[Traditional Enneagram] ENFJ with enneagram 5, is that possible?

[geedoenfj]

[MENTION=26281]geedoenfj[/MENTION]

Why do you Type yourself as F rather than T?

I have a strong Fe but some how refined Fe, I am emotional and have typically Fe domain expressiveness which is really hard to overlook or deny, but yet I don't buy emotional approach in discussions and ideas, I am more interested in finding the evidence and discovering the world and fascinated by the idea that there's so much more beyond my knowledge and recognition, if you're interested, you may take a look at this post I wrote earlier

Well I don't know if this would provide more clarification, however these are the characters that I was often told that I resemble..
1. Betty Boop.. Specially people who has known me since childhood, my ESTP cousin often tell me that I get cartoonish at times..
2. Patcha from "The Emperor's New Groove", this is by far my favorite movie, and I can relate a lot to Patcha, except that I am more suspicious and cautious than him..

3. Hermoine Granger from Harry Potter, I was told I sound like her about 3 times or so

When I asked my friends why do you think I resemble Hermoine from Harry Potter (because I never took the time and think of how I am percieved by others, sometimes I feel more living inside my head with my thoughts and feelings) their reply was that I am analytical, critical and domineering like her, I also have leadership skills, even those who don't like me are gathering around me in defficult times waiting for my directions, and I am very much know what motivates people and bring the best out of them and have the warmth and caring nature..

 

[Pionart]

Ethos is an appeal to ethics, and it is a means of convincing someone of the character or credibility of the persuader. Pathos is an appeal to emotion, and is a way of convincing an audience of an argument by creating an emotional response. Logos is an appeal to logic, and is a way of persuading an audience by reason.

You seem to prefer Logos over Ethos, and say that you are "critical and domineering... [and] have leadership skills... [people gather] around me in difficult times waiting for my directions".

Why would you be Fe dominant, rather than Te dominant?

 

[á´…eparted]

I have a strong Fe but some how refined Fe, I am emotional and have typically Fe domain expressiveness which is really hard to overlook or deny, but yet I don't buy emotional approach in discussions and ideas, I am more interested in finding the evidence and discovering the world and fascinated by the idea that there's so much more beyond my knowledge and recognition, if you're interested, you may take a look at this post I wrote earlier


When I asked my friends why do you think I resemble Hermoine from Harry Potter (because I never took the time and think of how I am percieved by others, sometimes I feel more living inside my head with my thoughts and feelings) their reply was that I am analytical, critical and domineering like her, I also have leadership skills, even those who don't like me are gathering around me in defficult times waiting for my directions, and I am very much know what motivates people and bring the best out of them and have the warmth and caring nature..

I could potentially see you as a 1, though I admit I don't have a strong enough impression of you to say so. Though, I have noticed we tend to agree on a lot of things (specifically mentalities and ways of going about things) and I have always atributed it to both being ENFJ). What I do know of you though, I think 1 might be worth exploring (and the fact that you referenced Hermoine, a known 1w2). It's not uncommon for 6 and 1 to be confused as they look pretty similar on the surface. But if you peel back one layer deeper there are some pretty vast differences. To sort between the two you sort of need to dig in and figure out what your core motivations are, and at the end of the day what drives you.

For 6's, the core drive is largely fear based around uncertainty and a sense of never having foundation to call home. That foundation could be physical, a person, morals, etc. and is often why 6's have a strong relationship with authority (either being very pro or anti). They feel relaxed when they feel secure, protected, and like all their ducks are in a row. I'm not all that versed in 6's like I am with my own type, but [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] seems to be, and she has quite the good thread on 6's running currently.

