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[Traditional Enneagram] Seeing our own 'type' in others

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
5,393
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
729
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I've noticed it when the Wild E7 is engaging in or being criticized for self-damaging 7 behavior. I recently realized a coworker was probably a 7 when I heard someone say that he'd been overwhelmed by his new position of authority and increased responsibilities, so he was going out and partying a LOT. I also saw him at work trying to replace his actual duties with being funny or likeable. He got very pouty when he felt had to work too much or had to miss out on something because of work. Basically classic 7 escapist things. And the reason I saw it so clearly was because I could relate to him. I was not in the same place as him at the time, but when people talked shit, I couldn't help but think this could easily be me.
 

Luv Deluxe

Step into my office.
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
441
MBTI Type
NiSe
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I've noticed it when the Wild E7 is engaging in or being criticized for self-damaging 7 behavior. I recently realized a coworker was probably a 7 when I heard someone say that he'd been overwhelmed by his new position of authority and increased responsibilities, so he was going out and partying a LOT. I also saw him at work trying to replace his actual duties with being funny or likeable. He got very pouty when he felt had to work too much or had to miss out on something because of work. Basically classic 7 escapist things. And the reason I saw it so clearly was because I could relate to him. I was not in the same place as him at the time, but when people talked shit, I couldn't help but think this could easily be me.

Do you think it was the responsibilities of his work, or the nature of the work itself? Asking because I think climbing the ladder in an occupation you're not totally pleased with can lead to a special kind of claustrophobia. I dunno. Sorry if that's not a very clear question! I guess I see a lot of dialogue about 7s avoiding obligation at all costs, but if the job is fun/gives pleasure, I don't think that's always true.

I do relate to those behaviors, though. A few years ago I had some problems with a former friend (we'd gotten into a big fight and there was much pain and suffering, etc.). She ran into me at a downtown venue by chance and mistook my presence for proof of narcissism, I guess.

Me: I was really sad, actually, I just wanted to go out and get out of my head.
Her: Didn't look too sad to me.
Me: Well, yeah. I was drunk. That was the point.
Her: I dunno, that's a pretty strange way to act if you're truly upset. Most people stay home when they're depressed. I stay home. What kind of person doesn't?
Me: ......
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
625
I don't think of it in these terms, it is more if they share a commonality with me and if it can be measured emotionally in their subconscious behavior. People reveal themselves in little unguarded moments that is how I know we are the same even if we are the opposite 'type'
 

hjgbujhghg

I am
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
3,326
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
This is funny, because when it comes to dealing with people in general, it's not their behavior, language or anyhting concrete that would strike me a certain type, or even a certain character of the person. I usually just "feel" who the person is after about a second of seeing them....I don't know why, or how, it just works and usually I am right about them.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
I've been thinking about these questions and while there really is a form of recognition I'm not sure I could describe when it comes to MBTI...seeing my own enneagram type in others seems pretty straightforward to me.


For me it's all in the wrong turns. Each type has them...points within the critical thinking process where 'turning right' is the obvious direction to go in. Everyone knows that to arrive at the most reasonable explanation/answer they need to turn right. <-When turning right puts one of the 9 core fears in our path though...type eX will (often) reveal themselves by taking a hard left.

^^Watching 7s do this is especially "uh oh spaghettiOs"

Imgur-785de6.png
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
For me it's all in the wrong turns. Each type has them...points within the critical thinking process where 'turning right' is the obvious direction to go in. Everyone knows that to arrive at the most reasonable explanation/answer they need to turn right. <-When turning right puts one of the 9 core fears in our path though...type eX will (often) reveal themselves by taking a hard left.
^ Interesting.

Can't think of any e1 examples ... which is probably indicative of something, bc I can't imagine being faced with an obviously correct path that would involve me becoming defective or corrupted. If it corrupts me, then it's wrong, right? :doh:
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
^ Interesting.

