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[Traditional Enneagram] Am I enneagram 2 o 9? I'd love if you help me, with some questions, to figure it out!

Jackobus

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
44
Enneagram
3w2
Hey guys, I finally acknowledged that I am an ENFJ after a lot of discussions with MBTI friends and self introspection... (even if in the socionics I think ESE is a better fit, but I don't really like that system so much)

So, so far now I thought I was an enneagram 9 but I', starting to doubt that self typing since I really relate with a lot of things of the enneagram 2...
Would you like to shed some light on it? I'd rather prefer be asked some questions since I really don't know how to explain all of the traits I have with the 9 and the 2, but I definitely am sure to have those in my tritype! I don't know my instinctual variants, honestly, that could make a difference I guess!
Thanks a lot for sharing, have a good week-end!
 

anime_nature

New member
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
39
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
469
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Me personally, I find Enneagrams to reflect more of what "Holy Idea", "Basic Fear and Desire", and "Temptation" you have as well as which Enneagram you retreat to in stress and which Enneagram you "move" to during growth, and characteristics and behaviors are an observation of the vast majority. That just might be me, though.

But to answer your question:

The Holy Idea for Type 2 would be Holy Will, while the Holy Idea for Type 9 would be Holy Love. But don't think that Type 9's are better than Type 2's because they want Love over Will. It's just the word choice; both have an equal amount of perks and flaws. But to translate: Our Holy Ideas are what we think of as a ideal life. Holy Will is the thought that a good life will present itself if we are selfless and caring. This causes Type 2's to surrender their needs and desires in hopes that they could get something good out of what they believe is right. Type 9's Holy Idea of Holy Love, however, is the thought that there would be universal love between others if there's no conflict. This causes Type 9's to retreat from conflict in hopes that they could get something good out of what they believe is right.

Basic Fear is a lot easier to understand. It is a fear the Enneagram Type has that drives the Temptation, and ties into their Basic Desires. Type 2's have the Basic Fear of being unloved. They are afraid that they cannot be loved or will never be loved, causing them to desire others' love and affection. This causes them to be self-sacrificing and manipulative, usually because many people have been taught this was the way to get love and affection. Type 9's have a Basic Fear of "separation". (Just think the opposite of cooperation. The word choice is a bit confusing... so sorry about that) They are afraid that others would "separate" or not get along, causing them to desire wholeness and peace. This causes them to avoid conflict and not be assertive, usually because they have been taught that this was the way to have wholeness and peace.

When in stress, many Enneagram Types will retreat to the negative parts of another Enneagram. This is how Nature helps us survive. In order to grow as a person, Enneagram Types would go to a Type that has good traits and perks contradicting their Basic Fear and Temptations. This isn't to say you become a different Enneagram in stress or growth. It just means that in stress, you take on the negative traits of a specific Enneagram Type while in growth, you take on the positive traits of a specific Enneagram Type. With Type 2's, they take on the negative traits of Type 8, such as trying to act tough to not get hurt or taking control just to gain control, in stress; when in growth, however, they take on the positive traits of Type 4, such as being more creative for themselves and more emotionally aware. With Type 9's, they take on the negative traits of Type 6, such as becoming anxious of possible - sometimes unlikely - scenarios and jump to conclusions, in stress; when in growth, however, they take on the positive traits of Type 3, such as being part of the group by bettering themselves instead of withdrawing and "fixing" the group overall and being more assertive.

There's also the fact that these two types are in completely different Triads and "Assertive-Withdrawal-Compliant" Triads. (There's no common name for this group for some reason.) Type 2 is in the Heart Triad, which means they have an "identity crisis" so to speak. They focus more on their feelings and how others think of themselves, which is seen in Type 2's when they become self-sacrificing and manipulative to make others think that they have the "caretaker" identity. They are also Compliant, focusing on society. Type 2's usually focus on the people, focusing on people's needs over their own. Type 9 is in the Gut Triad, which means they have an "environmental crisis" so to speak. They focus more on how they can help make an ideal world, which is seen in Type 9's when they become passive and avoid conflict to create an ideal world of a peaceful environment. They are also Withdrawn, focusing on "moving away" (It makes more sense once you dive into it) Type 9's usually focus on "moving away" from reality into their own little harmonious world.