For 1's, the core drive is largely perfectionism based. It's similar to 6 in there is a sense of uncertainty and fear that there is not a foundation, but for a 1 that is fixed by doing everything right, being self-sufficient, and striving for perfection. It's very different from 6's because 1's will create their own foundation no problem, and lack the push-pull relationship with authority.1's feel relaxed when things are right. 1's always have an ever present sense of restrainment, which the individual can be shockingly blind to (I was for a very long time). 6's rather lack the capacity to self-strain constantly. For an Fe dom this might be a bit tricky to see, but it's a lot of "oh, I can't do this, and I can't do that, because that will result in the expression of some feeling/emotion/action that isn't right or appropriate", and that leads to a lot of internal tension and anger for a 1 because they know how something can/should be but must self restrain and therefore can't. It doesn't seem like anger per-say, but it is. [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] is another great resource on 1-ness and could likely explain things that I may have missed, and give a more so perspective on it (since you identify as so/sx like her).

I think for ENFJ's in particular differentiating between 6 and 1 (if the individual is one of them) will be very difficult, due to how Fe processes the world.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I could potentially see you as a 1, though I admit I don't have a strong enough impression of you to say so. Though, I have noticed we tend to agree on a lot of things (specifically mentalities and ways of going about things) and I have always atributed it to both being ENFJ). What I do know of you though, I think 1 might be worth exploring (and the fact that you referenced Hermoine, a known 1w2). It's not uncommon for 6 and 1 to be confused as they look pretty similar on the surface. But if you peel back one layer deeper there are some pretty vast differences. To sort between the two you sort of need to dig in and figure out what your core motivations are, and at the end of the day what drives you.

For 6's, the core drive is largely fear based around uncertainty and a sense of never having foundation to call home. That foundation could be physical, a person, morals, etc. and is often why 6's have a strong relationship with authority (either being very pro or anti). They feel relaxed when they feel secure, protected, and like all their ducks are in a row. I'm not all that versed in 6's like I am with my own type, but [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] seems to be, and she has quite the good thread on 6's running currently.

For 1's, the core drive is largely perfectionism based. It's similar to 6 in there is a sense of uncertainty and fear that there is not a foundation, but for a 1 that is fixed by doing everything right, being self-sufficient, and striving for perfection. It's very different from 6's because 1's will create their own foundation no problem, and lack the push-pull relationship with authority.1's feel relaxed when things are right. 1's always have an ever present sense of restrainment, which the individual can be shockingly blind to (I was for a very long time). 6's rather lack the capacity to self-strain constantly. For an Fe dom this might be a bit tricky to see, but it's a lot of "oh, I can't do this, and I can't do that, because that will result in the expression of some feeling/emotion/action that isn't right or appropriate", and that leads to a lot of internal tension and anger for a 1 because they know how something can/should be but must self restrain and therefore can't. It doesn't seem like anger per-say, but it is. [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] is another great resource on 1-ness and could likely explain things that I may have missed, and give a more so perspective on it (since you identify as so/sx like her).

I think for ENFJ's in particular differentiating between 6 and 1 (if the individual is one of them) will be very difficult, due to how Fe processes the world.

I just want to say that she doesn't strike me as 1 anywhere on the forum. She is just too "playful" to be 1.

 

[á´…eparted]

I just want to say that she doesn't strike me as 1 anywhere on the forum. She is just too "playful" to be 1.

Put me in the right situation and I am a total chaotic clown and my friends will want to tie me to the furniture . This weekend I went camping with my research group and I was told multiple time "NO!" when I said I wanted to stand on the innertube being towed by the speed boat cause I thought it would be fun if I fell off and "psh, safety. I don't need no stinkin' safety! It's time for fun!".

Regardless, I am open to it. 1 is a very classically Te and Si oriented type, and can have odd presentations in Fe types.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Put me in the right situation and I am a total chaotic clown and my friends will want to tie me to the furniture . This weekend I went camping with my research group and I was told multiple time "NO!" when I said I wanted to stand on the innertube being towed by the speed boat cause I thought it would be fun if I fell off and "psh, safety. I don't need no stinkin' safety! It's time for fun!".