Can't think of any e1 examples ... which is probably indicative of something, bc I can't imagine being faced with an obviously correct path that would involve me becoming defective or corrupted. If it corrupts me, then it's wrong, right? :doh:


Omg I love this post (I need to organize myself and maybe start a blog just of posts that hit on things I want to examine more or I want others to think about for me and then just give me the answer).

I think each type has a bit of a trap like this as well. Like my e1 sister has no trouble believing she is right...and everyone else on the planet saying "um, are you sure?" is wrong. Whereas e7 narcissism can make it so I'm witnessing a stupid behavior out of someone else...and if I'm not careful I can think "thank goodness I never do that"...when in reality it might be something I do all the time
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I don't have a fantastic sense of enneagram, though I can say I am not sure I have come across that many e4's irl. I know that none of my close friends are e4, and I don't even think any of my coworkers are.

I have a much easier time recognizing instincts, and find them more interesting in many ways.

Edit: I also think what [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] says is really valuable/true -- we as our own enneagram type will easily be able to rationalize or *get stuck* in a particular pattern or mindset, without thinking we are, whereas people of other types will look at us / the situation and see we're stuck or are making the wrong call. [I know much of my earlier years I was very immersed in more typical problem areas for 4's, of shame, self-fulfilling prophecy/exclusion/'different-ness' (not in an 'I'm awesome!' way, which I think is more of a false indicator of e4, but an 'I suck'/something's wrong with me way], and so on, and really believed it to be true]
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,426
I've been thinking about these questions and while there really is a form of recognition I'm not sure I could describe when it comes to MBTI...seeing my own enneagram type in others seems pretty straightforward to me.


For me it's all in the wrong turns. Each type has them...points within the critical thinking process where 'turning right' is the obvious direction to go in. Everyone knows that to arrive at the most reasonable explanation/answer they need to turn right. <-When turning right puts one of the 9 core fears in our path though...type eX will (often) reveal themselves by taking a hard left.

^^Watching 7s do this is especially "uh oh spaghettiOs"

Imgur-785de6.png

 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,038
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think some is an E4s when they have a sense of personal originality and authenticity that isn't for the purpose of impressing others (unless there is some E3 as well). They each have a different vibe that is offset from the norm and find some way to express it, although the nature of the expression is also varied. I tend to associate it with people who are looking to be exactly who they are in a way that doesn't compare notes with others. There is an autonomy about E4s that is different from detached autonomy. I love people who have an original way of thinking and being and find their presence refreshing and like a new discovery. Meeting one feels like seeing a new landscape I haven't seen before, and I tend to feel a natural desire to hear how they see the world. :)
 

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
5,393
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Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Do you think it was the responsibilities of his work, or the nature of the work itself? Asking because I think climbing the ladder in an occupation you're not totally pleased with can lead to a special kind of claustrophobia. I dunno. Sorry if that's not a very clear question! I guess I see a lot of dialogue about 7s avoiding obligation at all costs, but if the job is fun/gives pleasure, I don't think that's always true.

I do relate to those behaviors, though. A few years ago I had some problems with a former friend (we'd gotten into a big fight and there was much pain and suffering, etc.). She ran into me at a downtown venue by chance and mistook my presence for proof of narcissism, I guess.

Me: I was really sad, actually, I just wanted to go out and get out of my head.
Her: Didn't look too sad to me.
Me: Well, yeah. I was drunk. That was the point.
Her: I dunno, that's a pretty strange way to act if you're truly upset. Most people stay home when they're depressed. I stay home. What kind of person doesn't?
Me: ......

Ugh! I can relate very much to your experience with your friend. It's a shit feeling. Do you also get the thing where people just assume you're fine all the time? I guess it's half the same. Just like because it looks like fun, you must be so happy and not need any emotional support.

