[Traditional Enneagram] From life or from mind?

[Bardsandwarriors]

I keep seeing Enneagram descriptions with quick fixes, such as "A type four should learn to see things more positively", or "A type eight should learn to control their anger."

As if all of the ennea types are merely states of mind - aberrations of perception. I can see that some people get trapped into ways of thinking which are based on the past, and no longer apply. They can be snapped or trained out of it.

But in my experience of Life, The Universe and Everything, most people's mental states are a direct result of their "condition of life". If a four has a dim view of their future, it is usually because their future is dim. If they ignore that and force themselves to be happy, they risk becoming disconnected from reality. If an eight gets angry, it is usually because other people have shaped that person's life and they are trying to stop it happening with more and more force. If they are trained to be less angry, they lose the power to shape their own life.

To what extent do you think these "quick fixes" are wrong and patronising, and should be rewritten?

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

well my view about enneagram and other personality boxings are they're just a guide for why people behave in a certain way.. It's actually a WHY.. not merely a HOW should people live their life..
Although some people i noticed, boxed themselves into this types that they try to fit their lives based on what is said on the type results. Which i think is wrong..

Example is: i have an infp chat and she said something like, she's stressed about thinking about her future.. Then i said, if it stresses you, don't think about it.. Just focus on what's right in front of you.. But she said, "it's infp thing"

Well, in order to live a good life free from stress and being able to use your full potential, you should be willing to change all the bad things that can limit you from achieving your best.

It's not an excuse to say, "it's because this is who i am"

Because if you already accepted you're like that, and you're fine being stressed and shit, then you won't grow as a person.

Same with enneagram 7's forget about your problems and just yolo! I actually did that.. But, it's wrong. It didn't make me a better person.

Yes i can forget my problems but ofcourse i should learn from it..

Life is all about learning.. Not ignoring problems.. It's about being a better person...not trying to seek for an approval in a group like "losers club" oh we're losers so it's okay for me to be a loser.. Because it's what the club is.. Being a loser.. XD

Ofcourse we have our own mind.. You're actually right, our behavior and attitude was the product of our past experiences.. It molds us to become the person who we are now..

Psychology typing is just a guide to predict someone behavior. Or you're own behavior as well. It's just a mere guide of WHY. But that shouldn't be a guide on How to live life..

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

And yeah to answer your question, it's from LiFE. XD and mind too. Because what you read, what you watch, what you hear, what you put on your mind become you.

 

[Bardsandwarriors]

I see what you are saying koto. But I mean it in a much realler way again. For instance, your infp might be in a position where she MUST think about the future, to avert some great disaster, eg. a health problem killing her. Or, perhaps because the future constantly holds traps, in her life, which she has to avoid, eg. family members who cause trouble. But she doesn't have good skills for looking into the future, and often gets it wrong - leading to one poor decision after another. So it stresses her, and motivates her to talk about that stress, and to look for ways of seeing the future better.

Perhaps in the future she will become very good at predicting the future, because her life depends on it.

Not just a mental state based on past experiences. But an ongoing "condition of life" which causes a serious problem. The problem then causes her to develop in particular ways to deal with it.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

I see what you are saying koto. But I mean it in a much realler way again. For instance, your infp might be in a position where she MUST think about the future, to avert some great disaster, eg. a health problem killing her. Or, perhaps because the future constantly holds traps, in her life, which she has to avoid, eg. family members who cause trouble. But she doesn't have good skills for looking into the future, and often gets it wrong - leading to one poor decision after another. So it stresses her, and motivates her to talk about that stress, and to look for ways of seeing the future better.

Perhaps in the future she will become very good at predicting the future, because her life depends on it.

Not just a mental state based on past experiences. But an ongoing "condition of life" which causes a serious problem. The problem then causes her to develop in particular ways to deal with it.

Okay i see. You got a point there.. But if you cannot do something about it, why worry?

Sorry I'm just applying Cognitive behavioral therapy. XD

Like my point is this:

Problem: result of your medical exam. You might have cancer or not. The result will come after 3 days

Attitude 1: you worry during that 3 day course.

Attitude 2: you don't worry because you will worry when your result is positive for cancer.

Result: after 3 days, you learned you don't have cancer.

So attitude 2 saved you from 3 days stress, and you look younger. XD

 

[á´…eparted]

The point of the "quick fixes" are to give the most succinct and frequent example of how to improve as possible. People wrongly assume such statements must be taken literally and it is always the right thing to do. That's simply not the case. People are complicated, and just because you're a type with typical neuroses doesn't mean that doing what enneagram suggests to fix it will help. It might, and it very well is a piece of the puzzle, but it's by no means the core to what's going on.

Enneagram has suggestions and directions. It's still up to the individual to explore the root to why they are they way they are and do self-exploration to learn and figure out how to address those problems. Enneagram will tell you where frequent problems lie, but it won't give you the details.

All in all, don't take personality theories too seriously. They're guiding tools, not answers.

 

[Bardsandwarriors]

The point of the "quick fixes" are to give the most succinct and frequent example of how to improve as possible. People wrongly assume such statements must be taken literally and it is always the right thing to do. That's simply not the case. People are complicated, and just because you're a type with typical neuroses doesn't mean that doing what enneagram suggests to fix it will help. It might, and it very well is a piece of the puzzle, but it's by no means the core to what's going on.

Enneagram has suggestions and directions. It's still up to the individual to explore the root to why they are they way they are and do self-exploration to learn and figure out how to address those problems. Enneagram will tell you where frequent problems lie, but it won't give you the details.

All in all, don't take personality theories too seriously. They're guiding tools, not answers.

I think that is a good answer, thanks. Seeing those quick fixes all over the internet bugs me, and I wondered if anyone else felt the same way. I should probably just think "inferior analysis" to them, and move on