Hope this helped! I'm sorry if you had to read a lot, but hey, you made it to the end! Thanks for taking the time to read my (mini) essay, and wish you the best in figuring out if you're a Type 9 or Type 2. :bye:
 

Jackobus

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
44
Enneagram
3w2
[MENTION=36946]anime_nature[/MENTION] sorry for the late reply, it was really exhaustive! Based on this, I feel I am closer to type 2.... it's true that, when i'm stressed, all the negative possibilites arise for me, but i feel the urge to take action rather than retreating in myself, and I'm very dependant on how others perceive me, probably I am an enneagram 2 based on your explanation!
Very clear and explicative, thanks a lot for that!
And yeah, I'm pretty sure i'm ENFJ, but, aside from that, manipulative moments rarely happened to me, maybe because I feel strongly that manipulating others is really bad! But yeah, maybe I have the tendency to make others think that my idea is good, I rarely am contradicted because I know how to send what I want to say to others xD
How can i be sure if i'm 2w1 or 2w3?
Thanks buddy
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
What were you like as a kid? Do you feel like you're easily replaced or not? Since you're an ENFJ, have you considered that you may be a 3w2 with a heavy 2 wing that has disintegrated to a 9? Disintegration is basically taking on negative aspects of that type.
 

Jackobus

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
44
Enneagram
3w2
What were you like as a kid? Do you feel like you're easily replaced or not? Since you're an ENFJ, have you considered that you may be a 3w2 with a heavy 2 wing that has disintegrated to a 9? Disintegration is basically taking on negative aspects of that type.

Hello, thanks for the reply! Yeah for a time I thought I was a 3 en, but I was never quite sure about it! Maybe should I try another questionnaire? Or do you have some more tips on how to understand it?
Anyway, as a kid I was very extroverted and gentle with everyone, always polite and I liked (and so now i do) to help people around, but I was usually quite sure about my ideas and stubborn with them...
And yes, i am kinda scared of being replaced, that's why i love to help others out, also because I like being seen as the "good guy around the niegborhood" xD
Thanks a lot
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Hello, thanks for the reply! Yeah for a time I thought I was a 3 en, but I was never quite sure about it! Maybe should I try another questionnaire? Or do you have some more tips on how to understand it?
Anyway, as a kid I was very extroverted and gentle with everyone, always polite and I liked (and so now i do) to help people around, but I was usually quite sure about my ideas and stubborn with them...
And yes, i am kinda scared of being replaced, that's why i love to help others out, also because I like being seen as the "good guy around the niegborhood" xD
Thanks a lot

You defo sound like a 2. Probably a 2w3 since you considered 3 and i've read that your wing can disintegrate too sometimes. I'm curious as to how you thought 9?
 

Jackobus

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
44
Enneagram
3w2
You defo sound like a 2. Probably a 2w3 since you considered 3 and i've read that your wing can disintegrate too sometimes. I'm curious as to how you thought 9?

Thnak you for the help! What are the main differences between 2w3 or 3w2? I consider both possibilities after your very insightful comment!

Well, I thought 9 mostly because I generally step aside from conflicts and always take a step back in arguments, hardly ever expressing my views (but maybe because lately I was very stressed, I'm becoming more direct and "assertive" now that I feel better) because I generally value harmony and like counseling people, generally acting as a catalyzer for conflicts and following acts of peacekeeping when I can, but I think is true that sometimes I can appear, or also be, in fact, a little manipulative (always with a good will), and also because I'm generally I'm very easy and chill guy, I thought those are some traits of the 9!
What do you think about it?
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Well, I thought 9 mostly because I generally step aside from conflicts and always take a step back in arguments, hardly ever expressing my views (but maybe because lately I was very stressed, I'm becoming more direct and "assertive" now that I feel better) because I generally value harmony and like counseling people, generally acting as a catalyzer for conflicts and following acts of peacekeeping when I can, but I think is true that sometimes I can appear, or also be, in fact, a little manipulative (always with a good will), and also because I'm generally I'm very easy and chill guy, I thought those are some traits of the 9!
What do you think about it?

Le sigh, is that how people are making 9s sound now? No wonder so many mistype as us.

Thnak you for the help! What are the main differences between 2w3 or 3w2? I consider both possibilities after your very insightful comment!

I personally get more of a 2 energy from you but alas here are the differences:bhhb.jpg
 
Last edited:

Jackobus

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
44
Enneagram
3w2
Le sigh, is that how people are making 9s sound now? No wonder so many mistype as us.

Thnak you for the help! What are the main differences between 2w3 or 3w2? I consider both possibilities after your very insightful comment!

I personally get more of a 2 energy from you but alas here are the differences:View attachment 20036

Yeah there are a lot of negative stereotypes about 9 unfortunately, i have a friend of mine who is a 9 and he's an awesme guy, but we really have a lot of differences!
thank yu very much! 2w3 makes the most sense now after your clarification, it's super accurate!
I owe you one :D
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yeah there are a lot of negative stereotypes about 9 unfortunately, i have a friend of mine who is a 9 and he's an awesme guy, but we really have a lot of differences!
thank yu very much! 2w3 makes the most sense now after your clarification, it's super accurate!
I owe you one :D

I'd like to add that there is a theory that you can disintegrate to your wing's disintegration type.
 

