[Traditional Enneagram] Can a 2 be a "2" Without The Desire To Give?

[Starry]

[MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION]

I'm not sure if it's the descriptions or the people's interpretations of them, but they seem to emphasize the "other" like a 2 only wants things from others. To me this falls in the 3-6-9 attachment triad, it isn't 2. 2s have pride in not needing things from others, or not having needs at all. Things I get from other people tend to not make me happy, in fact, the opposite happens, the more I get from others the worse I feel about myself. It's hard to think of it in terms of transactions because my self image depends on my own denial that I'm getting anything in return. So there's that.

So I guess what's most annoying is that there is potentially a hidden neediness in 2s that gets misrepresented as the outward neediness that other types have, completely missing the point of what 2s are.

Thanks for this Haven. I guess all I would want to know from here is how you as a 2 would answer the OPs question....?

What you wrote above does not contradict my understanding of e2 in spite of me greatly anticipating it would based on the reactions in this thread (you didn't directly question anything I wrote but Z Buck did.) And I'm wondering if the two of you are missing the implication written into the OPs question.

For example... If someone asked me about an e7 that was "super interested in all that is new and was focused on the future" <-I couldn't tell you jack squat about this individual's level of awareness, entrancement or health. Why? Because possessing an eye for the "new and unfolding" is not only one of our natural gifts/talents...it is also something many e7s use in an unhealthy way in an effort to dance around and avoid our core fears...do you see?

If someone asked me about an e7 that had no interest in the new and emerging...now I know something is "off" and it is that "offness" that will be the primary focus for me when providing an explanation for why this may occur. Does it mean the person is automatically a mistyped e7? Not by a long shot. But whereas in the previous example I couldn't tell you what state that e7 was in...here I know there's some sort of issue/conflict taking place.

We are not talking about a healthy, aware e2 in this thread. Due to the very nature of the OPs question...we are talking about an entranced e2 if we are talking about an e2 at all.

 

[Dreamer]

Haven't been able to touch this thread this whole week, but as I had hoped, I do have some time tonight to have it to myself and to take the time to reflect on things. Super hard to dig deep into one's psyche when you have so much other stuff going on at the same time. Taking the opportunity to head to the beach under the stars. It really is one of the best ways to let my mind wander

Love what you all had to say though up to this point, but please feel free to continue throwing out ideas! I shall be mulling over things while taking in new information as it comes.

Thanks guys!

 

[Dreamer]

Without giving too much away just yet (Some thoughts are popping to mind as I do laundry) do 2s have a desire for emotional connection? Well, I feel every person has at least a basic need for this of course, but do they give in order to seek closeness with those they give to? I think I do seek an emotional bond with someone, and a deep one at that, so perhaps I am friendly and open towards others in an attempt to try and fill any emotional voids in my life?

Edit: I must've changed this post like three times already. I'm really just thinking out loud here, and I'd rather not post all these comments that lead nowhere.

 

[Elfboy]

unhealthy Sexual 2s are manipulative, sociopathic sluts, unhealthy Social 2s are ambitious tyrants and unhealthy Self-Preservation 2s are narcissistic, spoiled brats, so yes, definitely.

 

[Dreamer]

Type 2 ENFPs

Type 2 with a 1 wing: 14%
Type 2 with a 3 wing: 86%

A sizeable number of ENFPs identified themselves as Enneagram 2s. Though this Enneagram type is most heavily correlated with the extroverted feeling function, it follows that an ENFP who has adopted ‘helping others’ as one of their primary morals would identify as this type. Both ENFPs and Type 2s are characterized by their people-oriented nature, their compassion for others, their desire for close relationships and their advocacy for those who are disadvantaged.

Type 2 ENFPs are likely to be particularly in touch with their introverted feeling function and they may identify as highly sensitive people or empaths. These ENFPs are deeply in tune with the feelings of those around them and may often find themselves taking on the burdens of others as their own. For type 2 ENFPs, the development of extroverted thinking will be particularly useful in helping them set boundaries and managing their sense of empathy. These ENFPs may be mistaken for ENFJs by others (as their helpful nature mimics extroverted feeling) but are more likely to misidentify themselves as INFPs as they are so deeply in touch with their introverted feeling function.

-Pulled this from Thought Catalog and while I still have trouble identifying how I give to others and on a deeper level (if I do, then why?), the part that stood out to me is that others may view this personality combo as an Fe dom, while the ENFP would probably see themselves as an INFP since they feel so strongly in touch with their Fi. I do highly identify with Fi and deeply in touch with my feelings, thinking I could be INFP here and there, and it is also true, that only about three years ago, I realized I had to set some real boundaries for myself in the number of those I helped and empathized with, since it is so draining to me if I let it go too far.

 

[Dreamer]

So I'm coming to the conclusion that yes, I am a 2, or, at least have it in my tritype. How much of a 2 am I though, and in which placement within my tritype I do not yet know. But it is true, I seek that emotional connection with people, and by being who I am (whatever it is that people see of me), it's as if I leave the door as wide open as possible to promote that emotional connection I am after. This would certainly correlate (I think?) why the first emotion I tend to experience when I'm alone for too long is loneliness and can often lead to thoughts of worthlessness. Almost as if subconsciously, I am questioning why no one would want to be around me and that then spirals into nitpicking everything about what I see wrong in myself. I never made the connections between these thoughts before, and I think this is potentially the link between them all because these tend to be my most recurring thoughts when I'm down in the dumps. In reality, it's of my own doing though as I can tend to isolate myself more than I should at times, and if I AM feeling lonely, it's because I'm not giving myself a healthy balance between introspection and extroversion. On the flip side, if I extrovert too much, that's also when I feel as though I am experiencing a "split" within myself as described in my video on introversion/extroversion. From this person having all this fun and excitement, and this quiet, reflective side of me being left behind. It's also, not a fun place to be.

Moral of the story, find what works best for you to stay mentally and emotionally healthy, keep that internal balance, and take the necessary actions externally, to maintain it.

Thank you [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], for guiding me in this direction. I hope you know, what good you do as well

So as it stands, I'm 72x, 27x, x27, whatever, I'll figure out the rest.