Anyway, yeah he hated the work. He's got a million half-baked directions in his life and found himself with a load of responsibilities he didn't like and didn't feel capable of by way of sticking around the same job for a while and being an endearing yes-man. Really he does comedy and voiceovers and magic. But I'm sure he feels like he has to be grown up and real, and he's struggling. He's since stepped down and I think he's a lot happier for it.
 

Luv Deluxe

Step into my office.
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
441
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NiSe
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7w6
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sx/sp
Ugh! I can relate very much to your experience with your friend. It's a shit feeling. Do you also get the thing where people just assume you're fine all the time? I guess it's half the same. Just like because it looks like fun, you must be so happy and not need any emotional support.

Anyway, yeah he hated the work. He's got a million half-baked directions in his life and found himself with a load of responsibilities he didn't like and didn't feel capable of by way of sticking around the same job for a while and being an endearing yes-man. Really he does comedy and voiceovers and magic. But I'm sure he feels like he has to be grown up and real, and he's struggling. He's since stepped down and I think he's a lot happier for it.

Good for him! So many people get caught up in chasing external definitions of success that they lose sight of what actually makes them happy. Seems like your coworker figured out what he really wanted (or didn't want) and was honest with himself; no doubt he made a change for the better. It takes some people years to come to that conclusion.

Also, YES. I'm pretty intense, but there seems to be a widespread perception that I'm always easygoing, happy, straight up lucky in life, or even "fearless," hahaha.

Sometimes it's to the point where I feel like I'm not taken seriously when I do confide in others or show vulnerability. The same former friend, an E1 (albeit an average-unhealthy E1), had social anxiety problems and severe self-criticism/perfectionism issues. I always did my very best to encourage her, lift her up, give her all the support in the world because I really did believe she was skilled and capable and beautiful.

We just couldn't sustain a healthy balance. She wasn't in a good place, and while I tried to be there for her (ultimately getting shut out), she wasn't able to be there for me when I needed her too. I think she saw me as so confident and fun-loving that I didn't need any help, especially since good things always seemed to happen to me (I'm pretty opportunistic, but she had a jealous streak). We have different kinds of anxiety, but because I hide mine so well, she didn't seem to have any patience for me whenever I felt manic or edgy. From her perspective, I couldn't possibly know what it felt like.

That's kind of an extreme example, but yeah. Shit's gonna haunt me until I'm dead.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
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May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
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6w7
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sx
Since I'm a 6w7 sx/so and CP on top of that, I usually look for people who were "popular" in an unconventional way at some point (eccentricity or people who conformed in non-conformity or people who had oppositional defiance issues in their youth) ...I think it can be difficult to confuse people like me with 4s, because you'll see a lot of goths, hippies, etc who seem like they're trying to be "individuals" by being covered in tattoos or wearing black lipstick or going on rambling soul quests who are actually CP 6w7 SX because you'll eventually see they actually take a lot of comfort in intensely identifying with that GROUP instead of being completely unique. It's the idea of being a part of the conterphobic or oppositional group, and it's not always political, but yeah you can see this in a lot of political activists who join communities or form cliques around Bernie Sanders, veganism, or in the case of my boyfriend from high school, whom I believe to be a different MBTI type but the same enneagram, he's always been a very "likeable" bad boy, he's covered in tattoos, and he's always in a band, but his identity involves belonging to those groups not being above or elitist or completely unique from others. And he will randomly bust out with some political stuff when you least expect it, and he actually tends to make a great point when he does, because he usually appears to be more interested in things that are creative or social. I could be wrong though, but only slightly, that he's a 7w6 SX/SO which is why he has that escapist veneer constantly (while I'm constantly cynical and concerned but then randomly an escape artist).

Idk. I suspect it a great deal in people who are unconventional but in a diplomatic rather than elitist way, who formed their identity by fighting the good fight, defending the underdog, or being popular among eccentric or unconventional groups (in high school you would think of this as the skaters/punks/artsy kids rather than the preppy kids, in adulthood it could take a political shape, or involve belonging to adult sub-groups like hipsters or rock-a-billies or horror movie people, in which you'll also find a great number of 4s, but they're a little different).

