, their interests and backstories, but actually getting close with someone feels weird. Unless I'm obsessed with a show or am really invested a topic(like typology of course), I don't really crave that intensity that SX doms talk about.

    I'm a SP/SO, which was hard to decide on as my SP/SO feel equal to each other. I've settled on SP first for now as it feels like more of a need to me. SO, while it can be a need when I feel left out, usually feels like a want compared to SP and is more a playground area. I'm an inherently private person, I hoard, I try to focus on my health, because it makes me feel safe. My SO manifests in being interested in "peoply" things(like psychology and different cultures), memes, and going on this site.

    This is my own theory kind of; I feel like my instincts integrate and disintegrate like the numbers do. Like when I'm unhealthy I feel more clingy, while when I'm healthiest I'm more outgoing and interested in peopling while still loving my alone time.
    "Now let's all agree, to never be creative again..."

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  10. #20
    Saprophytic Aphrodite Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    I think once you get that it is, in fact, instinctual, it will be easier to see. You don't notice you are breathing until you remind yourself that you don't notice it.
    Perpetual mood


    "It is not the personality's task to tell the truth,
    but to seem to, try to, or try to seem to."


    Philip Trussell


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