TheCheeseBurgerKing

New member
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
473
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
8
[MENTION=35740]Jackobus[/MENTION]

Whats your birth date? A lot of times enneagram relates to/is the same as your numerology.
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
[MENTION=35740]Jackobus[/MENTION]

Whats your birth date? A lot of times enneagram relates to/is the same as your numerology.

[MENTION=35740]Jackobus[/MENTION] Enneagram isn't correlated to numerology in the slightest.
 

Jackobus

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
44
Enneagram
3w2
[MENTION=35740]Jackobus[/MENTION]

Whats your birth date? A lot of times enneagram relates to/is the same as your numerology.

Hmm It's 29.09.1995 so many 9 and a 2 lol
I don't know if it could be correlated or not, tell me your thoughts about it
 

Norexan

Quetzalcoatl
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Messages
2,222
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sp
Hey guys, I finally acknowledged that I am an ENFJ after a lot of discussions with MBTI friends and self introspection... (even if in the socionics I think ESE is a better fit, but I don't really like that system so much)

ESE is ESFJ. ;)
 

TheCheeseBurgerKing

New member
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Jan 5, 2013
Messages
473
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
8
Hmm It's 29.09.1995 so many 9 and a 2 lol
I don't know if it could be correlated or not, tell me your thoughts about it
That's mean your primary number is 2 in numerology.

Birthday Number 29

Most people with a 29th birthday are quite kind, in my experience.

In my experience, 9s naturally go with the flow. 2s want those around them to genuinely enjoy themselves.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I see you've settled on 2. The easiest way to pick E2 from E9 is Holy Will.

9s find it very easy (too easy) to let things follow whatever course they’re on, they trust that things will work out as they should or that they'll be able to deal with it if they don’t.

2s do not. They expect that things will not follow the path they should unless they make it happen, so they get involved to force things in a certain direction. This is how people can view 2s as overbearing, over-involved, or manipulative. It's a belief that they know what is best for someone else and they need to make sure they follow the correct path. For the 2, the motivations are good natured.

How this looks: The 2 will reach out to others, especially if they think they need their help, they'll make the connection, while a 9 will be happy to help if they're in the same space but they're not likely to be the one initiating as pressure/obligation is unpleasant. If you had a friend who was having a tough time and your thought process in deciding if you should call them included not knowing if you 'feel' like it, or questioning if you'd bother them, effectively talking yourself out of it even if you believe you should, it's 9ish, if you don't consider not calling them, they're your friend and they need you now, it's 2ish.
 

Jackobus

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
44
Enneagram
3w2
I see you've settled on 2. The easiest way to pick E2 from E9 is Holy Will.

9s find it very easy (too easy) to let things follow whatever course they’re on, they trust that things will work out as they should or that they'll be able to deal with it if they don’t.

2s do not. They expect that things will not follow the path they should unless they make it happen, so they get involved to force things in a certain direction. This is how people can view 2s as overbearing, over-involved, or manipulative. It's a belief that they know what is best for someone else and they need to make sure they follow the correct path. For the 2, the motivations are good natured.

How this looks: The 2 will reach out to others, especially if they think they need their help, they'll make the connection, while a 9 will be happy to help if they're in the same space but they're not likely to be the one initiating as pressure/obligation is unpleasant. If you had a friend who was having a tough time and your thought process in deciding if you should call them included not knowing if you 'feel' like it, or questioning if you'd bother them, effectively talking yourself out of it even if you believe you should, it's 9ish, if you don't consider not calling them, they're your friend and they need you now, it's 2ish.

Yeah 2 makes a lot more sense, i prefer to make things happen than let them go on without any form of control...
I lately have been with some ENFJs, we share the same objectives, but our approaches are completely opposite, so I think Fe dom couldn't fit very much for me, rather some form of T with quite an emphasis on the F functions, I still find it hard to believe, but I relate much more to my ESTP father than my ENFP mother, personally, but 2w3 is higly accurate for myself.

[MENTION=34350]Norexan[/MENTION] Yeah, I know, but I don't relate to MBTI's ESFJ definition at all, still have some work to do about myself, I'm very relaxed right now, and my T function is much more accentuated lately, so, what if I probably was delving into my lower F function in this time of stress?
Also, I generally have noticed that romantic relationships are my weak point, since all of my Feeling come out uncontrolled while I live a relation.

Just thinking out loud here, I'm straying you guys away from the original topic... I definitely guess that 2w3 is a good fit, but I think i have both 6 and 9 in my tritype! What about the instinctual variants? I really don't know veyr much about them, how can I identify them accurately? Thanks for the help
 
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