Regardless, I am open to it. 1 is a very classically Te and Si oriented type, and can have odd presentations in Fe types.

To put it differently you are both ENFJs and I simply don't see you as people who share MBTI and enneagram. As a matter of fact I am secretly wondering is she is head types for some time since I had ESFJ 6w7 grandmother ... and vibes are pretty similar. Plus I hooked up with ENFJ 6 once but it didn't work out ... again very similar vibe.


(in the case someone is wondering why I am all over the thread)

 

[geedoenfj]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] Oh my God I will burry myself I will return to read more into your posts later, primrely I don't find myself to be action oriented, or a typically into (to do) list, I am not that much energetic, I find you in the video more energetic while I am more playful and suspecious..
However, I will be digging more inside my soul, I'm sure the true geedo is hiding somewhere

 

[geedoenfj]

(in the case someone is wondering why I am all over the thread)

Maybe because you are caring to help somebody? A lady in distress? You sweet INTJ

Ps: don't be angry at me, I am just trying to provoke your nerves.. Though your analysis hit me off as the most accurate so far

 

[Virtual ghost]

Maybe because you are caring to help somebody? A lady in distress? You sweet INTJ

Ps: don't be angry at me, I am just trying to provoke your nerves.. Though your analysis hit me off as the most accurate so far

Nah, you redeemed yourself with the bolded part.

The thing is I see in you something pretty similar to the 2 already mentioned Fe doms. Both looks like 2s at the face value but if you scratch the surface you get very different picture.

In a way 6w7 is prefect fit for the types that I suggested for you: 3 is desintegration, 6 is core, 7 is wing and 9 is growth.

 

[geedoenfj]

You seem to prefer Logos over Ethos, and say that you are "critical and domineering... [and] have leadership skills... [people gather] around me in difficult times waiting for my directions".

Why would you be Fe dominant, rather than Te dominant?

I don't think ethics have to do with type, it depends more on the person, and I think ethics are more important than logic, morals and values are illogical but yet are more important to me and the world than logic.
However I will clarify more about why do I think I am a feeler rather than thinker..
I easily affected by emotions of others, I am the kind of person who remembers a certain emotional situation and my tears are just running, I am the one who watches the movie and cry with the characters (I usually hide myself somewhere trying to not let others see my tears, but I don't always succeed with hiding) I always put myself in the recieving end to see how it feels like, I can get feelings of others and feel they're somehow reflected on me, I usually hide in my shell in the world that I created inside my head to rest for a little bit from the cruelty of the outside world..
But at the same time, feelings are not valid unless you build them on tangible reality right? I mean you don't let others manipulate you emotionally because they want to sell you a certain rationality, you don't want to be emotionally involved with something then discover you based that in illusions, I (often) base my system on doubts and suspension, I was more certain and assertive to some level when I was younger, but still suspecion,cautiousness, and uncertainty draws the general line that I walk on, I always look for more opinions and more facts or ways of percieving the problem with different lights..

 

[Pionart]

I usually hide myself somewhere trying to not let others see my tears, but I don't always succeed with hiding

Fi

There are multiple ways to understand the term "ethics". On the one hand, yes it goes beyond type, however "feeling" tends to fit better with a different meaning of ethics, a more specific one... feeling is hard to quite pinpoint what it is, like values, emotions, harmony. Things like that.

Reflecting emotions in yourself sounds more Fi. A T type can be powerfully emotionally affected, too. It sounds like you are Te+Fi, to me.

 

[Pionart]

I will make a suggestion of ENTJ Type 8, disintegration to Type 5 at the present time.

Would this fit?

 

[geedoenfj]

I will make a suggestion of ENTJ Type 8, disintegration to Type 5 at the present time.

Would this fit?

