[Traditional Enneagram] The Instinctual Type Bias in Enneagram Descriptions

[OrangeAppled]

Enneagram descriptions often lean heavily towards a particular instinctual subtype, and they can even lean towards one wing (even when it discusses the wings & their impact on the core type).

This is some of the bias I've detected so far...

1s - self-pres, 9 wing
Presented as austere and nitpicky. 2 wingers can seem downright warm and the other subtypes may not be as picky about little details.

2s - social, 1 wing
The helper portrait is this specific subtype and rather misleading for other 2s. I don't even think this is the most common 2, so I don't know how it became the most common description out there.

3s - social, 2 wing
The plastic achiever who is all about impressing people & gaining status. The sexual 3 with a 4 wing is often very arty and can come across as highly individual (ie think David Bowie). Self-pres 3s are all about autonomy and not needing others, being counter vanity on the surface. Their sense of values comes from being self-sufficient. This may make them seem like 8s (more raw & less concerned with opinions of others) or 6s (may seem earthier or security seeking) or 1s (being "model" people but not showy).

4s - social / sexual, 3 wing
The melodramatic whiny 4 is a so/sx 4, and the excessively dramatic variety has a 3 wing. The sp is counter type - suffering in silence, especially if a 5 wing type; more burdened by shame but with a veneer of cool indifference that drives away what they want. I'm an sp 4 and still identify pretty easily with 4 though. Supposedly many sx 4s struggle to see their type in 4 profiles, but the profiles emphasize competitiveness and dramatic outbursts quite a bit, perhaps too much if you are not an sx 4.

5s - self-pres, 6 wing
Described as hermitic and excessively scientific or technical in the most dry way, the 5 is usually painted as a self-pres type with a 6 wing. This can confuse 5s who are artier or more abstract people and not the stereotype of a basement dwelling nerd.

6s - self-pres / social, 7 wing
This is a common type for, say, an SFJ. Will leave many confused if they are not the dutiful, warm skeptic who cozies up to people out of fear. There may be emphasis on social 6s as rather uptight, paranoid people who sound like they enjoy paperwork. Occasionally it's offset with a bit about cp 6s, which usually sounds like a daredevil ISTP or something. Obviously much too narrow...

7s - self-pres / sexual, 6 wing
The hedonistic 7 is spoken of most. This is someone who pursue concrete indulgence. The more ideal-oriented social 7 is spoken of very little, and the sexual 7 is maybe hinted at with pictures of 7s pursuing projects/people and then abandoning them once the shine wears off (very Ne, IMO). The 8 wing is often left out, which contrasts with upbeat, friendly 7w6s as much cooler, IMO. Most 7 descriptions sound like ESFPs.

8s - self-pres, 9 wing
Your basic playground bully; may grow up to be a PE teacher. Or sometimes described is the sx 8w7 who sounds they are on a cocaine binge. Some social 8 descriptions sound more like 3s (see self-pres 3) and they probably are. The social 8 shows more connection to 2 - more selfless protector than an independent leader.

9s - self-pres, social 1 wing
Sometimes we hear about sp 9w8s who sound like they flitter life away in a semi-comatose state of not caring + eating. The sexual 9 with all their whimsy & spiritual insight is spoken of very little, and hence, they tend to mistype as 4s. The 1 wing is often emphasized in the 9s diplomatic leanings or penchant for evil/good dichotomies.

Thoughts? Additions? Disagreements?

 

[GavinElster]

Those are indeed the typical portraits you see.

I guess the minor thing I'd say is that I tend to allow for 3 versions of the types, 2 with wings and one "classic." It seems richer/true to reality too.

So for instance, the sunny 7 you mention, I don't call a 7w6 or 7w8 -- just a 7. If 7 involves an anxiety about not consuming enough, 7w6 adds doubt to what constitutes enough and/or whether there will be disappointment lurking at the end of a pursuit, and in a sense this is a more anxious 7.

Similarly, I don't view the austere 1 as the 1w9, I see that as the classic 1 -- although I understand if you have just 2 categories, maybe it makes sense to put the 1w9 as the austere 1, 9 being withdrawn and having potential for detachment and all that.
I view the 1w9 as basically what enneagram institute says (not necessarily because it says it, just that this point it happens to get right in my understanding) -- an idealist, more than a reformer or corrector. For whom pragmatic reality isn't as it must be, and who draws from the dreaminess of 9, but with less escapism, and more firmly theorizing what the ideal is. Possibly may be prone more to reject getting one's soul dirty to provoke change (so e.g. viewing politics with disdain because, while it can have practical good effects, in principle it may be seen as the wrong way to do things).
The escapism of the 9/stubbornness going with that adds to the uncompromising style of E1.

I haven't decided if the stereotypical 6 is a "classic" 6 or a 6w7, but yeah it might be a 6w7. I think both are pretty common.

 

[kirsten]

Interesting. Just reinforces the need to always study more and not assume you know more than you do. The Enneatypes are incredibly complex and multifaceted. Stereotypes don't even come close to describing what Enneatypes really are.