Speaking of horror movies, my ex who I believe was a 3w4 showed his 4 wing by being very elitist about his movies, he'd always created this 4-ish wing by thinking it made him special, unique or more interesting than other people (then when he was depressed saying it made him weird or nerdy)...while for me, horror movies were never a source of elitism, it was more like I belonged with a loose collection of people who understand dark things, it's fun to bond with people about it (in fact it's part of what made me bond with my ex. The shared identity, not the separation) and it's funny how I treasured this thing we SHARED and he would occasionally defensive that he was more of the "expert" and I let him have that, because he worked hard at it, and I didn't really care, because that's not what I formed my unique identity around, it's something I use to bond (6) unconventionally (CP) and escape from reality (w7) because I'm intense and fascinated by sex/death/mental illness/paranormal phenomenon (SX).

I actually freak out when I'm part of a best friendship, or couple and we can't share at least one deep intense sameness. The sameness is important to me, if that sounds weird, idk.

Or with vegans. I think you can tell a 4 vegan by how they're like "this is how I live my life, I don't care if you're not vegan, because I obviously more compassionate and intelligent than you, and aren't the evangelical vegans annoying af?" And I am more like "how can we get more people to be vegan or at least vegetarian to benefit humanity as a whole" and I while I don't think certain methods are effective, I respect evangelical vegans, even when I think they're wrong, it will work on someone. My unique identity isn't wrapped up in being vegan, but my CP tendencies give me the strength to defy cultural norms consistently so that I don't struggle with the social aspect. So with vegans, I look more for people who approach it as I do, who seem very concerned about humanity and have an intense sense of purpose, rather than an elitist attitude about it. And as more people become vegan, the 4s will go raw or something extremely difficult to protect their unique vegan identity.

So sometimes it's hard, especially since my heart fix is 4w3, but that's how I see CP 6w7 SX/SO and separate them from 4s.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,839
^ Interesting.

Can't think of any e1 examples ... which is probably indicative of something, bc I can't imagine being faced with an obviously correct path that would involve me becoming defective or corrupted. If it corrupts me, then it's wrong, right? :doh:

Something like that.

Therefore I often wonder about what I see and others obviously don't. Or is it perhaps the other way around.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It is really hard to get close to 4s, so I feel like I get to see what it is like for people to try and get to know me, and I see how the 4 appears to be disinterested and to in a way reject others.

I spot a 4 by someone who seems sort of elegantly aloof with this layer of sadness. They look really self-contained. They usually do have a very individual air about them, often in their style of dress, but it is not in-your-face like some imagine. When you talk to them, they can get really animated though, and they have their own way of phrasing things (usually with a romantic angle).

It's hard to describe, but yes, I know I am dealing with another 4 by their vibes, and there is this weird mutual understanding as far as something being "similar" about us. It is hard to know much more because part of what makes them identifiable as 4s makes them really hard to reach. I often never determine their Jungian type for this reason, although most seem most likely to be IxFP or INFJ.
 

erg

New member
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Oct 7, 2016
Messages
291
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None
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4w3
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sx/sp
There's this 4w3 INFJ (but she socionics ESE-Fe) girl that works in this supermarket that I sometimes go. What first struck me about her was her uncanny resemblance to Nausicaa. She has a quality that makes it seem like she is out of this world... like she is waiting for something to happen. I wonder if that's how I come across.
 

Yuurei

Noncompliant
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Sep 29, 2016
Messages
4,506
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ENTJ
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8w7
What characteristics or behavior in others leads you to believe you are dealing with someone of your own enneatype?

Are there ways in which 'mind reading' (better implicit understanding of what someone means, less misunderstanding of intentions; see: Theory of mind) happens effortlessly?

When I don 't have to "town down" my natural self or boundless energy to keep from intimidating/overwhelming them.
 
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