My INFP sister laugh at me when she see that, she has more control on her tears even though I can see from her face that she is affected..
I just find more of your conclusions based on stereotypes anyways, I refer much more to ENFJ than ENTJ with the description, videos etc. and as an ENFJ I do have tendencies of 8 no matter how nice and shy I might appear, there are some situations that needs a quick intervention and descipline

 

[Pionart]

My INFP sister laugh at me when she see that, she has more control on her tears even though I can see from her face that she is affected..
I just find more of your conclusions based on stereotypes anyways, I refer much more to ENFJ than ENTJ with the description, videos etc. and as an ENFJ I do have tendencies of 8 no matter how nice and shy I might appear, there are some situations that needs a quick intervention and descipline

Well, yeah???

Of course feelers have more emotional control, lol.

Like, who can control their physical co-ordination better, an Se dominant or Se inferior?

 

[geedoenfj]

Well, yeah???

Of course feelers have more emotional control, lol.

Like, who can control their physical co-ordination better, an Se dominant or Se inferior?

Thank you Legion for your response.
So you think ENTJs are more emotionally expressive than ENFJs? You think F users are rigid and T users are drama queens?! We are actors, we are all about facial expressions and emotions, let me put it this way, I can be unsure about any Ennea type but never unsure about being ENFJ, if I was ENTJ and relate to it somehow, I will say it and embrace that fact but I don't relate to the description, and I know some NTJs and can sense the difference even compared with more expressive ones of them.
We do have brains and intelligence even though we use inferior Ti, we are not delicate flowers and sweet creatures all the time, there are some much more intelligent and intellectual ENFJs than myself in the forum like Hard, FutureInProgress, Searchingforpeace, Kheledon etc. and I can so much relate to all of them..

 

[Pionart]

Thank you Legion for your response.
So you think ENTJs are more emotionally expressive than ENFJs? You think F users are rigid and T users are drama queens?! We are actors, we are all about facial expressions and emotions, let me put it this way, I can be unsure about any Ennea type but never unsure about being ENFJ, if I was ENTJ and relate to it somehow, I will say it and embrace that fact but I don't relate to the description, and I know some NTJs and can sense the difference even compared with more expressive ones of them.
We do have brains and intelligence even though we use inferior Ti, we are not delicate flowers and sweet creatures all the time, there are some much more intelligent ENFJs than myself in the forum like Hard, FutureInProgress, Searchingforpeace, Kheledon etc. and I can so much relate to all of them..

Alright, it could just be stereotypes then, it's just that you were saying things that I had read in descriptions for different functions.

I was not suggesting that ENTJs would be more emotionally expressive, however I thought that Feelers had more emotional control, and you mentioned about emotional control.

 

[geedoenfj]

Alright, it could just be stereotypes then, it's just that you were saying things that I had read in descriptions for different functions.

I was not suggesting that ENTJs would be more emotionally expressive, however I thought that Feelers had more emotional control, and you mentioned about emotional control.

It's ok Legion, your thoughts are most welcome my friend

 

[Pionart]

It's ok Legion, your thoughts are most welcome my friend

Even after years of making mistakes constantly, I still feel uneasy about posting information that is probably incorrect. >.<

My aim is to hopefully help things converge to the true answer, or at least test my own understanding to improve it.

 

[geedoenfj]

Even after years of making mistakes constantly, I still feel uneasy about posting information that is probably incorrect. >.<

My aim is to hopefully help things converge to the true answer, or at least test my own understanding to improve it.

Aww never stop it Legion, never feel bad about posting anything here, your opinions are most welcome, in fact they get me to think more in other ways of myself, never hesitate to post anything that might be informative in anyway possible, and I want you to know that I appreciate everything you said and I am grateful to you ^_^

 

[Pionart]

Aww never stop it Legion, never feel bad about posting anything here, your opinions are most welcome, in fact they get me to think more in other ways of myself, never hesitate to post anything that might be informative in anyway possible, and I want you to know that I appreciate everything you said and I am grateful to you ^_^

Thank you very much!! ^_^