 

[thoughtlost]

Yeah, I think 9s mistype easily if they are not this nature-loving, quiet, shy, mouse-like person who doesn't feel any intense emotion and who don't notice or have much anger, then that's when they mistype as something else. I think sexual 9s definitely mistype as 4s or see themselves as sexual 2s at least.

I really want to see better descriptions of sexual people in general, I'd like to see it better described for the heart types.

 

[Population: 1]

When I typed as a 5 my 4 was only under it by a point so I could be a 4w5. Maybe. Anyway yes the 5 is far too clinical and disciplined to fit me unless tempered by a 4 wing. I'm definitely lost in abstract ideas a lot and big into sci-fi and fantasy though I do enjoy history and science, especially astronomy. I'm definitely known for withdrawing into hermit mode at times confounding and sometimes inadvertently hurting friends in the process.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Supposedly many sx 4s struggle to see their type in 4 profiles, but the profiles emphasize competitiveness and dramatic outbursts quite a bit, perhaps too much if you are not an sx 4.

Many people here don't see me as a core 4. I have accepted that. I do get why people don't think I am - I seem outgoing and engaging here. However, this is the online world, and I think it's more helpful to look at the motivations behind my behavior. I am performing more than I am engaging. There is a strong element of competition to it that took me awhile to fully accept. Sx 4s also have an undercurrent of anger that presents like a seething judgement/envy of others. It's not always easy to identify that it is coming from a place of envy, but it is. Sx 4s, especially Sx/So, are actually quite adept at engaging others, but only on their terms. This is not a constant, particularly for those with a 5-wing like myself. I consider myself more of an "on/off" person, but more often than not, I am "off," especially in person. Furthermore, it's painful how awkward I can be, even around people I have known for years. There is a clear outsider quality to 4s. We are overly aware of our "defects" and fear that people will find those in us and affirm that we are lesser.

Sx 4 deals with this through competition. I deal with this through trying to impress others with my wit, and oftentimes, my own shortcomings are the subject of my joking. It's actually kind of weird how transparent 4s are with their defects. Sx 4 likes to throw personal pieces of themselves out there in a bold manner and see how others handle it. This is how Sx 4s test other people. It's less to do with trust (which is what the 6 does), and more a plea for acceptance. Additionally, I think it was really hard for me to acknowledge my elitist tendencies and moments of compensatory superiority, as well as the competition, envy, and anger that the Sx 4 is known for. I also have historically had a tendency to dramatize even the smallest things and have been known for my moodiness and emotional outbursts (more when I was young, but I do still struggle with reasonable emotional regulation and sometimes wonder how people can even deal with me).

The difference between 4 and 6 reactivity is that 4 is reacting from within, and 6 is reacting to the outside world. There can be a "showy" quality to some of the reactions of 4s, as if the reaction itself is less sincere and more an act for the sake of attention. Other 4 reactions are rather melancholy, coming from a place of deep hurt and sorrow. Sx 4s with a 6 can appear rather 6-ish or even 8-ish. 6 Sx/So can look really 4-ish too. When it boils down to it though, the 4 is not going to care about being dutiful or be as good at being loyal (outside of romantic relationships), nor will they be overly focused on rules, expectations, or figures of authority or groups with which they can belong. 6s on the other hand will be more proactive within their relationships and will be scanning the environment for possible threats. 6s want to know where they belong so that they can be safe and accepted and comforted. 4s want the same thing, but they want safety from themselves as opposed to safety from the outside world. Both 4 and 6 Sx find their place within romantic relationships, but 4 struggles with being content with what they have due to their tendency to constantly compare what they have to what they want. 4 Sx is a hot and cold lover, loving you fiercely one minute and the next wondering why they are with you and if there is someone else out there better suited for them.

Unhealthy Sx 4s can be downright explosive - not someone you want to share your life with because you'll never be good enough. I would imagine a lot of people suffering from Histrionic, Borderline, and Narcissistic Personality Disorders are core 4s with an Sx variant, cycling between feelings of inferiority and superiority; the classic "drama queen." This would be much more marked for those with a 3-wing; 5-wings would prefer withdrawing for the sake of saving face.

 

[misfortuneteller]

I agreed until you said that 8w9 is the stereotype for 8s.

Sometimes we hear about sp 9w8s who sound like they flitter life away in a semi-comatose state of not caring + eating.

This is totally me.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Well this is embarrassing.

 

[Galena]

Identifying more easily with descriptions of 4 than with actual other 4s I met online was actually my problem, but now I've individuated too. Still, it's even easier than ever to see the match. The sp type as I now know it better is the least fit of the three sorts. The so type was an elephant in the closet for quite a while.

 

[LucieCat]

I agree that 6 descriptions are more geared to SJ types if we look at the MBTI correlation. However, I'm not sure if the descriptions skew towards 6w7 sp/so as that's my type and I often feel a heavy degree of disconnect with 6 descriptions. I feel like social first is more of how 6s are described

Also, I don't think "following someone out of fear" is a good way to describe 6 either. Anxiety and fear are similar terms, but I think there's a clear, visceral difference.

I once read a description of sp/so 6s that was spot on for me. It can be found at this link Instincts | Dave's Enneagram

I've read another really good one but can't seem to find it at the moment.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I agree that 6 descriptions are more geared to SJ types if we look at the MBTI correlation. However, I'm not sure if the descriptions skew towards 6w7 sp/so as that's my type and I often feel a heavy degree of disconnect with 6 descriptions. I feel like social first is more of how 6s are described

Also, I don't think "following someone out of fear" is a good way to describe 6 either. Anxiety and fear are similar terms, but I think there's a clear, visceral difference.

I once read a description of sp/so 6s that was spot on for me. It can be found at this link Instincts | Dave's Enneagram

I've read another really good one but can't seem to find it at the moment.

To be fair, all of the enneagram types do indeed revolve specifically around fear.

 

[misfortuneteller]

However, I'm not sure if the descriptions skew towards 6w7 sp/so as that's my type and I often feel a heavy degree of disconnect with 6 descriptions. I feel like social first is more of how 6s are described

This because you're an ENFP. The 6w7 descriptions are geared towards ESFJs and ESFPs.

 

[Qlip]

...

4s - social / sexual, 3 wing
The melodramatic whiny 4 is a so/sx 4, and the excessively dramatic variety has a 3 wing. The sp is counter type - suffering in silence, especially if a 5 wing type; more burdened by shame but with a veneer of cool indifference that drives away what they want. I'm an sp 4 and still identify pretty easily with 4 though. Supposedly many sx 4s struggle to see their type in 4 profiles, but the profiles emphasize competitiveness and dramatic outbursts quite a bit, perhaps too much if you are not an sx 4.

...
Thoughts? Additions? Disagreements?

I miss your presence, OrangeAppled.

Yes, agreed, being a 4 sp, it's very obvious to me that 4 expressions have a huge dynamic range based on instinct. Being a counter type, there's actually a strange phenomenon that I have trouble even identifying 4-ish aspects of myself, I subconsciously subsume envy, averting from consciously experiencing it often. By the bog standard 4 descriptions, there'd be no way for me really to identify my type.

 

[cascadeco]

I miss your presence, OrangeAppled.

Yes, agreed, being a 4 sp, it's very obvious to me that 4 expressions have a huge dynamic range based on instinct. Being a counter type, there's actually a strange phenomenon that I have trouble even identifying 4-ish aspects of myself, I subconsciously subsume envy, averting from consciously experiencing it often. By the bog standard 4 descriptions, there'd be no way for me really to identify my type.

For my first several years on here I thought I was a 5 (there's no way I'm a 5 btw), and very briefly a 1, as I read the 4 descriptions and thought they were way too dramatic and 'emo' (outwardly) to describe me. However other than outward expressions/the drama element in some of the generic descriptions, the core fears and issues of 4 fit me perfectly.

 

[brainheart]

well, I was introduced to the enneagram by a friend who said I was "such a four", so I definitely took that into consideration when I looked at it. However, I really relate to five, and if I were to go by subtype descriptions, especially Naranjo's, I would peg myself as a sx/sp 5. But as [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] said, the core issues, fears, and childhood pattern of four are so obviously me, even now when I read them I find myself holding my breath (while the five is a 'yeah, I can kind of see that' sort of reaction).

I think most four descriptions are more tailored to 4w3s, and I think most descriptions in all of typology can be confusing because usually the author has a particular person or particular people in mind. I think the Naranjo and Chestnut subtype descriptions are the most abysmal and confusing when it comes to this. I think their descriptions can really lead to mistypes, not to mention a superficial understanding of the enneagram.

I like what [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] said about one. My mom is a 1w2 and she is very warm, understanding, energetic, positive, and fun- unless something goes against her principles, then the one comes out in all of its repressive glory. She reminds me of Pope Francis- a similar deal.

 

[punkermit]

I read that most people lean toward a wing off their core, therefore someone with a pure core type is rare. Also balanced wings could mean 2 equally strong wings or 2 equally weak wings. Maybe that's part of the problem with type descriptions - very few unmistakably pure types to draw on. But yeah, I see what you are saying.

That's also why I generally prefer to see the full score sheet to get a full picture of the person, preferably with MBTI and Sonic types too. Because for example a 1w9 5w4 4w5 INTJ with high 8 and 7 and very low 6 will come off ways different from a 1w9 5w4 4w5 ISTJ with high 6 and very low 7 and 8.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yes, all e5 profiles are very Sp heavy. What is logical but alternatives are possible and likely to be mistyped due to the stereotype.


Personally I often don't even look like a 5 at face value, but I know that this is what I am in the end.


583 - The Achiever. Materialistic, ambitious and domineering leader. Reserved, secretive, but exude self confidence. 5w6 (counterphobic), SO, SP. A more ambitious, materialistic and dominant Five, who has a talent for leadership and a desire for achievement. More competitive and assertive than others, these Fives manage to get out of their shells more often to experience life in a more direct manner and obtain a position of power and success. Although still reserved and secretive, they exude a certain amount of self-confidence and strength which prevents their true vulnerabilities from being guessed by others (a huge fear of this tritype). Poised, ambitious, domineering and territorial